Heupel = Mizzou Tiger

[BillyRay]

I'm certainty happy to have Coach Riley calling plays but he's obviously been given a longer leash than Heupel ever got, and I wouldn't question for a second that it has a little to do with Bob swallowing some pride and letting his offensive coordinator do what he was hired to do.

That is 100% completely false. Heupel was given a pretty wide leash too, considering what happened during the TTech game last year. It was obvious to pretty much every OU fan in the country, and most on here, that OU should have been running the football in the 1st half. But nope...JH just kept trying to throw, throw, throw. You aren't a pay member so I'm assuming you never heard about it, but Carey reported that during halftime of that game you could hear Bob Stoops yelling at JH behind closed doors about "why aren't we running the damn football!!!" If JH didn't have a loose leash, then Bob would have been micro-managing him during the game before they even got to halftime. But Bob let him do his job and didn't get in the way during the game. But that incident alone gives some insight that Bob simply wasn't happy with the job JH was doing. Period.

But I will say this, IF Riley is getting some more room to operate, then that speaks volumes for Bob having more trust and confidence in Riley doing his job than he did in JH doing his job.

Nobody is saying everything last year was JH and Norvells fault. Not one single person is making that claim. But it's pretty clear that Bob wanted to go another direction with someone else. And clearly he didn't think JH was up to the task. Bob has made ALOT more changes in his staff the last 3-4 years outside of just JH and Norvell. Why aren't people on here defending Jackie Shipp?? Why aren't people defending Skittles?? Defending Patton?? Defending BJW being pushed out?? For some reason a select group on here think JH was above being held accountable for his subpar performance.

 

[bcsoonerfan]

I don't recall Josh ever getting to give his quarterbacks the pre-play options Riley has afforded Baker.

And none of those other coaches were the whipping boy of the entitled fan base. There was a time when Josh all but walked on water while Kevin Wilson was orchestrating the most prolific offense in college football.

Heupel left me scratching my head at times too. But I could say that about every coach and player I've ever followed closely enough to make an evidence based judgment call.

 

[BillyRay]

I don't recall Josh ever getting to give his quarterbacks the pre-play options Riley has afforded Baker.

And none of those other coaches were the whipping boy of the entitled fan base. There was a time when Josh all but walked on water while Kevin Wilson was orchestrating the most prolific offense in college football.

Heupel left me scratching my head at times too. But I could say that about every coach and player I've ever followed closely enough to make an evidence based judgment call.

Riley giving Baker that kind of freedom is about the relationship between Riley and Baker....not Bob and Riley. So it really has nothing to do with how much leash Bob has given out here. It's about Riley being able to recognize that Baker can do it. But if Heupel were still here, do you think Baker would have that freedom, or do you think we would see the same ole system with him checking to the sideline and finally getting a play sent in with about 5sec left on the play clock??

And I'm right there with you bc, in that JH left me really scratching my head asking wtf was he thinking. Then the Baylor game came along and Perine getting 5 carries. Then the TTech debacle with JH refusing to run the ball until Bob had to scream at him during halftime. Those were 2 moments when I legitimately thought his job may be at risk and Bob may want to look elsewhere. But even after those events, I didn't think he needed to be fired. But now looking back, I'm glad Bob stepped up to make that change.

 

[SoonerMikee05]

Here is an undeniable trait in the minds of some messed up Sooner fans.

One win or loss can be the difference between the coronation of a king and princes in shining armor, or the exile of villains from the Sooner Nation... ...using the exact same roster and coaching staff.

With a loss, the meltdown occurs. Then they try to make everyone else's life miserable because every ounce of their own self worth goes down the toilet because of losing a freakin' football game. They want everyone to suffer.

So it really comes down to winning or losing. Period.

I'll sit back and watch this all happen over the next 11 to 22 days. It used to bother me. But now I accept it as just another unimportant element of one big screwed up world that we live in that is full of jack asses.

In the mean time, surround yourself with level-headed sane people, and grab a bowl of popcorn.

That's a well thought out post 22. I think of the OC coordinator situation this way. What if JH gets Baker last year? I think he would still be with us. Undeniably Lincoln is the better OC, but my point is, there is an element of luck involved. Look at the second half of TCU, we looked exactly like we looked last year, maybe a little worse.

 

[bcsoonerfan]

Mike turned the defense around around. Maybe Josh would've done the same.

My position was that this program was on the brink of being special again. That there was a thin line between 8-5 and 11-1/12-0. It's not a coincidence that it happened with an accurate quarterback, healthy Shepard and an experienced, aggressive defense.

 

[SoonerMikee05]

Mike turned the defense around around. Maybe Josh would've done the same.

My position was that this program was on the brink of being special again. That there was a thin line between 8-5 and 11-1/12-0. It's not a coincidence that it happened with an accurate quarterback, healthy Shepard and an experienced, aggressive defense.

Absolutely.

 

[SoonerTulsan]

That's a well thought out post 22. I think of the OC coordinator situation this way. What if JH gets Baker last year? I think he would still be with us. Undeniably Lincoln is the better OC, but my point is, there is an element of luck involved. Look at the second half of TCU, we looked exactly like we looked last year, maybe a little worse.

I've posed that very question/thought as well. I love Riley, but with another variation, how would he have done if we didn't have JFW?

Obviously we'll never know, but it's almost shocking to me that some can't see the difference Mayfield has had on our offense.

I'm reminded of the gushing for Coach Heupel after we "fired" Wilson. All the posts celebrating his offensive brilliance and we were FINALLY have an offense that could punch the ball in from inside the 5 on the ground.

I cautioned that you don't just "suddenly" take your offensive personnel that's run a spread/air raid offense for years and convert them to a Power I running offense. Especially the OLine. I didn't know what I was talking about.

I think our first game the next season was against Tulsa. I think I counted 9 running plays on the first two drives inside the five...none of them for TDs. I guess you only "know what you know".

 

[jobea01]

I don't recall Josh ever getting to give his quarterbacks the pre-play options Riley has afforded Baker.

And none of those other coaches were the whipping boy of the entitled fan base. There was a time when Josh all but walked on water while Kevin Wilson was orchestrating the most prolific offense in college football.

Heupel left me scratching my head at times too. But I could say that about every coach and player I've ever followed closely enough to make an evidence based judgment call.

I don't really want to get into this slap fight, but Heupel was a micromanager of the worst kind and would rather read the defenses for the QB's than get them a play with a hot read and then teach them to sort it out. That's why OU was running that stupid meerkat offense that cost OU a freaking ton of time outs, penalty yardage and even a few turnovers. Also on the pay board and even some in open interview talked about the offense having no identity from week to week.

Hell, even when I was playing high school ball, my coach would yell at us telling us that we're not talented enough to half ass it so we had to be great at what we were doing in our assignments. We might run the vier 34 roll out til we were quite literally sick, but we had it down. We ended up going 9-2 and losing to Brandon Daniels and Jeremy Shockey (Ada) in the second round of the play offs. We really weren't all that talented, but what we did, we did well well enough to make up for some of those talent disparities.

 

[barkingwater2000]

I think most of the optimism for Heupel was based solely on his potential. He seemed to be a great QB coach so we figured he would be able to make the transition to OC and be a darn good one. Sadly, we were wrong. He was average at best

 

[BillyRay]

Mike turned the defense around around. Maybe Josh would've done the same.

My position was that this program was on the brink of being special again. That there was a thin line between 8-5 and 11-1/12-0. It's not a coincidence that it happened with an accurate quarterback, healthy Shepard and an experienced, aggressive defense.

I think it's certainly a fair question as to how JH could have done with Baker this year. But an irony to that situation is Baker coming to OU had nothing to do with JH, and in fact Baker deciding on his own to walk on here turned out to be a HUGE blessing for OU. A huge blessing that help correct a situation in JH sucking horribly at recruiting to the QB position. So ya...Baker could have made JH look much better not only on the field, but also to help people forget about JHs horrendous QB recruiting.

 

[jobea01]

I disagree on the recruiting side. He may not have gotten his primary or secondary targets, with the exception of Hansen, but he was always blue chipper top 250 kids. He just wasn't developing them. He'd rather play puppet master than teach them to truly lead the offense. That's probably unfair to say because it possibly wasn't intentional, but he didn't teach them what they should've been learning or let them do what they should've been doing since high school on reading keys like the DE and safety shifts.

 

[BillyRay]

I disagree on the recruiting side. He may not have gotten his primary or secondary targets, with the exception of Hansen, but he was always blue chipper top 250 kids. He just wasn't developing them. He'd rather play puppet master than teach them to truly lead the offense. That's probably unfair to say because it possibly wasn't intentional, but he didn't teach them what they should've been learning or let them do what they should've been doing since high school on reading keys like the DE and safety shifts.

Ya that's a definite way to look at it also. I guess it can either be looked at as not developing them, or just complete misses/busts on recruiting. Just like Blake Bell...that guy came here with prolly more potential than any QB ever recruited in the Bob Stoops era. He ended his playing days as a TE. You can't fail on the development and/or recruiting evaluation any more than that.

edit - forgot about Rhett Bomar. Blake Bell is prolly #2 behind Bomar in terms of potential recruited at QB during the Bob Stoops era.

 

[Yankees03]

Billy wasn't there a game that Stoops got frustrated with heupel and sent a message to the press box to run the ball? Or did I just read that here on scoop as a joke?

 

[BillyRay]

Billy wasn't there a game that Stoops got frustrated with heupel and sent a message to the press box to run the ball? Or did I just read that here on scoop as a joke?

I don't remember hearing anything about sending messages to the press box. But I remember specifically the TTech game last year when everyone was wondering why the eff OU wasn't running the ball in the 1st half, that during halftime in the locker rooms people could hear from behind closed doors Bob Stoops yelling and screaming at JH about why aren't we running the damn ball. Carey Murdock reported that specifically. Oddly enough, OU came out and emphasized running the ball in the 2nd half and just dominated the game!!!

 

[SoonerTulsan]

Then there's the perspective that some kids play great in HS, look terrific in practices, but when they get to D1 with the lights and cameras on, they struggle or lose their confidence. MANY other possibilities. Especially when you consider the guy coached a Heisman winner or two, thinking it's "player development issues" doesn't really make sense...unless one is looking for a reason to be critical or just can't see it.

 

[Yankees03]

Oh ok lol maybe that's what it was

 

[Soonersincefitty]

Then there's the perspective that some kids play great in HS, look terrific in practices, but when they get to D1 with the lights and cameras on, they struggle or lose their confidence. MANY other possibilities. Especially when you consider the guy coached a Heisman winner or two, thinking it's "player development issues" doesn't really make sense...unless one is looking for a reason to be critical or just can't see it.

Yep, some of the most promising recruits never quite get over that 'stage fright' of the D1 game.
Then, you have others that weren't that lauded out of high school embrace it and make it work for them and they just get better and better with time.
Your Sam Bradfords and a litany of others too numerous to name.
Those are the guys that can make a great team. The 3 and 4 star guys that have the heart of a lion.

 

[Yankees03]

I thank God every night Stoops made the necessary changes. Lol. I hope everything works out for Heupel

 

[BillyRay]

I thank God every night Stoops made the necessary changes. Lol. I hope everything works out for Heupel

^^^ Nailed it!!!!!

 

[BillyRay]

Yep, some of the most promising recruits never quite get over that 'stage fright' of the D1 game.
Then, you have others that weren't that lauded out of high school embrace it and make it work for them and they just get better and better with time.
Your Sam Bradfords and a litany of others too numerous to name.
Those are the guys that can make a great team. The 3 and 4 star guys that have the heart of a lion.

Ya...because clearly Blake Bell suffered from stage fright in D1 football and didn't have the heart of a lion.....

 

[SoonerTulsan]

Yep, some of the most promising recruits never quite get over that 'stage fright' of the D1 game.
Then, you have others that weren't that lauded out of high school embrace it and make it work for them and they just get better and better with time.
Your Sam Bradfords and a litany of others too numerous to name.
Those are the guys that can make a great team. The 3 and 4 star guys that have the heart of a lion.

Honestly, I wish it was "black and white" as so many fans tend to think. With the Entitlement Generation on the loose, I think it's only going to get worse. Fortunately, wisdom always prevails.

 

[Soonersincefitty]

Honestly, I wish it was "black and white" as so many fans tend to think. With the Entitlement Generation on the loose, I think it's only going to get worse. Fortunately, wisdom always prevails.

Yep, that's true.
Another thing that's true is I would really like the board to be bereft of the slap fights. Not just for me, but for the hapless readers that come by.

However, as long as there are 2 and sometimes 3 guys here with the chip on their shoulder, it's not happening.

I mean, it's not my fault if they continually feel ostracized by oh so many posters here...that is completely on them and their contrarian stance on every damn issue.
What masochists they must be.

 

[BillyRay]

Yep, that's true.
Another thing that's true is I would really like the board to be bereft of the slap fights. Not just for me, but for the hapless readers that come by.

However, as long as there are 2 and sometimes 3 guys here with the chip on their shoulder, it's not happening.

I mean, it's not my fault if they continually feel ostracized by oh so many posters here...that is completely on them and their contrarian stance on every damn issue.
What masochists they must be.

Coming from the guy that literally MINUTES prior, posted the post below.....

See, ya can't help it can ya...Eff off.

little beotch

 

[barkingwater2000]

Fitty will you be spending the entire Christmas day on the Scoop?

 

[Yankees03]

Fitty is a poster who has wished death on others, he has resorted to cussing and name calling and has drunk posted and deleted it so many times I've lost count. For proof of his immaturity just look at his above comment. Fitty unless you drastically change, you will continue to bring down the board

 

[jobea01]

Honestly, I wish it was "black and white" as so many fans tend to think. With the Entitlement Generation on the loose, I think it's only going to get worse. Fortunately, wisdom always prevails.

Look, I like ya, but if you're going to try to act like there wasn't a difference in performance between players when he was a QB coach and then as an OC, then you're the one with blinders on. Part of it was lack of development and part of it was just his crappy ability to get plays in on time in some crucial situations.

You try to act like the players are all fallible and there is no responsibility by the coach. "Recruit not living up to potential", "stage fright", etc. Maybe it was Heupel with the stage fright as a coach? Ultimately it's a coach's responsibility to get players ready and have them prepared. 1 recruiting "bust", ok it happens everywhere. 2 recruiting "busts" in a row... umm, doubtful. Third recruiting "bust" in a row? That's a trend and it's not a trend I ever see you admitting anything about. That's lack of development and not putting them in a place to succeed.

 

[BillyRay]

I will say this....one thing that's been refreshing this year with Riley compared to last year, is you don't see Riley answering every single question from the media with "well players just have to execute". That was JH's default answer to literally every question he ever answered.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

The difference between Wilson & Huepel...

Wilson accepted a promotion as a HC job w/ a D1 school.
Huepel was terminated and accepted a job w/ a D2 school.

Nothing really else matters... but winning Championships

 

[Yankees03]

Does moses EVER make sense? Lol

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

I will say this....one thing that's been refreshing this year with Riley compared to last year, is you don't see Riley answering every single question from the media with "well players just have to execute". That was JH's default answer to literally every question he ever answered.

Yep, w/ the only loss this year, he took the blame squarely. Said he needed to call a better game etc. It might have been coach speak but it was a huge difference in Huepel. Which I think was the issue all along. Huepel, I don't think was respected by the players, unless it was respect out of fear. I think his style of leadership caught up with him. He wasn't a motivator and/or one that could encourage players. Fast forward to today. This team has a completely different chemistry than last year's team. I recognize that other factors need to be considered such as Mayfield, but there is no doubt that Riley has his footprint all in this team.

 

[22LR]

The difference between White & Huepel...

White accepted a promotion as a HC job w/ a D1 school.
Huepel was terminated and accepted a job w/ a D2 school.

Nothing really else matters... but winning Championships

Who is this White feller? What school did he go to? I'm drawing blanks.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Who is this White feller? What school did he go to? I'm drawing blanks.

Ha! Good catch on the brain fart. I'd like to say it was the EggNog, but unfortunately it wasn't!

 

[BillyRay]

WNAS...you still didn't give a corrected name. Lol

I'm gonna make a guess and say you meant Kevin Wilson??

 

[SoonerTulsan]

Look, I like ya, but if you're going to try to act like there wasn't a difference in performance between players when he was a QB coach and then as an OC, then you're the one with blinders on. Part of it was lack of development and part of it was just his crappy ability to get plays in on time in some crucial situations.

You try to act like the players are all fallible and there is no responsibility by the coach. "Recruit not living up to potential", "stage fright", etc. Maybe it was Heupel with the stage fright as a coach? Ultimately it's a coach's responsibility to get players ready and have them prepared. 1 recruiting "bust", ok it happens everywhere. 2 recruiting "busts" in a row... umm, doubtful. Third recruiting "bust" in a row? That's a trend and it's not a trend I ever see you admitting anything about. That's lack of development and not putting them in a place to succeed.

Look, I like you too, but I don't "act". I say what I mean and mean what I say, so safe to say you're making some assumptions...and you're putting words in my mouth. Thanks for sharing your opinion though.

 

[SoonerTulsan]

The difference between Wilson & Huepel...

I tend to chuckle at the commonalities between them. Like...they both led highly ranked offenses and misguided fans wanted both of them fired. Would think you would empathize with the getting fired part.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

WNAS...you still didn't give a corrected name. Lol

I'm gonna make a guess and say you meant Kevin Wilson??

I had corrected it in the original post. Yes, Kevin Wilson

 

[22LR]

Ha! Good catch on the brain fart. I'd like to say it was the EggNog, but unfortunately it wasn't!

I'm just messing with you. I knew what you were saying.

White is the local OKC TV spokesman for Air Comfort Heating and Cooling Company, a much better job and much less stressful than being a HC.

 

[MUTiger91]

Now what exactly does this have to do with 40 points per game being crappy?? Start your own thread.

Nah, I'll stay here. I watched a little of the Utah St. bowl game yesterday. He clearly wasn't living up the the Heup. He called way too many turnovers in addition to the 3 and outs. Having said that, if he can get Mizzou back to just 30 points a game, we might build him a statue. We wasted a championship caliber defense with a Pop Warner offense this year.

 

[SoonerTulsan]

Nah, I'll stay here. I watched a little of the Utah St. bowl game yesterday. He clearly wasn't living up the the Heup. He called way too many turnovers in addition to the 3 and outs. Having said that, if he can get Mizzou back to just 30 points a game, we might build him a statue. We wasted a championship caliber defense with a Pop Warner offense this year.

LOL, yeah we have fans here that go NUTS when our OC's call turnover plays. I think it makes the game more exciting and gives us a chance to see what the team will do facing a little adversity.

 

[stuck in del rio]

Billy wasn't there a game that Stoops got frustrated with heupel and sent a message to the press box to run the ball? Or did I just read that here on scoop as a joke?

Why would he have sent a message to the press box? They have headsets.