Plaino I almost always enjoy your takes on OU football related matters; your delivery leaves alot to be desired...kind of like the defense the past couple of years. You can make a point without being a rick.
OU-Kansas game thread.
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Plaino I almost always enjoy your takes on OU football related matters; your delivery leaves alot to be desired...kind of like the defense the past couple of years. You can make a point without being a rick.
In the early 1960’s, OU was affected by probation and, according to Bud Wilkinson, by OU not utilizing jet travel as much as it needed to in its recruiting....and DKR’s great coaching and recruiting at Texas. OU lost 12 of 13 games to Royal from 1958-1970. That might have been more damaging to OU’s football fortunes than little brother OSU joining the Big 8. Nebraska’s resurgence under Devaney was another factor in ousting OU from its title of “Oklahoma and the Seven Dwarfs”.
But Devaney's resurgence was possible because OU took a dip by splitting instate talent in a time when DKR was driving Texas to a great decade. The guys who were recruited in the probation year of 1960 and 61 were a great class. The seniors in 1964 like Neely, Rentzel, Grisham and several others put us in a opportunity to compete for a national championship. But Texas whipped OUr butts, and we played Notre Dame and got handled two or three times. But overall, we lost instate guys and OSU got to be good enough in the mid 60's to beat us back to back.
The Huskers were surely a factor. BTW, OU was still 6-4 vs the Huskers in the 1960's. It's just a lousy idea dilute our recruiting prospects by adding schools in our primary "home base" for recruiting. The fact that Those schools would bring nothing to the conference that isn't already there, makes inviting them in an even worse idea.
But the biggest thing I object to, is the take on KU. Do they suck in football right now? They absolutely do. But we sucked for close to a decade in football. It was not to the point that they are. But a conference is about more than one sport. And the whole thing about deleting a school that has been our conference rival since 1903 and played 121 times, over 100 of those consecutively just in football, pisses me off.
Sooner Soldier, I appreciate your soft admonition, and even more, your service. But the idea of tossing aside old rivalries deserves at least a little harshness. Those rivalries are the essence of college football. Too much is already being uprooted this season, unfortunately.
The Huskers were surely a factor. BTW, OU was still 6-4 vs the Huskers in the 1960's. It's just a lousy idea dilute our recruiting prospects by adding schools in our primary "home base" for recruiting. The fact that Those schools would bring nothing to the conference that isn't already there, makes inviting them in an even worse idea.
But the biggest thing I object to, is the take on KU. Do they suck in football right now? They absolutely do. But we sucked for close to a decade in football. It was not to the point that they are. But a conference is about more than one sport. And the whole thing about deleting a school that has been our conference rival since 1903 and played 121 times, over 100 of those consecutively just in football, pisses me off.
Sooner Soldier, I appreciate your soft admonition, and even more, your service. But the idea of tossing aside old rivalries deserves at least a little harshness. Those rivalries are the essence of college football. Too much is already being uprooted this season, unfortunately.
OSU was 35-62-2 from 1960-69 with not a single winning season, so I'm not sure they put much of a dent in OU's recruiting in that decade.
The two wins by the Cowboys over OU in 1965 and 1966 were clearly a case of OU fielding weak (1965) and young, rebuilding (1966) teams, not because OSU was very good.
Kansas may turn the corner in 3-4 years under Miles. I hope so. My preference on a more realistic note, is for Kansas to become competitive again and stay in the Big 12, especially since expansion isn't happening.
For the record, there is no way OU ever had so long of a drought like Kansas, who has not won more than 3 games in a season since 2009, when they won 5 games. As bad as the 1990's were for OU, there were only 3 losing seasons (1996-97-98) with a coach who was clearly in over his head.
I have seen some great games between OU and Kansas over the years and would prefer to see more such games.
Sports is very much in an constant evolving mode. Teams with great histories can fade into mediocrity and teams that have had little or no success can suddenly rise up to be competitive, as this year's top 25 reflects.
Plaino, I'm here to talk football which can involve speculation, sometimes based on hypothetical scenarios, which is what I did in suggesting bringing new teams into the conference. Getting "pissed off" about it is a waste of energy.
The two wins by the Cowboys over OU in 1965 and 1966 were clearly a case of OU fielding weak (1965) and young, rebuilding (1966) teams, not because OSU was very good.
Kansas may turn the corner in 3-4 years under Miles. I hope so. My preference on a more realistic note, is for Kansas to become competitive again and stay in the Big 12, especially since expansion isn't happening.
For the record, there is no way OU ever had so long of a drought like Kansas, who has not won more than 3 games in a season since 2009, when they won 5 games. As bad as the 1990's were for OU, there were only 3 losing seasons (1996-97-98) with a coach who was clearly in over his head.
I have seen some great games between OU and Kansas over the years and would prefer to see more such games.
Sports is very much in an constant evolving mode. Teams with great histories can fade into mediocrity and teams that have had little or no success can suddenly rise up to be competitive, as this year's top 25 reflects.
Plaino, I'm here to talk football which can involve speculation, sometimes based on hypothetical scenarios, which is what I did in suggesting bringing new teams into the conference. Getting "pissed off" about it is a waste of energy.
OU beat undefeated Nebraska the week before they lost to OSU. They had started 4-0 before getting thumped by Notre Dame, and getting beat up that day. In particular, Granville Liggins, the key to the team's defense, got hurt. Since OSU beat OU back to back, they made some dent.
You want to make everything about football. And it is incredible that an apparently intelligent guy, would possibly think that SMU could possibly be better long term or short for any conference, than Kansas. KU is easily one of the top five basketball schools in the country. And while they are going through a dry spell in football right now, they are still a much much better member than SMU. I've been to a dozen SMU football games over the years. Except for Arkansas in the last season of the Pony Express, the best attendance was around 45,000 in 1965. These days, they would have by far, the smallest football stadium in the conference, and fill it half way, more than half the time. And they have barely as many students in their whole student body, as OU has in most seasons without COVID in the student section at the stadium.
I've lived in the Dallas suburbs since before the Dallas Cowboys played in a playoff game. Dallas doesn't give a flying flip about SMU football, or any other sport. SMU in a good season, probably has more football fans in Connecticut than in Dallas, outside of Highland Park.
One major difference between you and me. I want the Big 12 and to succeed. You really don't Your goal is for OU to end up elsewhere. I understand I'm in a minority on this board as it relates to that. But I'm almost certain that a super majority of OUr entire athletic staff wants to be in the Big XII< and wants it to be strong. And you'd find very few there, or in other conference schools to bring in SMU. They do nothing for the conference.
You want to make everything about football. And it is incredible that an apparently intelligent guy, would possibly think that SMU could possibly be better long term or short for any conference, than Kansas. KU is easily one of the top five basketball schools in the country. And while they are going through a dry spell in football right now, they are still a much much better member than SMU. I've been to a dozen SMU football games over the years. Except for Arkansas in the last season of the Pony Express, the best attendance was around 45,000 in 1965. These days, they would have by far, the smallest football stadium in the conference, and fill it half way, more than half the time. And they have barely as many students in their whole student body, as OU has in most seasons without COVID in the student section at the stadium.
I've lived in the Dallas suburbs since before the Dallas Cowboys played in a playoff game. Dallas doesn't give a flying flip about SMU football, or any other sport. SMU in a good season, probably has more football fans in Connecticut than in Dallas, outside of Highland Park.
One major difference between you and me. I want the Big 12 and to succeed. You really don't Your goal is for OU to end up elsewhere. I understand I'm in a minority on this board as it relates to that. But I'm almost certain that a super majority of OUr entire athletic staff wants to be in the Big XII< and wants it to be strong. And you'd find very few there, or in other conference schools to bring in SMU. They do nothing for the conference.
I do want the Big 12 to live on, but I prefer that it elevates itself along side the SEC and Big 10. A stronger Big 12 would make OU stronger. And I have seen enough of OU's postseason failures in this century.
I'm not an SMU fan and don't care if it ever joins the Big 12. Again....and again...I was only speculating on SMU's future. Like Houston, where I've lived for 1/3 of my life, SMU plays in one of the nation's top ten largest cities, playing in the shadows of the Dallas Cowboys and having higher academic standards. So SMU (like Rice) will never maintain a level of excellence like OU, Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, etc. Urban area college teams historically don't attract fans. Cities are melting pots with outsiders coming in all the time and those fans are more about professional sports teams. USC is the only great urban program I know of that has a strong and long standing history.....and they have struggled recently.
I don't need a history lesson on OU's football history and the history of the Big 8 and Big 12.
In 1966, Nebraska blew through a weak schedule, playing only two teams with winning records (Colorado/Missouri-both with three losses) before losing to OU in Norman 10-9. Then the Huskers were embarrassed by Alabama 34-7 in the Orange Bowl. So Nebraska was more of a paper tiger than an elite team and was primed to be upset by OU, a team a year away from having a great team in 1967.
OSU won two consecutive games during the 1960's against OU teams that simply were not very good. OU was never out-recruited by OSU and never has been as the 78-27-6 series record indicates. That has not kept OSU from occasionally upsetting OU however.
I expressed an opinion based on what really was just speculation. You somehow chose to mistakenly regard my words as wanting the Big 12 to fail. Not true.
I'm not an SMU fan and don't care if it ever joins the Big 12. Again....and again...I was only speculating on SMU's future. Like Houston, where I've lived for 1/3 of my life, SMU plays in one of the nation's top ten largest cities, playing in the shadows of the Dallas Cowboys and having higher academic standards. So SMU (like Rice) will never maintain a level of excellence like OU, Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, etc. Urban area college teams historically don't attract fans. Cities are melting pots with outsiders coming in all the time and those fans are more about professional sports teams. USC is the only great urban program I know of that has a strong and long standing history.....and they have struggled recently.
I don't need a history lesson on OU's football history and the history of the Big 8 and Big 12.
In 1966, Nebraska blew through a weak schedule, playing only two teams with winning records (Colorado/Missouri-both with three losses) before losing to OU in Norman 10-9. Then the Huskers were embarrassed by Alabama 34-7 in the Orange Bowl. So Nebraska was more of a paper tiger than an elite team and was primed to be upset by OU, a team a year away from having a great team in 1967.
OSU won two consecutive games during the 1960's against OU teams that simply were not very good. OU was never out-recruited by OSU and never has been as the 78-27-6 series record indicates. That has not kept OSU from occasionally upsetting OU however.
I expressed an opinion based on what really was just speculation. You somehow chose to mistakenly regard my words as wanting the Big 12 to fail. Not true.
When the media contracts come up for renewal I expect OU to makes it's move. The options all present pluses and minuses. I'd love to see us in the SEC West with UT in the Big 10 & our annual game a non-conference game as it was. I could see us in the Big 10 West with Texas but that might not be best for recruiting. Finally, there is the possibility of a merger with the cream of the Big 12 and PAC-12 into a conference that would own the country west of the Mississippi and rival the SEC in strength.swas
It helps having a new president probably. Boren was a lifelong politician, so I suspect he was likely influenced some by connections and familiarity. Sometimes you might not be the best situation, but you find comfort in knowing what the failures will be to expect. That's the political way.
I'm worried Castiglione has a bit of that personality too, but I don't know who will ultimately have the most influence in a decision. I'm also not familiar enough with the new president to know if he's the type to take risk and make big moves.
I'm worried Castiglione has a bit of that personality too, but I don't know who will ultimately have the most influence in a decision. I'm also not familiar enough with the new president to know if he's the type to take risk and make big moves.
You guys are killing me with the remembrances of Sooner football in the 60s... The 1966 OSU game in particular is one that has scarred me forever. My parents travelled to that game in Stillwater (their first away game ever), leaving my brother and I alone to watch the game on our 19" black and white TV at home in Norman. It was simply horrendous...
Having said that, I also remember the Orange Bowl a little over a year later where OU beat Tennessee (unfortunately after I had gone to bed haha).
Having said that, I also remember the Orange Bowl a little over a year later where OU beat Tennessee (unfortunately after I had gone to bed haha).
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OU would face a tougher road to a championship playing in the SEC, but would probably expand its recruiting base in the South like never before.
My hypothetical wish is for the Big 12 to become a 12-team conference with Nebraska and a team like Louisville, ATM, Arkansas, or Missouri added.
Texas ruined what was a very good conference with ATM and Nebraska in it. It gave OU FOUR top rivalries in OSU, Texas, ATM and Nebraska (which I believe would have maintained its elite status by staying put). What other team in CFB would have had this ?
I just don't see these other teams leaving their current conferences, especially the SEC members. Where are things less stable...PAC 12. I think skimming the cream out there and kicking WVU and TCU to the curb are very likely.
No, I don't either.
My wish on Big-12 expansion, as stated, was hypothetical, though someone might not pick up on that.
I sure as hell don't want OU to migrate to the PAC-12.
TCU and West Virginia should not be purged from the Big-12 as they are usually competitive in football.
The conferences needs to be scrapped and started all over by geography. SEC is the SE part of the country to include Miami and FSU. Big 10 same by adding Syracuse and some of the ACC teams like VT. Big 12 adds Minnesota, Wisc, Neb and Iowa. West Coast gets divided into North & South that will include Boise State in the north and New Mexico in the south.
I think OU blends well with the PAC 12. I would like to see AZ schools come to Big 12.
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