OT: Horns back in the Top 10 thanks to Jay Norvell...

[JMISASANO]

Originally posted by BillyRay:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

OU coaches that do lackluster jobs elsewhere NEVER get hired in Austin.

Just ask Josh Heupel, Bruce Kittle, James Patton and Jackie Shipp.

Some could credibly make the argument that a WR position coach at Texas is a higher profile job with more pay and city life than a WR position coach at OU. Just ask Barry Switzer what he thinks of the HC job in Austin. You'll puke orange.

But, you know more than Strong, Switzer, Chryst, so no worries.

You're talking about a program that kept an underachieving Mack Brown as their head coach for as many years as they did.

Ya...good call there JM......

It really is amazing that you are trying to make a case for Norvell having done a great job at OU just because he got hired at Texas, as if it means anything. I noticed you haven't even attempted to debate Jaaa's list of complete busts Norvell had while at OU.




This post was edited on 1/28 4:24 AM by BillyRay

Mack Brown did a lackluster job in his final years in Austin.

Where is Mack Brown now at the age of 63, basically Nick Saban's age?

Your poor evaluation of Jay Norvell's value as a WR position coach lacks tremendous credibility, when two HCs at major programs try to hire him in less than 48 hours of his release, Wisconsin and Texas. Texas won that battle for Jay Norvell in less than a week.

That tells you nothing, which is strange at best, truly strange.

So be it.

However, it tells me Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst simply don't agree with your evaluation on Jay Norvell as a WR position coach at OU. Charlie and Paul believe Jay Norvell did a great job at OU, and would do a great job at Texas and Wisconsin, both high profile programs.

That's says a lot to me, knowing they support my evaluation of Jay Norvell as a WR position coach, NOT as a Co-OC.

Charlie Strong had unlimited resources to hire a WR position coach, which lead him to hire Jay Norvell.

You're basically making the statement that Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst both poorly evaluated Jay Norvell's success at OU as a WR position coach.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[JMISASANO]

Per Charlie Strong:

In an interview on the Longhorn Network, Strong talked about a number of topics, and made it clear hiring Norvell was something that needed to get done.

"Whatever happened at Oklahoma, I called Coach Stoops. We had a great conversation," Strong said. "Bob said to me, 'Listen, Charlie, he's got two or three other interviews. If you want him, you'd better go right now. I'll do whatever I can to help you. You need to call him right away.' When I called, (Norvell) said, 'Coach, I do have this other opportunity. I'd like to look at it.'


"I tried to convince him this is the right place, the right fit. We had numerous conversations, and finally, he came on board with us. I knew at the time, we needed Jay Norvell in our program. We need someone special like that . Once you get around him and get to know who he is, you can see why he's had the success he's had."

Yeah, with the lack of resources at Texas, poor old Charlie Strong had no other choice, but to hire Jay Norvell after the abysmal job he did at OU as a WR position coach. You really can tell, poor old Charlie Strong had his hands tied at Texas and simply gave another canned speech to justify such a bad hire at WR position coach within 48 hours of being release from OU. I'm sure the horn hired a PR firm to help with those canned speeches, but they had to pay them with the petty cash fund because Texas is hurting for resources.

Sounds like Charlie Strong had to recruit Jay Norvell.

 

[BillyRay]

So mine, and everyone else's poor evaluation of Norvells performance at OU is proven wrong just because he got a job at Texas and had other offers? Believe what you want JM. Like Jaaa said....let us know any other fairy tells you come up with. I look at other things when judging how he did at OU, such as....how he did at OU!!! The number of busts he had with stud talent at OU has been documented in this thread for you to look at. It's tremendous you can look at the list Jaaa posted, yet still believe Norvell did a great job at OU.

And if Bob gave Norvell a glowing referral for other coaches looking to hire him, why would Bob do anything else? Just because things didn't work out at OU I doubt Bob is going to bash on the guy to others. He is going to talk him up so he can continue with his career. Bob already fired the guy so why would he rub salt in the wounds of a guy he prolly thinks highly of as a person and human being?

 

[JMISASANO]

Originally posted by BillyRay:
So mine, and everyone else's poor evaluation of Norvells performance at OU is proven wrong just because he got a job at Texas and had other offers? Believe what you want JM. Like Jaaa said....let us know any other fairy tells you come up with. I look at other things when judging how he did at OU, such as....how he did at OU!!! The number of busts he had with stud talent at OU has been documented in this thread for you to look at. It's tremendous you can look at the list Jaaa posted, yet still believe Norvell did a great job at OU.

And if Bob gave Norvell a glowing referral for other coaches looking to hire him, why would Bob do anything else? Just because things didn't work out at OU I doubt Bob is going to bash on the guy to others. He is going to talk him up so he can continue with his career. Bob already fired the guy so why would he rub salt in the wounds of a guy he prolly thinks highly of as a person and human being?

Things definitely didn't work out at OU with the Co-OC gig with that experimental read option blunder.

That's obvious to anyone, and why Josh Heupel only got lonely Utah State to knock on his door.

I'll buy stock in Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst's evaluations of Jay Norvell as WR position coach over Jaaa's attempt to use Rivals website reporters, adverbs and adjectives as his platform.

This post was edited on 1/28 6:50 AM by JMISASANO

 

[Jaaa]

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by BillyRay:
So mine, and everyone else's poor evaluation of Norvells performance at OU is proven wrong just because he got a job at Texas and had other offers? Believe what you want JM. Like Jaaa said....let us know any other fairy tells you come up with. I look at other things when judging how he did at OU, such as....how he did at OU!!! The number of busts he had with stud talent at OU has been documented in this thread for you to look at. It's tremendous you can look at the list Jaaa posted, yet still believe Norvell did a great job at OU.

And if Bob gave Norvell a glowing referral for other coaches looking to hire him, why would Bob do anything else? Just because things didn't work out at OU I doubt Bob is going to bash on the guy to others. He is going to talk him up so he can continue with his career. Bob already fired the guy so why would he rub salt in the wounds of a guy he prolly thinks highly of as a person and human being?

Things definitely didn't work out at OU with the Co-OC gig.

That's obvious to anyone, and why Josh Heupel only got lonely Utah State to knock on his door.

I'll buy stock in Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst's evaluations of Jay Norvell as WR position coach over Jaaa.

That was easy.

So when the facts are on your side argue the facts. When the law is on your side argue the law. When neither are in your favor attack the witness.

The fact that your opinion is based on nothing factual is dually noted. Jay Norvell is a good coach. He did not develop talent at OU.

He was fired after being the OC at Nebraska for 3 years (04-06) and after one year at UCLA (07). See a pattern developing here?

Go ahead and blame Josh Heupel and the '56% completion' for his demise.

Never mind that Stoops has stated Norvell didn't have his WR's ready to go - which was evident all year long.

At some point the OP has to understand it's not always someone else's fault. Or he can continue to deny facts and believe in unicorns and bigfoot.

Charlie Strong hired 2 coaches last year and fired them this year. But, he hired Norvell so obviously he is the smartest man on the planet!

 

[BillyRay]

Lol JM, you honestly believe Norvell did a great job as WR coach. That's astounding. Jaaa's list tells you all you need to know. What happened after Shepard went down this year tells you all you need to know. What happened when Broyles went down in 2011 tells you all you need to know. Now you can claim that Norvell getting hired at Texas after being fired at OU somehow proves he did a great job at OU. But the rest of us will look at the deficiencies and chronic busts OU had with WR talent during his tenure. Results on the field speak more than him being hired by another program.

And another thing...the fact you haven't said a word to question Jaaa's post of the incredible number of busts with Norvell recruited talent not only speaks volumes, but also tells me all I need to know in regards to this discussion.

 

[JMISASANO]

Originally posted by Jaaa:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by BillyRay:
So mine, and everyone else's poor evaluation of Norvells performance at OU is proven wrong just because he got a job at Texas and had other offers? Believe what you want JM. Like Jaaa said....let us know any other fairy tells you come up with. I look at other things when judging how he did at OU, such as....how he did at OU!!! The number of busts he had with stud talent at OU has been documented in this thread for you to look at. It's tremendous you can look at the list Jaaa posted, yet still believe Norvell did a great job at OU.

And if Bob gave Norvell a glowing referral for other coaches looking to hire him, why would Bob do anything else? Just because things didn't work out at OU I doubt Bob is going to bash on the guy to others. He is going to talk him up so he can continue with his career. Bob already fired the guy so why would he rub salt in the wounds of a guy he prolly thinks highly of as a person and human being?

Things definitely didn't work out at OU with the Co-OC gig.

That's obvious to anyone, and why Josh Heupel only got lonely Utah State to knock on his door.

I'll buy stock in Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst's evaluations of Jay Norvell as WR position coach over Jaaa.

That was easy.

So when the facts are on your side argue the facts. When the law is on your side argue the law. When neither are in your favor attack the witness.

The fact that your opinion is based on nothing factual is dually noted. Jay Norvell is a good coach. He did not develop talent at OU.

He was fired after being the OC at Nebraska for 3 years (04-06) and after one year at UCLA (07). See a pattern developing here?

Go ahead and blame Josh Heupel and the '56% completion' for his demise.

Never mind that Stoops has stated Norvell didn't have his WR's ready to go - which was evident all year long.

At some point the OP has to understand it's not always someone else's fault. Or he can continue to deny facts and believe in unicorns and bigfoot.

Charlie Strong hired 2 coaches last year and fired them this year. But, he hired Norvell so obviously he is the smartest man on the planet!

Just the facts: (No adjectives, adverbs or spin, just hard numbers)

Something tells me Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst were reading the same stats.

Jay Norvell seven years at OU....2008-2014

WR Receiving Corp vs QB Complete %:

Year 2008 - WR receiving yards = 3,220 (QB 67%)

Year 2009 - WR receiving yards = 2,800 (QB 58%)

Year 2010 - WR receiving yards = 3,450 (QB 66%)

Year 2011 - WR receiving yards = 3,330 (QB 63%)

Year 2012 - WR receiving yards = 3,540 (QB 66%)

Year 2013 - WR receiving yards = 2,200 (QB 58%)

Year 2014 - WR receiving yards = 2,000 (QB 54%)

As the QBs went the WR receptions went, worst being 2014.

Oh snap, that was easy.

Shocking that Blake Bell (60%) had a better completion rate than Trevor Knight (57%) in the last two years.

Last I heard Bob Stoops speaking about stats in his press conference he uses the exact same stats I do.

This post was edited on 1/28 8:58 AM by JMISASANO

 

[JMISASANO]

Originally posted by BillyRay:
Lol JM, you honestly believe Norvell did a great job as WR coach. That's astounding.

Let's compare with Bama vs Norvell.

Jay Norvell seven years at OU....2008-2014

OU - WR Receiving Corp vs QB Complete %:[/B]

Year 2008 - WR receiving yards = 3,220 (QB 67%)

Year 2009 - WR receiving yards = 2,800 (QB 58%)

Year 2010 - WR receiving yards = 3,450 (QB 66%)

Year 2011 - WR receiving yards = 3,330 (QB 63%)

Year 2012 - WR receiving yards = 3,540 (QB 66%)

Year 2013 - WR receiving yards = 2,200 (QB 58%)

Year 2014 - WR receiving yards = 2,000 (QB 54%)

TOTAL = 20,540 RECEIVING YARDS[/B]

Bama - WR Receiving Corp vs QB Complete %:[/B]

Year 2008 - WR receiving yards = 1,980 (QB 58%)

Year 2009 - WR receiving yards = 1,600 (QB 61%)

Year 2010 - WR receiving yards = 2,360 (QB 70%)

Year 2011 - WR receiving yards = 1,750 (QB 66%)

Year 2012 - WR receiving yards = 2,410 (QB 67%)

Year 2013 - WR receiving yards = 2,435 (QB 66%)

Year 2014 - WR receiving yards = 2,940 (QB 64%)

TOTAL = 15,475 RECEIVING YARDS

Looks like Jay Norvell's WR Corp had 5,065 more receiving yards than Bama's WR Corp.





This post was edited on 1/28 10:00 AM by JMISASANO

 

[SoonerMikee05]

And you know the other thing that makes me wonder about Strong. He fires two coaches after his first year? Really? If I was a manager at a large corporation and I fire two people the year after I hire them, would definitely raise eyebrows.

 

[madcow12]

Originally posted by SoonerMikee05:
And you know the other thing that makes me wonder about Strong. He fires two coaches after his first year? Really? If I was a manager at a large corporation and I fire two people the year after I hire them, would definitely raise eyebrows.

and eyebrows should be raised that bob fired the OC but not the DC. The defense was horrible but because it is bobs brother he stayed. The fact is that strong fired guys close to him because they did not produce. Watson was demoted and the O staff was told that if they do not produce this year they will be gone also.

 

[JMISASANO]

Let's compare with UT vs Norvell.

Jay Norvell seven years at OU....2008-2014

OU - WR Receiving Corp vs QB Complete %:

Year 2008 - WR receiving yards = 3,220 (QB 67%)

Year 2009 - WR receiving yards = 2,800 (QB 58%)

Year 2010 - WR receiving yards = 3,450 (QB 66%)

Year 2011 - WR receiving yards = 3,330 (QB 63%)

Year 2012 - WR receiving yards = 3,540 (QB 66%)

Year 2013 - WR receiving yards = 2,200 (QB 58%)

Year 2014 - WR receiving yards = 2,000 (QB 54%)

TOTAL = 20,540 RECEIVING YARDS

UT - WR Receiving Corp vs QB Complete %:

Year 2008 - WR receiving yards = 3,460 (QB 77%)

Year 2009 - WR receiving yards = 2,985 (QB 67%)

Year 2010 - WR receiving yards = 2,340 (QB 59%)

Year 2011 - WR receiving yards = 1,850 (QB 58%)

Year 2012 - WR receiving yards = 2,750 (QB 67%)

Year 2013 - WR receiving yards = 2,345 (QB 57%)

Year 2014 - WR receiving yards = 2,130 (QB 58%)

TOTAL = 17,860 RECEIVING YARDS

Looks like Jay Norvell's WR Corp had 2,680 more receiving yards than the horn's WR Corp.



This post was edited on 1/28 8:01 AM by JMISASANO

 

[BillyRay]

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Just the facts: (No adjectives, adverbs or spin, just hard numbers)

Something tells me Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst were reading the same stats.

Jay Norvell seven years at OU....2008-2014

WR Receiving Corp vs QB Complete %:

Year 2008 - WR receiving yards = 3,220 (QB 67%)

Year 2009 - WR receiving yards = 2,800 (QB 58%)

Year 2010 - WR receiving yards = 3,450 (QB 66%)

Year 2011 - WR receiving yards = 3,330 (QB 63%)

Year 2012 - WR receiving yards = 3,540 (QB 66%)

Year 2013 - WR receiving yards = 2,200 (QB 58%)

Year 2014 - WR receiving yards = 2,000 (QB 54%)

As the QBs went the WR receptions went, worst being 2014.

Oh snap, that was easy.

Shocking that Blake Bell (60%) had a better completion rate than Trevor Knight (57%) in the last two years.

Last I heard Bob Stoops speaking about stats in his press conference he uses the exact same stats I do.

As with all stats, they look good at first glance, but when you dig deeper then they are usually never what they seem.

Funny how in 2014 you constantly complain about the completion %, but you also love to claim Shepard is one of Norvell's success stories. Coincidentally enough, Shepard didn't seem to be hampered too much by that poor completion % during the season until he got hurt. Hell if he hadn't gotten hurt, Shepard very well could have had a 1500+ yard season. That would have been the best season for an OU WR since Broyles in 2010. Now, how would that be possible if the QB was so awful like you claim JM? Seems pretty clear to me that Knight simply didn't have much help from the rest of the WRs to catch the ball. Not saying Knight was perfect, but it's pretty clear that Shepard was carrying the WR group. And when he got hurt, the WRs were abysmal. That's 100% on Norvell. Period. That is something you can never, ever deny that Norvell didn't have ANY of his stud talent ready to step in and help Knight when Shepard was lost for the season.

And as for the other years, 2008 Norvell inherited some great talent that got developed under Sumlin. And with Bradford running the show it was the greatest offense season under Stoops. And the few years after that, he had his best success stories with Still and Broyles on the field. Those were Norvell's golden years at OU. When those guys left, OU had to turn to transfers since Norvell couldn't develop the kids he got out of high school. From 2012, take away the yards from transfers and lets see what kind of production the players Norvell recruited from high school. I've said this 10 times before, but it says alot when OU had to rely on transfers to shore up the WR group since it was obvious Norvell was busting on developing his own talent.

And as for the last part of your post that I emboldened and underlined....ya...those are the same stats Bob uses at his press conferences to defend his offensive coaches that he FIRED after the season was over. Go figure......

 

[Oklabama]

Originally posted by madcow12:

Originally posted by SoonerMikee05:
And you know the other thing that makes me wonder about Strong. He fires two coaches after his first year? Really? If I was a manager at a large corporation and I fire two people the year after I hire them, would definitely raise eyebrows.

and eyebrows should be raised that bob fired the OC but not the DC. The defense was horrible but because it is bobs brother he stayed. The fact is that strong fired guys close to him because they did not produce. Watson was demoted and the O staff was told that if they do not produce this year they will be gone also.

Madcow, are saying a college coach was demoted and took it rather than telling Strong "fire me" or "I rather quit"? What a slap in the face that would be. Never heard of such a thing! Hey, bud, you're right about Mike Stoops keeping his job....a lot of Sooner fans are questioning that call as well.

 

[JMISASANO]

Originally posted by BillyRay:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Just the facts: (No adjectives, adverbs or spin, just hard numbers)

Something tells me Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst were reading the same stats.

Jay Norvell seven years at OU....2008-2014

WR Receiving Corp vs QB Complete %:

Year 2008 - WR receiving yards = 3,220 (QB 67%)

Year 2009 - WR receiving yards = 2,800 (QB 58%)

Year 2010 - WR receiving yards = 3,450 (QB 66%)

Year 2011 - WR receiving yards = 3,330 (QB 63%)

Year 2012 - WR receiving yards = 3,540 (QB 66%)

Year 2013 - WR receiving yards = 2,200 (QB 58%)

Year 2014 - WR receiving yards = 2,000 (QB 54%)

As the QBs went the WR receptions went, worst being 2014.

Oh snap, that was easy.

Shocking that Blake Bell (60%) had a better completion rate than Trevor Knight (57%) in the last two years.

Last I heard Bob Stoops speaking about stats in his press conference he uses the exact same stats I do.

As with all stats, they look good at first glance, but when you dig deeper then they are usually never what they seem.

Funny how in 2014 you constantly complain about the completion %, but you also love to claim Shepard is one of Norvell's success stories. Coincidentally enough, Shepard didn't seem to be hampered too much by that poor completion % during the season until he got hurt. Hell if he hadn't gotten hurt, Shepard very well could have had a 1500+ yard season. That would have been the best season for an OU WR since Broyles in 2010. Now, how would that be possible if the QB was so awful like you claim JM? Seems pretty clear to me that Knight simply didn't have much help from the rest of the WRs to catch the ball. Not saying Knight was perfect, but it's pretty clear that Shepard was carrying the WR group. And when he got hurt, the WRs were abysmal. That's 100% on Norvell. Period. That is something you can never, ever deny that Norvell didn't have ANY of his stud talent ready to step in and help Knight when Shepard was lost for the season.

And as for the other years, 2008 Norvell inherited some great talent that got developed under Sumlin. And with Bradford running the show it was the greatest offense season under Stoops. And the few years after that, he had his best success stories with Still and Broyles on the field. Those were Norvell's golden years at OU. When those guys left, OU had to turn to transfers since Norvell couldn't develop the kids he got out of high school. From 2012, take away the yards from transfers and lets see what kind of production the players Norvell recruited from high school. I've said this 10 times before, but it says alot when OU had to rely on transfers to shore up the WR group since it was obvious Norvell was busting on developing his own talent.

And as for the last part of your post that I emboldened and underlined....ya...those are the same stats Bob uses at his press conferences to defend his offensive coaches that he FIRED after the season was over. Go figure......

Your lack of analytics is truly telling.

Bob fired two Co-OCs, not just a WR position coach or a QB position coach.

Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

Analytics over a large sample or period of time support or discredit any argument.

These numbers support Jay Norvell's success at OU as a WR position coach, which logically supports why in 48 hours he was being interviewed by Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst. The meat of Jay Norvell's success was between 2010, 2011 and 2012, which debunks the argument of Sumlin coaching his WR corp up. But, you analytically can't conclude that fact for your lack of ability to analyze stats.

You stick with adverbs, adjectives and Charlie, Paul and I will stick with the hard numbers.

This post was edited on 1/28 11:11 AM by JMISASANO

 

[BillyRay]

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

With everything in this thread that goes against your man crush for Norvell, I wonder the same thing about you. You can choose to look at whatever you want to justify your opinion. You stick to your stats, and I will stick to his track record of busted talent.

 

[madcow12]

Originally posted by Oklabama:

Originally posted by madcow12:

Originally posted by SoonerMikee05:
And you know the other thing that makes me wonder about Strong. He fires two coaches after his first year? Really? If I was a manager at a large corporation and I fire two people the year after I hire them, would definitely raise eyebrows.

and eyebrows should be raised that bob fired the OC but not the DC. The defense was horrible but because it is bobs brother he stayed. The fact is that strong fired guys close to him because they did not produce. Watson was demoted and the O staff was told that if they do not produce this year they will be gone also.

Madcow, are saying a college coach was demoted and took it rather than telling Strong "fire me" or "I rather quit"? What a slap in the face that would be. Never heard of such a thing! Hey, bud, you're right about Mike Stoops keeping his job....a lot of Sooner fans are questioning that call as well.

I need to find the full article but after the Arkansas game wickline will be the OC and Watson will remain as the assistant head coach for the offense/quarterbacks coach. There was also a article out there that the whole oc staff was told their jobs were in jeopardy. It is not unheard of to fire somebody after the first year, Strong does not have the type of record that stoops has or the good will that OU has to let bob get things right again. Strong has about 3 years to get this turned around or they move onto somebody else, If not it will be a muschamp type of tenure like he had at Fla. Good Defense, bad offense.

 

[JMISASANO]

Originally posted by BillyRay:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

With everything in this thread that goes against your man crush for Norvell, I wonder the same thing about you. You can choose to look at whatever you want to justify your opinion. You stick to your stats, and I will stick to his track record of busted talent.[/B]

Finally!!!!

I'm glad you finally made that statement, your words not mine.

You are so focused on who Jay Norvell didn't put on the field, you simply lose fact at what Jay Norvell's WR Corp was able to do on the field as a unit.

The above stats support WR Corp on the field production, regardless of the depth chart or individual busts.

Your adjectives and adverbs focus on individual busts alone, not on the field performance.

I care about on the field performance of the WR Corp, not who couldn't get on the field.

Will you consider two year starter Trevor Knight a bust, if Baker Mayfield starts in the fall?

If Sterling Shepard, Durron Neal and Michiah Quick start next year will they be developed successes of Jay Norvell, using your Sumlin argument for year 1 and year 2?

Something tells me Shepard, Neal, Quick, Mead and Todd will see more playing time than Knight and that too is very telling.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Your man crush on Norvell is approaching the same level of your man crush on Saban before he lost in the playoffs.

There is no doubt in my mind that Norvell will work harder for Strong than he has the past few for Stoops. He has something to prove. He was fired. He was given a renewed energy and a shot of love from his one time foe. Norvell's record shows that he went after talent and did not take into consideration the character of those he recruited. Their grades. As a Coach that is required to coach college ball vs the NFL, this has a huge bearing on the outcome of the recruits/players he brings into the team.

Having said this, I think OU will be better next year on passing to the WRs than they were this year.

 

[BillyRay]

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by BillyRay:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

With everything in this thread that goes against your man crush for Norvell, I wonder the same thing about you. You can choose to look at whatever you want to justify your opinion. You stick to your stats, and I will stick to his track record of busted talent.[/B]

Finally!!!!

I'm glad you finally made that statement, your words not mine.

You are so focused on who Jay Norvell didn't put on the field, you simply lose fact at what Jay Norvell's WR Corp was able to do on the field as a unit.

The above stats support WR Corp on the field production, regardless of the depth chart or individual busts.

Your adjectives and adverbs focus on individual busts alone, not on the field performance.

I care about on the field performance of the WR Corp, not who couldn't get on the field.

Will you consider two year starter Trevor Knight a bust, if Baker Mayfield starts in the fall?

If Sterling Shepard, Durron Neal and Michiah Quick start next year will they be developed successes of Jay Norvell, using your Sumlin argument for year 1 and year 2?

Something tells me Shepard, Neal, Quick, Mead and Todd will see more playing time than Knight and that too is very telling.

Finally what?? Your stats prove nothing, and stats usually never tell the whole story. It's really amazing the parts of my posts you choose to ignore that completely dismantle your man crush for Norvell and your claim he was a great success at OU. 2014 proved without a doubt that Norvell was a failure, because he wasn't able to get a transfer to come in and carry his WR group like the previous few years. So your stats are meaningless since they are padded with players he got from other programs who developed them for him. Your comment I highlighted says it all, "who couldn't get on the field" is precisely the issue. He recruited all this bigtime talent, and they very rarely accounted for anything. So yes, absolutely I'm focused on guys Norvell didn't get on the field cuz that was a massive issue with the offense this past season when Shepard went down. Or did you not watch the same OU games as I did this year??

And it's comical you continue to even mention Neal in your posts, since the kid has been in the program for 3 years, and finally caught his first TD pass this past season during his junior year. Ya...that's some BIGTIME player development considering how highly touted he was when he was recruited to OU.

Shepard I will give Norvell some credit, but anyone could tell that kids freshman year he was a gamer and got to OU light years ahead of other WRs.

 

[madcow12]

Dam...its starting to look a lot like OB's over here

You guys need to hug and let it go.

 

[JMISASANO]

Originally posted by BillyRay:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by BillyRay:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

With everything in this thread that goes against your man crush for Norvell, I wonder the same thing about you. You can choose to look at whatever you want to justify your opinion. You stick to your stats, and I will stick to his track record of busted talent.[/B]

Finally!!!!

I'm glad you finally made that statement, your words not mine.

You are so focused on who Jay Norvell didn't put on the field, you simply lose fact at what Jay Norvell's WR Corp was able to do on the field as a unit.

The above stats support WR Corp on the field production, regardless of the depth chart or individual busts.

Your adjectives and adverbs focus on individual busts alone, not on the field performance.

I care about on the field performance of the WR Corp, not who couldn't get on the field.

Will you consider two year starter Trevor Knight a bust, if Baker Mayfield starts in the fall?

If Sterling Shepard, Durron Neal and Michiah Quick start next year will they be developed successes of Jay Norvell, using your Sumlin argument for year 1 and year 2?

Something tells me Shepard, Neal, Quick, Mead and Todd will see more playing time than Knight and that too is very telling.

Finally what??

That:

"You stick to your stats, and I will stick to his track record of busted talent"

Your words not mine!

I will stick with Jay Norvell's WR Corp on field performance proven stats and you worry about who couldn't get on the field.

 

[Oklabama]

JMIS, all kidding aside, do you think Jay is going to have a better QB situation at Texas next year than he had at OU for the last couple of years? Since his WR's stats were down in 2013 and 2014 due to Trevor and Blake's completion percentage, I would think the Horns stats wouldn't be that much different unless the UT QBs are better passers. If not, Charlie can't expect Jay to work miracles with the WRs this season. I am thinking right? I don't even know how Charlie's QB did last year.

 

[BillyRay]

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

That:

"You stick to your stats, and I will stick to his track record of busted talent"

Your words not mine!

I will stick with Jay Norvell's WR Corp on field performance proven stats and you worry about who couldn't get on the field.

That's exactly what I will stick with. Because the entire premise behind Norvell's failure at OU was his awful record of developing talent. And the facts of how many of his great recruits that could never see the field or were total busts, is a direct reflection of that failure. So you quoting what I said further hammers home the point I am trying to make.

And I will say it again for the 100th time....take away the transfers who came in and saved Norvell's ass the last few years and see what the talent he recruited from high school did. He needed JUCO transfers to bail out his WR group because his unbelievable failure at developing them. He had to go and out get kids that got developed elsewhere. So take them out of your "WR Corp on field performance proven stats" and see what you come up with.




This post was edited on 1/28 1:07 PM by BillyRay

 

[rush4life]

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by Jaaa:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by BillyRay:
So mine, and everyone else's poor evaluation of Norvells performance at OU is proven wrong just because he got a job at Texas and had other offers? Believe what you want JM. Like Jaaa said....let us know any other fairy tells you come up with. I look at other things when judging how he did at OU, such as....how he did at OU!!! The number of busts he had with stud talent at OU has been documented in this thread for you to look at. It's tremendous you can look at the list Jaaa posted, yet still believe Norvell did a great job at OU.

And if Bob gave Norvell a glowing referral for other coaches looking to hire him, why would Bob do anything else? Just because things didn't work out at OU I doubt Bob is going to bash on the guy to others. He is going to talk him up so he can continue with his career. Bob already fired the guy so why would he rub salt in the wounds of a guy he prolly thinks highly of as a person and human being?

Things definitely didn't work out at OU with the Co-OC gig.

That's obvious to anyone, and why Josh Heupel only got lonely Utah State to knock on his door.

I'll buy stock in Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst's evaluations of Jay Norvell as WR position coach over Jaaa.

That was easy.

So when the facts are on your side argue the facts. When the law is on your side argue the law. When neither are in your favor attack the witness.

The fact that your opinion is based on nothing factual is dually noted. Jay Norvell is a good coach. He did not develop talent at OU.

He was fired after being the OC at Nebraska for 3 years (04-06) and after one year at UCLA (07). See a pattern developing here?

Go ahead and blame Josh Heupel and the '56% completion' for his demise.

Never mind that Stoops has stated Norvell didn't have his WR's ready to go - which was evident all year long.

At some point the OP has to understand it's not always someone else's fault. Or he can continue to deny facts and believe in unicorns and bigfoot.

Charlie Strong hired 2 coaches last year and fired them this year. But, he hired Norvell so obviously he is the smartest man on the planet!

Just the facts: (No adjectives, adverbs or spin, just hard numbers)

Something tells me Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst were reading the same stats.

Jay Norvell seven years at OU....2008-2014

WR Receiving Corp vs QB Complete %:

Year 2008 - WR receiving yards = 3,220 (QB 67%)

Year 2009 - WR receiving yards = 2,800 (QB 58%)

Year 2010 - WR receiving yards = 3,450 (QB 66%)

Year 2011 - WR receiving yards = 3,330 (QB 63%)

Year 2012 - WR receiving yards = 3,540 (QB 66%)

Year 2013 - WR receiving yards = 2,200 (QB 58%)

Year 2014 - WR receiving yards = 2,000 (QB 54%)

As the QBs went the WR receptions went, worst being 2014.

Oh snap, that was easy.

Shocking that Blake Bell (60%) had a better completion rate than Trevor Knight (57%) in the last two years.

Last I heard Bob Stoops speaking about stats in his press conference he uses the exact same stats I do.

This post was edited on 1/28 8:58 AM by JMISASANO

Allow me to play devil's advocate here..... Could TK's completion percentage have something to do with receivers not named Sterling not getting separation? I mean I watch a lot of film and this year was not the best in terms of receivers getting open.

 

[JMISASANO]

Originally posted by BillyRay:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

That:

"You stick to your stats, and I will stick to his track record of busted talent"

Your words not mine!

I will stick with Jay Norvell's WR Corp on field performance proven stats and you worry about who couldn't get on the field.

That's exactly what I will stick with.


This post was edited on 1/28 1:07 PM by BillyRay

Good, knowing I could care less about any individual WR talent that couldn't get on the field.

However, I do care about the overall performance of Jay Norvell's WR Corp on the field.

I have posted the stats to prove their success, not just adjectives and adverbs, as well as comparison with UT and Bama during that same period.

Those stats are impressive, just ask Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst.

 

[JMISASANO]

Originally posted by rush4life:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by Jaaa:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by BillyRay:
So mine, and everyone else's poor evaluation of Norvells performance at OU is proven wrong just because he got a job at Texas and had other offers? Believe what you want JM. Like Jaaa said....let us know any other fairy tells you come up with. I look at other things when judging how he did at OU, such as....how he did at OU!!! The number of busts he had with stud talent at OU has been documented in this thread for you to look at. It's tremendous you can look at the list Jaaa posted, yet still believe Norvell did a great job at OU.

And if Bob gave Norvell a glowing referral for other coaches looking to hire him, why would Bob do anything else? Just because things didn't work out at OU I doubt Bob is going to bash on the guy to others. He is going to talk him up so he can continue with his career. Bob already fired the guy so why would he rub salt in the wounds of a guy he prolly thinks highly of as a person and human being?

Things definitely didn't work out at OU with the Co-OC gig.

That's obvious to anyone, and why Josh Heupel only got lonely Utah State to knock on his door.

I'll buy stock in Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst's evaluations of Jay Norvell as WR position coach over Jaaa.

That was easy.

So when the facts are on your side argue the facts. When the law is on your side argue the law. When neither are in your favor attack the witness.

The fact that your opinion is based on nothing factual is dually noted. Jay Norvell is a good coach. He did not develop talent at OU.

He was fired after being the OC at Nebraska for 3 years (04-06) and after one year at UCLA (07). See a pattern developing here?

Go ahead and blame Josh Heupel and the '56% completion' for his demise.

Never mind that Stoops has stated Norvell didn't have his WR's ready to go - which was evident all year long.

At some point the OP has to understand it's not always someone else's fault. Or he can continue to deny facts and believe in unicorns and bigfoot.

Charlie Strong hired 2 coaches last year and fired them this year. But, he hired Norvell so obviously he is the smartest man on the planet!

Just the facts: (No adjectives, adverbs or spin, just hard numbers)

Something tells me Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst were reading the same stats.

Jay Norvell seven years at OU....2008-2014

WR Receiving Corp vs QB Complete %:

Year 2008 - WR receiving yards = 3,220 (QB 67%)

Year 2009 - WR receiving yards = 2,800 (QB 58%)

Year 2010 - WR receiving yards = 3,450 (QB 66%)

Year 2011 - WR receiving yards = 3,330 (QB 63%)

Year 2012 - WR receiving yards = 3,540 (QB 66%)

Year 2013 - WR receiving yards = 2,200 (QB 58%)

Year 2014 - WR receiving yards = 2,000 (QB 54%)

As the QBs went the WR receptions went, worst being 2014.

Oh snap, that was easy.

Shocking that Blake Bell (60%) had a better completion rate than Trevor Knight (57%) in the last two years.

Last I heard Bob Stoops speaking about stats in his press conference he uses the exact same stats I do.

This post was edited on 1/28 8:58 AM by JMISASANO

Allow me to play devil's advocate here..... Could TK's completion percentage have something to do with receivers not named Sterling not getting separation? I mean I watch a lot of film and this year was not the best in terms of receivers getting open.

You'll find out next year once a QB starter has been named won't you.

Those same WRs on the field developed by Jay Norvell will be catching their passes.

Trevor's two year 57% completion is in line with his high school 56% completion, so he's consistent with that number.

 

[gratefulRed]

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by WhyNotaSooner:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by madcow12:

I would love to get reed. jay may turn out to be a great hire, hopefully he has been re-energized to get these guys coached up.

Jay Norvell as a WR position coach was never the issue at OU imho.

I just hope the horns can't find a QB on the roster that throws over 56% either to make his WR corp look bad.




This post was edited on 1/26 12:31 PM by JMISASANO

IMO he was. He had more bust than Kate Upton.

Strange comparing breasts to WR success at OU, but that just proves your analysis can't get past the chest to truly analyze the hands.

But, if you are so focused on Kate Upton's bust to truly see the success on the field like Kenny Stills, Ryan Broyles, Sterling Shepard, Jaz Reynolds, LaColtan Bester and Jalen Saunders, then you get a free pass.

This post was edited on 1/26 1:17 PM by JMISASANO

i wasn't sold on his ability to develop players. Just look at your list...

Broyles, Stills, Shepard..were ALL great as true freshman...or in Ryan's case in his first start after a yr probation. Did he really make them good?? Not likely, they were already polished, talented WR's the minute they hit campus. Now, you have Bester and Saunders whom transferred IN to OU and again, we're already pretty developed...especially Saunders. He was an INSTANT "plug in and play" type guy. Truly, a total gift that fell into Norvell's hands. Bester made a handful of plays his Jr year and was pretty solid his 2nd year (as a Sr) and came in as a judo. Don't think he sniffed the NFL to my knowledge. That leaves Reynolds. He showed flashes as a youngster but never broke out. He WOULD'VE been a great example of how Norvell "develops players"....if only Jaz would've really had a break out type year...which he really didn't.

I think the guy can really recruit...but beyond that....he's not really proved too much.

 

[rush4life]

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by rush4life:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by Jaaa:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by BillyRay:
So mine, and everyone else's poor evaluation of Norvells performance at OU is proven wrong just because he got a job at Texas and had other offers? Believe what you want JM. Like Jaaa said....let us know any other fairy tells you come up with. I look at other things when judging how he did at OU, such as....how he did at OU!!! The number of busts he had with stud talent at OU has been documented in this thread for you to look at. It's tremendous you can look at the list Jaaa posted, yet still believe Norvell did a great job at OU.

And if Bob gave Norvell a glowing referral for other coaches looking to hire him, why would Bob do anything else? Just because things didn't work out at OU I doubt Bob is going to bash on the guy to others. He is going to talk him up so he can continue with his career. Bob already fired the guy so why would he rub salt in the wounds of a guy he prolly thinks highly of as a person and human being?

Things definitely didn't work out at OU with the Co-OC gig.

That's obvious to anyone, and why Josh Heupel only got lonely Utah State to knock on his door.

I'll buy stock in Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst's evaluations of Jay Norvell as WR position coach over Jaaa.

That was easy.

So when the facts are on your side argue the facts. When the law is on your side argue the law. When neither are in your favor attack the witness.

The fact that your opinion is based on nothing factual is dually noted. Jay Norvell is a good coach. He did not develop talent at OU.

He was fired after being the OC at Nebraska for 3 years (04-06) and after one year at UCLA (07). See a pattern developing here?

Go ahead and blame Josh Heupel and the '56% completion' for his demise.

Never mind that Stoops has stated Norvell didn't have his WR's ready to go - which was evident all year long.

At some point the OP has to understand it's not always someone else's fault. Or he can continue to deny facts and believe in unicorns and bigfoot.

Charlie Strong hired 2 coaches last year and fired them this year. But, he hired Norvell so obviously he is the smartest man on the planet!

Just the facts: (No adjectives, adverbs or spin, just hard numbers)

Something tells me Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst were reading the same stats.

Jay Norvell seven years at OU....2008-2014

WR Receiving Corp vs QB Complete %:

Year 2008 - WR receiving yards = 3,220 (QB 67%)

Year 2009 - WR receiving yards = 2,800 (QB 58%)

Year 2010 - WR receiving yards = 3,450 (QB 66%)

Year 2011 - WR receiving yards = 3,330 (QB 63%)

Year 2012 - WR receiving yards = 3,540 (QB 66%)

Year 2013 - WR receiving yards = 2,200 (QB 58%)

Year 2014 - WR receiving yards = 2,000 (QB 54%)

As the QBs went the WR receptions went, worst being 2014.

Oh snap, that was easy.

Shocking that Blake Bell (60%) had a better completion rate than Trevor Knight (57%) in the last two years.

Last I heard Bob Stoops speaking about stats in his press conference he uses the exact same stats I do.

This post was edited on 1/28 8:58 AM by JMISASANO

Allow me to play devil's advocate here..... Could TK's completion percentage have something to do with receivers not named Sterling not getting separation? I mean I watch a lot of film and this year was not the best in terms of receivers getting open.

You'll find out next year once a QB starter has been named won't you.

Those same WRs on the field developed by Jay Norvell will be catching their passes.

Trevor's two year 57% completion is in line with his high school 56% completion, so he's consistent with that number.

But i'm not talking about next year. next year will be an entirely new offense with possibly a new QB. I'm talking about last season. These receivers did not get separation and also had the case of the drops at times. Now that isn't all Jay. Players have to make plays. Was TK great? no sir. But it could be Sam Bradford.... If receivers don't get open and drop balls then that hurts your comp %. At the end of the day, the offensive scheme (if you want to call it that) and play calling sucked. But one thing that can not be debated is that Sterling had no problem getting open and making plays. Once he went down the passing game went down with him. That tells me that one receiver was ready and the others weren't. That doesn't look good for the WR coach.

 

[BillyRay]

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Good, knowing I could care less about any individual WR talent that couldn't get on the field.

However, I do care about the overall performance of Jay Norvell's WR Corp on the field.

I have posted the stats to prove their success, not just adjectives and adverbs, as well as comparison with UT and Bama during that same period.

Those stats are impressive, just ask Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst.

Well as long as Texas can keep proven JUCO WR transfers coming in, then the Texas WR Corp should be able to keep their heads above water. Cuz lord knows Norvell can't develop his own talent.

 

[gratefulRed]

i'm not really sure that only because Texas hires someone...that we should expect that to "be a great hire"!?! Mack hired plenty of people to the 40 acres that ended up getting fired. I don't give a crap about the resources and night life that UT has....that does not prevent them from making suspect hires. Bottom line, Jay did not consistently develop WR's here at OU...and he had PLENTY of talent to work with during his tenure. He was fired from OU. That is what I know...what I saw. If Charlie wants him, great. Glad Norvell is able to take care of his family...but in no way does that change my opinion of how WELL Jay did his JOB here at OU. Maybe he'll DO his JOB at UT.....we'll all wait with baited breath.

 

[rush4life]

JMISASANO, I see your numbers and they are credible. Definitely give you some ammo for a debate. But look at it from this point of view. Let's take Heupel the OC out of the equation and just like at Heupel the QB coach. Let's preface by saying QB is different to coach then WR but just for debates sake i'll bring it up. He had Paul Thompson, Sam Bradford, Landry Jones, and the recent crop of QBs. Paul, great team player but wasn't a QB. Sam and Landry? Enough said. Then you go to our recent crop of QBs. Bell gets moved to TE and TK regressed. TK gets hurt and we plug in Cody Thomas who looks horrible as a passer. After the Sam and Landry the development was piss poor. What makes matters worse is when you have a school like Zero State who plugs their 3rd string QB in big games and he looks like a baller. I feel Heupel should have been fired for QB development alone. Did the receivers stats for Jay that you provided look good? Yes. But when you have a handful of guys that are good that didn't come from a JUCO and then the replacement players that are highly ranked out of high school lay duds and don't produce, it looks bad when other schools are doing the opposite. I like Jay and wish him the best and I feel he should be there before guys like Kish. But the WR product last year was so bad that it had to be addressed. Just my 2 cents.

This post was edited on 1/28 2:05 PM by rush4life

 

[madcow12]

Originally posted by BillyRay:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Good, knowing I could care less about any individual WR talent that couldn't get on the field.

However, I do care about the overall performance of Jay Norvell's WR Corp on the field.

I have posted the stats to prove their success, not just adjectives and adverbs, as well as comparison with UT and Bama during that same period.

Those stats are impressive, just ask Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst.

Well as long as Texas can keep proven JUCO WR transfers coming in, then the Texas WR Corp should be able to keep their heads above water. Cuz lord knows Norvell can't develop his own talent.

is this a guy he was recruiting before he left OU ?


JUCO WR Dominique Reed of Coffeyville, KS is starting to receive some crystal balls for Texas

 

[JMISASANO]

Originally posted by rush4life:
JMISASANO, I see your numbers and they are credible. Definitely give you some ammo for a debate. But look at it from this point of view. Let's take Heupel the OC out of the equation and just like at Heupel the QB coach. Let's preface by saying QB is different to coach then WR but just for debates sake i'll bring it up. He had Paul Thompson, Sam Bradford, Landry Jones, and the recent crop of QBs. Paul, great team player but wasn't a QB. Sam and Landry? Enough said. Then you go to our recent crop of QBs. Bell gets moved to TE and TK regressed. TK gets hurt and we plug in Cody Thomas who looks horrible as a passer. After the Sam and Landry the development was piss poor. What makes matters worse is when you have a school like Zero State who plugs their 3rd string QB in big games and he looks like a baller. I feel Heupel should have been fired for QB development alone. Did the receivers stats for Jay that you provided look good? Yes. But when you have a handful of guys that are good that didn't come from a JUCO and then the replacement players that are highly ranked out of high school lay duds and don't produce, it looks bad when other schools are doing the opposite. I like Jay and wish him the best and I feel he should be there before guys like Kish. But the WR product last year was so bad that it had to be addressed. Just my 2 cents.

This post was edited on 1/28 2:05 PM by rush4life

Josh Heupel as a position QB coach in the spread was not an issue with Kevin Wilson helping him recruit QBs.

Josh Heupel as a Co-OC and Playcaller of his newly schemed offense was the issue.

And...

It's not entirely Josh Heupel's fault. Someone approved his change in offensive philosophy, allowing him to spend a summer on a tour learning about the read option. That's an offense he had no experience coaching within.

He then takes a QB that has a high school % of 56% to step in as a rFr to run that offense with no experience in college as a back-up. They pull that scheme, plug spread back in with Bell, then pull that scheme and plug Knight back again with another scheme. Josh Heupel stays with that scheme in 2014, which saw two year of 57% from Trevor Knight.

56% high school, 57% OU. You can't win many games against pass happy teams with a QB throwing those numbers.

The starting QB that takes the field next season will clear the air on this whole argument of the chicken or the egg.






This post was edited on 1/28 12:34 PM by JMISASANO

 

[JMISASANO]

Originally posted by madcow12:

Originally posted by BillyRay:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Good, knowing I could care less about any individual WR talent that couldn't get on the field.

However, I do care about the overall performance of Jay Norvell's WR Corp on the field.

I have posted the stats to prove their success, not just adjectives and adverbs, as well as comparison with UT and Bama during that same period.

Those stats are impressive, just ask Charlie Strong and Paul Chryst.

Well as long as Texas can keep proven JUCO WR transfers coming in, then the Texas WR Corp should be able to keep their heads above water. Cuz lord knows Norvell can't develop his own talent.

is this a guy he was recruiting before he left OU ?


JUCO WR Dominique Reed of Coffeyville, KS is starting to receive some crystal balls for Texas

Dominique Reed is a freak'n stud. Wow, I sure hope he chooses elsewhere.

And, don't worry about BillyRay, he truly believes JUCOs don't need development.

I don't want to spoil his flawed argument by telling him that the NFL has WR position coaches developing NFL talent.





This post was edited on 1/28 2:23 PM by JMISASANO

 

[rush4life]

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by rush4life:
JMISASANO, I see your numbers and they are credible. Definitely give you some ammo for a debate. But look at it from this point of view. Let's take Heupel the OC out of the equation and just like at Heupel the QB coach. Let's preface by saying QB is different to coach then WR but just for debates sake i'll bring it up. He had Paul Thompson, Sam Bradford, Landry Jones, and the recent crop of QBs. Paul, great team player but wasn't a QB. Sam and Landry? Enough said. Then you go to our recent crop of QBs. Bell gets moved to TE and TK regressed. TK gets hurt and we plug in Cody Thomas who looks horrible as a passer. After the Sam and Landry the development was piss poor. What makes matters worse is when you have a school like Zero State who plugs their 3rd string QB in big games and he looks like a baller. I feel Heupel should have been fired for QB development alone. Did the receivers stats for Jay that you provided look good? Yes. But when you have a handful of guys that are good that didn't come from a JUCO and then the replacement players that are highly ranked out of high school lay duds and don't produce, it looks bad when other schools are doing the opposite. I like Jay and wish him the best and I feel he should be there before guys like Kish. But the WR product last year was so bad that it had to be addressed. Just my 2 cents.

This post was edited on 1/28 2:05 PM by rush4life

Josh Heupel as a position QB coach in the spread was not an issue with Kevin Wilson helping him recruit QBs.

Josh Heupel as a Co-OC and Playcaller of his newly schemed offense was the issue.

And I agree to a certain extent, but you have to admit. It wasn't a coincidence that the passing game was nil once Sterling got hurt. That can't reflect good on the other receivers and the WR coach.

 

[JMISASANO]

Originally posted by rush4life:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by rush4life:
JMISASANO, I see your numbers and they are credible. Definitely give you some ammo for a debate. But look at it from this point of view. Let's take Heupel the OC out of the equation and just like at Heupel the QB coach. Let's preface by saying QB is different to coach then WR but just for debates sake i'll bring it up. He had Paul Thompson, Sam Bradford, Landry Jones, and the recent crop of QBs. Paul, great team player but wasn't a QB. Sam and Landry? Enough said. Then you go to our recent crop of QBs. Bell gets moved to TE and TK regressed. TK gets hurt and we plug in Cody Thomas who looks horrible as a passer. After the Sam and Landry the development was piss poor. What makes matters worse is when you have a school like Zero State who plugs their 3rd string QB in big games and he looks like a baller. I feel Heupel should have been fired for QB development alone. Did the receivers stats for Jay that you provided look good? Yes. But when you have a handful of guys that are good that didn't come from a JUCO and then the replacement players that are highly ranked out of high school lay duds and don't produce, it looks bad when other schools are doing the opposite. I like Jay and wish him the best and I feel he should be there before guys like Kish. But the WR product last year was so bad that it had to be addressed. Just my 2 cents.

This post was edited on 1/28 2:05 PM by rush4life

Josh Heupel as a position QB coach in the spread was not an issue with Kevin Wilson helping him recruit QBs.

Josh Heupel as a Co-OC and Playcaller of his newly schemed offense was the issue.

And I agree to a certain extent, but you have to admit. It wasn't a coincidence that the passing game was nil once Sterling got hurt. That can't reflect good on the other receivers and the WR coach.

And...

It's not entirely Josh Heupel's fault. Someone approved his change in offensive philosophy, allowing him to spend a summer on a tour learning about the read option. That's an offense he had no experience coaching within.

He then takes a QB that has a high school % of 56% to step in as a RFr in 2013 to run that offense with no experience in college as a back-up. They pull that scheme, plug spread back in with Bell, then pull that scheme and plug Knight back again with another scheme. Josh Heupel stays with that scheme in 2014, which saw a two year average of 57% from Trevor Knight.

56% high school, 57% OU. You can't win many games against pass happy teams with a QB throwing those numbers.

The starting QB that takes the field next season will clear the air on this whole argument of the chicken or the egg.

Receivers named Sterling, Neal, Quick, Todd, and Mead will be on the field as well.







This post was edited on 1/28 2:43 PM by JMISASANO

 

[BillyRay]

Originally posted by JMISASANO:


Dominique Reed is a freak'n stud. Wow, I sure hope he chooses elsewhere.

And, don't worry about BillyRay, he truly believes JUCOs don't need development.

I don't want to spoil his flawed argument by telling him that the NFL has WR position coaches developing NFL talent.

madcow, I don't follow recruiting like some on here, so I'm not sure if OU was going after Reed while Norvell was here or not.

JM, if my argument is flawed, then what happened to OUs WRs this past season when Shepard was lost? This year more than any, finally showcased Norvell's failures. Shepard had no trouble getting open and making plays, even with a 56% completion QB. But somehow when he goes down, the passing game tanked. Guys like Brown and Saunders the last couple of years saved Norvell's ass. This year Norvell wasn't able to get DGB a waiver to bail him out and we saw the painful result when Shepard went down and the rest of the "OU WR Corp" showcased thier fabulous development Norvell has made with them since they joined the OU program. Norvell sucked while at OU.

JM, you are the one with the flawed argument. You are trying to claim Norvell was great a developing talent, then say you don't care about the kids who couldn't get on the field or kids he recruited out of high school who never amounted to much of anything, despite being considered stud talent. Wow....just wow.....WOW.







This post was edited on 1/28 2:52 PM by BillyRay

 

[rush4life]

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by rush4life:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by rush4life:
JMISASANO, I see your numbers and they are credible. Definitely give you some ammo for a debate. But look at it from this point of view. Let's take Heupel the OC out of the equation and just like at Heupel the QB coach. Let's preface by saying QB is different to coach then WR but just for debates sake i'll bring it up. He had Paul Thompson, Sam Bradford, Landry Jones, and the recent crop of QBs. Paul, great team player but wasn't a QB. Sam and Landry? Enough said. Then you go to our recent crop of QBs. Bell gets moved to TE and TK regressed. TK gets hurt and we plug in Cody Thomas who looks horrible as a passer. After the Sam and Landry the development was piss poor. What makes matters worse is when you have a school like Zero State who plugs their 3rd string QB in big games and he looks like a baller. I feel Heupel should have been fired for QB development alone. Did the receivers stats for Jay that you provided look good? Yes. But when you have a handful of guys that are good that didn't come from a JUCO and then the replacement players that are highly ranked out of high school lay duds and don't produce, it looks bad when other schools are doing the opposite. I like Jay and wish him the best and I feel he should be there before guys like Kish. But the WR product last year was so bad that it had to be addressed. Just my 2 cents.

This post was edited on 1/28 2:05 PM by rush4life

Josh Heupel as a position QB coach in the spread was not an issue with Kevin Wilson helping him recruit QBs.

Josh Heupel as a Co-OC and Playcaller of his newly schemed offense was the issue.

And I agree to a certain extent, but you have to admit. It wasn't a coincidence that the passing game was nil once Sterling got hurt. That can't reflect good on the other receivers and the WR coach.

And...

It's not entirely Josh Heupel's fault. Someone approved his change in offensive philosophy, allowing him to spend a summer on a tour learning about the read option. That's an offense he had no experience coaching within.

He then takes a QB that has a high school % of 56% to step in as a RFr in 2013 to run that offense with no experience in college as a back-up. They pull that scheme, plug spread back in with Bell, then pull that scheme and plug Knight back again with another scheme. Josh Heupel stays with that scheme in 2014, which saw a two year average of 57% from Trevor Knight.

56% high school, 57% OU. You can't win many games against pass happy teams with a QB throwing those numbers.

The starting QB that takes the field next season will clear the air on this whole argument of the chicken or the egg.

Receivers named Sterling, Neal, Quick, Todd, and Mead will be on the field as well.







This post was edited on 1/28 2:43 PM by JMISASANO

And??? Was the receiver play last season exceptable? Just a simple yes or no....

 

[JMISASANO]

Originally posted by BillyRay:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:


Dominique Reed is a freak'n stud. Wow, I sure hope he chooses elsewhere.

And, don't worry about BillyRay, he truly believes JUCOs don't need development.

I don't want to spoil his flawed argument by telling him that the NFL has WR position coaches developing NFL talent.

Norvell sucked while at OU.



This post was edited on 1/28 2:45 PM by BillyRay

Jay Norvell's glaring stats proves otherwise even in comparison with those at UT and Bama during the same period.

Analytical capacity isn't your best attribute.

Paul, Charlie and I agree on that fact.

 

[larwilli]

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by rush4life:

Originally posted by JMISASANO:

Originally posted by rush4life:
JMISASANO, I see your numbers and they are credible. Definitely give you some ammo for a debate. But look at it from this point of view. Let's take Heupel the OC out of the equation and just like at Heupel the QB coach. Let's preface by saying QB is different to coach then WR but just for debates sake i'll bring it up. He had Paul Thompson, Sam Bradford, Landry Jones, and the recent crop of QBs. Paul, great team player but wasn't a QB. Sam and Landry? Enough said. Then you go to our recent crop of QBs. Bell gets moved to TE and TK regressed. TK gets hurt and we plug in Cody Thomas who looks horrible as a passer. After the Sam and Landry the development was piss poor. What makes matters worse is when you have a school like Zero State who plugs their 3rd string QB in big games and he looks like a baller. I feel Heupel should have been fired for QB development alone. Did the receivers stats for Jay that you provided look good? Yes. But when you have a handful of guys that are good that didn't come from a JUCO and then the replacement players that are highly ranked out of high school lay duds and don't produce, it looks bad when other schools are doing the opposite. I like Jay and wish him the best and I feel he should be there before guys like Kish. But the WR product last year was so bad that it had to be addressed. Just my 2 cents.


This post was edited on 1/28 2:05 PM by rush4life

Josh Heupel as a position QB coach in the spread was not an issue with Kevin Wilson helping him recruit QBs.

Josh Heupel as a Co-OC and Playcaller of his newly schemed offense was the issue.

And I agree to a certain extent, but you have to admit. It wasn't a coincidence that the passing game was nil once Sterling got hurt. That can't reflect good on the other receivers and the WR coach.

And...

It's not entirely Josh Heupel's fault. Someone approved his change in offensive philosophy, allowing him to spend a summer on a tour learning about the read option. That's an offense he had no experience coaching within.

He then takes a QB that has a high school % of 56% to step in as a RFr in 2013 to run that offense with no experience in college as a back-up. They pull that scheme, plug spread back in with Bell, then pull that scheme and plug Knight back again with another scheme. Josh Heupel stays with that scheme in 2014, which saw a two year average of 57% from Trevor Knight.

56% high school, 57% OU. You can't win many games against pass happy teams with a QB throwing those numbers.

The starting QB that takes the field next season will clear the air on this whole argument of the chicken or the egg.

Receivers named Sterling, Neal, Quick, Todd, and Mead will be on the field as well.








This post was edited on 1/28 2:43 PM by JMISASANO

I agree, that receivers named Sterling, Neal, Quick, Todd, and Mead will be on the field next year.
That was the purpose of firing Norvell so OU can hire a WR coach to develop them so they're productive when they're on the field. No one ever said Norvell couldn't recruit.