He was walking away. She shoved him. Then slapped him.
Which part do you fail to comprehend?
Mixon tape has been released
- Thread starter BawlzDeep
- Start date
Which part do you fail to comprehend?
You are now comparing a child with a 20 year old college student... So if the 20 year old is expected to be given a pass for having the brain of a 4th grader, is the 18 year old now a second grader?
To the point, I haven't seen anyone condone his behavior, nor celebrate it. The reaction was over the top and unnecessary.
I feel that the point many of us are trying to make here is that, with the video evidence now come to light, we see who the instigator was. Who motioned him to come to the table. Who was was confrontational and who was relaxed (body language). Who shoved first, then struck first. And all this considered we're demanding an barely 18 year old kid to make the correct judgement call in a split second? And because he didn't he is undeserving of a second chance? And some that now just because it's been visually made public he should be punished some more?
How many wrongs does it take to make a right?
I feel that the point many of us are trying to make here is that, with the video evidence now come to light, we see who the instigator was. Who motioned him to come to the table. Who was was confrontational and who was relaxed (body language). Who shoved first, then struck first. And all this considered we're demanding an barely 18 year old kid to make the correct judgement call in a split second? And because he didn't he is undeserving of a second chance? And some that now just because it's been visually made public he should be punished some more?
How many wrongs does it take to make a right?
So she was publicly intoxicated as a minor, a misdemeanor. She also had an active warrant.
And, he responded by freakishly knocking the crap out of her when there were better humanitarian/moral alternatives clearly available.
Some here seem to take the position that it is ok to match relatively harmless and minor transgressions with a reactionary and extremely unequal violent response. They then hide behind legal rhetoric to justify their stance. Kind of like a first time offender for minor shoplifting being deserving of a decades long prison sentence.
Pride goeth before a fall it would seem for Mixon. Walking away or mildly restraining her or reporting to the police was seemingly not the macho thing to do. Thuggish behavior instead prevailed. His true nature was apparent by his reactions during the altercation and afterwards as he was exiting the restaurant.
It seems to me that you might be in need of glasses. Maybe not. Perhaps it really is me that is in need.
He stopped and turned back towards her before any contact was made as he obviously detected her advance. The situation was CLEARLY his to avoid especially if he was sober.
He has made his bed and will obviously lie in it. The problem is more than that as Stoops and Administration are being perceived as jumping under the covers with him.
The court of public opinion will not likely be kind to OU.
http://newsok.com/article/5133937
A bench warrant was issued for Molitor on July 24 in an April 2013 charge of possession of hydrocodone, drug paraphernalia and possession of a false identification card.
Molitor's bench warrant was recalled with the appearance and further action in her case is scheduled for Aug. 26.
Norman Police said last week that it would likely be late this week at the earliest before a decision on whether or not charges would be filed in the July 26 incident was reached.
A bench warrant was issued for Molitor on July 24 in an April 2013 charge of possession of hydrocodone, drug paraphernalia and possession of a false identification card.
Molitor's bench warrant was recalled with the appearance and further action in her case is scheduled for Aug. 26.
Norman Police said last week that it would likely be late this week at the earliest before a decision on whether or not charges would be filed in the July 26 incident was reached.
I would ask, how hard is it to do the right thing?
His age is not a true exemption from doing the right thing as he was clearly old enough. I know this is not what you are implying and most of your points, to me, have solid merit.
As I said earlier, the ones living under rocks are just here to stir up crap. If Mixon were their son they would have sued the University because they would have thought the penalty was too harsh. Of course all the idiots coming here are saints as are their teams players and former players, coaches and assistants and fans. They have never made a mistake in their life! Oh the humanity of it all, we have Saints of Saints of Saints in our midst. Bow down everyone to the ones coming here without sin.
So she was publicly intoxicated as a minor, a misdemeanor. She also had an active warrant.
Anyone have her number? I like my women to be rough with me
I fail to see your point as it relates to the restaurant altercation. It wouldn't be the first time for me that I failed to see what may have been another's valid reasoning.
Humanity has made it evident that doing the right thing is regularly difficult.
Making a mistake in judgement in a situation spanning a matter of seconds leaves us with only the ability to what we hoped we would have done. With no surity could we guarantee what we would have done, even if this were an experiment played out X number of times.
What's left here is this: the incident was over 2 years, settled legally short of a final civil suit. All who cared to know, and I can't imagine an avid Sooner fan who didn't, were aware of what happened, the extent of her injuries, and the extent of his punishment. Public access to the video should change nothing to those who had previously fully digested this.
So... You don't know the personal effects of alcohol/drugs, yet you know how someone should act when confronted by an intoxicated person? That is funny. You excuse her behavior and crime and want to hang Mixon a second time for his...
Police train on how to deal with people like her... Stop the threat. Don't believe me?
What happens when people mix alcohol and drugs? Not sure? Different things?
At the time of the altercation, Molitor had an active warrant for possession of hydrocodone, drug paraphernalia, etc...
She isn't and has never been some little innocent princess. What do the videos say?
You want to talk morals and all this holier than thou crap, yet the little princess initiates this. Why don't you go into West Dallas and see how the culture is different? Go hang with some Crips in Ft. Worth.
"Oh, but those are thugs" you might say. How do you know? Are all of them? Many of them slap and/or beat the crap out of a woman for a lot less. That doesn't make any of this right, yet I really doubt you have taken a single step in the shoes of a Joe Mixon, much less walked a mile in them...
I respectfully disagree with your first sentence above regarding doing the right thing is regularly difficult. It depends, I guess, on one's moral compass, mental conditioning and upbringing.
What he did was not, to me, merely a judgmental mistake. Maybe that is how one settles disputes on the Left and East coasts but certainly not elsewhere. His was, to me, more of a programmed-conditioned response in which perceived or real aggression - no matter the degree - is simply, again to me, to be met with violent aggression. He seemingly can't distinguish his "off the field" behaviors from his "on the field". Hope I'm wrong.
If I were in that restaurant situation - which has also been expressed similarly by numerous posters in this thread - I wouldn't have reacted violently towards a woman who poses no real physical threat to me. I know some here will see this view as being self-righteous. It simply is how nearly everyone in a similar position would react to such a female-male altercation. That is simply the moral compass of the majority.
You're right in that in the legal realm, the matter has been reduced to civil and not criminal issues. How much does that really matter to the perception outside of Sooner nation?
I don't think anyone knew all the parameters of the matter and we were left with a whole lot of speculation as to the provocation that resulted in the incident. We were basically informed that it was a self-defense matter with Molitor suffering severe injuries to none for Mixon. All but a very select few were allowed to see the video until two days ago. So you can't really state that Sooner fans - or most anyone else - had a definitive or relatively complete understanding of what actually happened. For the most part, that has recently changed and the court of public opinion has swayed greatly upon disclosure of the video.
This video was certainly bad for Molitor as regards to assault. But, to me, it will be far, far worse for Joe, OUr university, and OUr football program. Just how bad remains to be seen but early analysis is not favorable to the Sooner nation.
I apologize - especially to medic - for the lengthy response.
How hard is it for her to do the right thing? Shouldn't she know better by this point? Did the judge not explain it well enough when she was put on probation? What about her probation officer? What about her teachers? Did she just not learn from her prior experiences?
At what point does she become the one accountable for her actions?
I can guarantee if I was on probation with an active warrant, I wouldn't be putting my hands on a stranger at a restaurant.
I can only speculate on such effects and subsequent reactions. As I previously stated, I have a high degree of ignorance in such matters. As to how someone should react, I can only opine as to what I saw in the video and project my own reasoning which admittedly is heavily biased based on my upbringing, moral compass and reasoning abilities. As always, my opinion is subject to being flawed but I don't see it in this matter as I consider myself to be a reasonably prudent person. Perhaps I am giving myself too much credit.
When did I excuse her behavior? She clearly assaulted Joe. I differ only as to the degree and whether Joe was justified in his specific response. His response, to me, was so extreme and egregious when compared to her actions. This is why I believe Joe is a present cancer to our program for his reaction and will be harshly treated in the civil matter and perhaps in the NFL draft. His was not a PC reaction and with, I believe, the civil case being heard in California is not advantageous to Joe's situation.
My son is a local police sergeant and their training is such that their response in a perceived hostile situation has to reasonably match the threat. It clearly - at least to me - didn't in the restaurant altercation. I believe Joe is in deep trouble.
So shoving and slapping a total stranger in a restaurant was the right thing to do, according to the quality upbringing she had to condition her very mental moral compass?
I can only speculate that she was in an altered state at that moment which may have fueled her apparent irrational behavior. Again, I don't possess any expertise in such matters so I am just opining what I consider a reasonable guess.
No matter her state of mind, she didn't deserve Joe's response, imho, based on what I saw in the video. For the record, I never posted she was not accountable for her actions. IMHO, she was not deserving of Joe's reaction to a phantom and overstated threat.
As for your last sentence above, I would be just as rational as you opined. But again, her response clearly did not warrant such aggression as displayed by Joe.
Of course. It didn't, however, justify such a beat down that you seem to be OK with.
Wow! Whoever said shoving and slapping ANYONE was "the right thing to do"? You really extracted that analysis from my postings?
The civil case has been moved to Oklahoma.
My brother was a cop for over 20 years and is now a lawyer. First things first. She assaulted him. An immediate reaction to an assault is not retaliation, it is self defense.
The law doesn't differentiate genders. It does define the crime, and she did indeed commit a crime. His response was to strike back. Is he supposed to know how hard to hit her? Cops are trained, yet even they can't tell you exactly how to stop every threat. Some would say to shove her away and taser her, while others would tackle her or strike her. One thing is for sure, if she did that to a cop, she'd be in jail.
I got that from your postings because you keep talking about "moral compass, etc..."
The law has no gender specific parts to it. It is clear. She committed assault. You've said so yourself...
Where is your moral compass? Why? Because these are the facts. 1. She is on probation. 2. She has an active warrant. 3. She has assaulted another human being.
First, why are we up so late?
Thanks for the info on the civil case being moved.
As for your brother, how long has he been out of law enforcement? Just curious. Sounds like a good man.
Yes, she did assault him according to legal language. It also might qualify as self-defense in the literal application of the legal language. Thus, no criminal charges to be pursued. I have no problem with this. Again, my problem is in regards to the amount of force Joe used to repel such a benign provocation. This is what the civil phase will deal with where matters are not so black and white. Emotions heavily come into play. Joe has escaped the criminal bullet but I feel he will not be so fortunate in the civil case. Just my opinion for what it's worth.
Government law should not differentiate genders and I believe the law is specific in this regard. I don't take issue with this as man's laws are to be followed. It has been written about mankind's law - and I am paraphrasing, - "render unto Caesar what is his". I happen to also subscribe to the other part as well which paraphrased reveals, "and render unto the Lord what is his." This is my moral compass and it seems to work for me. If it doesn't work for others, I am OK with that. One doesn't have to be spiritual to discern right from wrong.
"Is he supposed to know how hard to hit her?" Of course just as he is accountable for reasonable alternatives to violence. One size doesn't fit all. You disagree? Responses to perceived or real threats is based on what is considered "reasonable" to deter/end potential hostile situations.
In this time in history, there is usually a significant price to pay for overreactions. I guess the courts will decide if Joe went too far. But, the damage has already begun outside the legal realm and is gaining sustained momentum at least in the short term from the court of public opinion. You disagree? Maybe I'm wrong.
One hit can be a beat down especially in an over-balanced situation. At least, that's my opinion. You obviously disagree. I'm OK with that.
So you seem to have an issue with the term "moral compass"? What term would you prefer?
Are you implying it has no existence?
Look above and elsewhere in this thread for my "moral compass". What does your above "1, 2, and 3" have anything to do with the restaurant situation?
Don't you hate it when someone responds to questions with questions of their own?
Well, had she done that to my wife or sisters-n-law, she would have been shot.
You use "moral compass" as if Joe Mixon needs to abide by the same one you reference, yet you don't apply that to Molitor. 1, 2, and 3 are facts at the time of the altercation. I provided the links.
So yes, it exists... when you want to apply it. Go to the Riverside area of Ft. Worth or to the Hampton Road/Singleton area of Dallas and apply it. See how that works out for you.
Does your moral compass include manners? Go to Wal-Mart and see how popular that is.
Maybe so.
But, there are always consequences - legally and otherwise - to our societal actions. Someone will judge us within the appropriate venue on whether our responses are "reasonable" especially when the legal language and its application is not so literal, the integrity and ethics of the involved lawyers is considered, and whether juries are utilized. And then, there is the "moral" aspect, of course, if one believes in it.
I'm tired. How 'bout you?
I'm up watching football still... Texas HS State Championships all day, bowl games, etc...
My brother still retains his peace officer status, could use it if a prosecutor or certain other duties. He's been a lawyer for a few years, in Ft. Worth, lol...
The problem I have with this whole situation. He was assaulted. He was then charged. He served a year probation, a year suspension, etc... buttttttttt... She hasn't been charged. This and the other lingering issues she had, and yet her actions get nothing?
I call b.s. on it. If you are already on probation, with an active warrant, should you then get a free pass on assault?
If it indeed were Joe's programmed response to react with violent aggression against all perceived threats or aggression, wouldn't it follow that he would have been in another, if not several, physical altercations over nearly 3 years in Norman?
I feel like I could safely guess that he's been taunted, threatened, or worse, since this incident with Molitor, and if he truly were a violent natured person, he would have lost his composure somewhere else along the way.
I think it's much safer to bet that this was an aberration rather than the norm.
I am glad you are interested as to my thoughts regarding a "moral compass". This is just my opinion and beliefs. Again, one size does not fit all and it can be difficult to define as we don't all have the same faith, values and belief systems.
I guess it's comprised of many things. I would think that time proven, recognized and preferred interactive societal norms, values and laws certainly are included. "Moral" considers conscience issues of right and wrong. Even they can be difficult to pin down because of differing beliefs and values. "Compass" is the direction in which one leans on these points. Whether we embrace those values is an individual decision but there are certainly consequences dependent upon one's compliance to these established societal norms and values.
As for me, I follow my faith and the laws of governance to the best of my abilities. Manners are absolutely included. That said, I can only speak for myself as to what I believe. And, that's how I believe it should be. I have my compass and Joe and Molitor have theirs.
Again, those facts 1, 2, and 3 are irrelevant to the video. Different issues.
Good question.
I wouldn't say her actions got nothing. She got a caved in face but I also see your point. Maybe she will be legally charged when her hearing comes up. Seems appropriate. But again, even if she is legally dealt with, those matters are irrelevant to the actions taken by Joe, imho.
Your brother is quite accomplished. As a peace officer, he is in my prayers.
Your opinion appears plausible on the surface and I hope you are right.
Perhaps he is on a short and tight leash and his actions are significantly monitored and supervised. Perhaps he has a shadow(s). Of course, a skeptical person might conclude he has had other altercations beyond the restaurant and parking ticket incidents (2 offenses that I believe would not occur with the overwhelming majority of campus population) and they have simply been hushed up. Oh wait, that's what happens in Waco and Austin. Never mind.
I would say that he is probably a "violent natured person". Just my opinion. Only time will tell. I hope I am wrong.
Violent natured, no. Short tempered? Maybe. I had an explosive temper at 18, myself. By 20 I had it completely under control, so it can be done.
The person that will suffer the most will be Mixon, he will have to pay for this where ever he goes. Players on other teams, college, NFL will want to get revenge for her. A mark on his character that he will live with. This will never go away, who knows what the future will be for him. Just because she is drunk and out of control. He was celebrating his 18th birthday and look what happened.
Very good points....Mixon is stained for life, Stoops' legacy is tarnished, OU's football program is condemned and Oklahoma University gets a black eye. No winners. Only losers.
Yet there's intense debate about who is to blame between Molitor and Mixon or why Mixon should or should not have walked away (or even entered the restaurant) that fateful night.
Nothing can change what happened.
It's what lies ahead for Mixon and OU that matters now.
Blame the victim...it's always been the OU and Baylor way
I haven't blamed the victim. I blamed the instigator.
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