OU-Kansas game thread.

[Plainosooner]

Woody, they were actually pretty good in my teen years. Early 60's, they had John Hadl, Curtis McClinton and Bert Coan. All played in NFL backfields.

Mid 60's, Gale Sayers made a headline or two.

OU beat Kansas in 1967, but ended up in a tie for first in the Big 8. KU's best running back was John Riggins, I think his sophomore year. They had two quality defensive ends, who got a little time in pro football. John's big brother was a big name. Kansas got the Orange Bowl because they were 9-1 and we were 7-3. One of the losses was a rout at Notre Dame. Pepper Rogers was the Jayhawk coach.

The last half of the 90's, they were better than us. Glenn Mason was their head coach when they were. 3-0 against OU, beating us by the combined 110-58. So they were relevant occasionally. And Mangino did a great job there in this century.

 

[kcstorm06]

Anyone else think Stephenson makes this team look like a different team when he’s in there, even on defense? The guy is a game changer!

Rhamobdre is a man among boys out there....kind of Perine like. He is a real difference maker. He owned up for his mistake and that earned my respect. Glad he is able to contribute and hope he sticks around one more year.

 

[CTOkie]

Those Kansas teams of 1964 (Gayle Sayers) and 1975 (Nolan Cromwell) were a bit of a problem for OU as well.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Guys I was being a bit facetious towards the jayhawks. Imo, they seem to have evolved into strictly a basketball program and after 40 years of football mediocrity, my take is they couldn't handle the success Mangino built seemingly overnight. It was great to see and great for the conference. I like Mangino and hated seeing him leave under the cloudy circumstances. I know Kansas had produced some great players but the 60's were just ahead of my time. Early 70's for me, man was that a good time. Plaino and Ct and others, your knowledge and experiences are invaluable and appreciated and add real depth to the board, keep it up. 👍

BOOMER!

 

[CTOkie]

Just curious, what 3 teams would you like to see join the Big 12 if Kansas is eliminated.
My preference in a "perfect world" (meaning it will never happen) would be Arkansas, SMU, Texas A & M. ....and this maintains a geographical integrity, outside of West Virginia.

 

[humblesooner]

Just curious, what 3 teams would you like to see join the Big 12 if Kansas is eliminated.
My preference in a "perfect world" (meaning it will never happen) would be Arkansas, SMU, Texas A & M. ....and this maintains a geographical integrity, outside of West Virginia.

Not SMU. Maybe a Memphis, or Cincy or someone along those lines, Would replace KU BB program and helps fill in between the B12 and W. Va.

 

[veritas59]

This is Kansas..... or a future State of the Union address:

 

[kcstorm06]

He is delusional just like the big guy who can’t even remember where he is.

 

[DallasSooner73]

Stevenson has dealt with a lot of injuries in his career. He essentially missed most of his senior year of high school. Then after graduation, sat out for a year before going juco. But he's obviously a talent. You really can't tell if he's elite or not, just yet. Tech and Kansas haven't stopped much of anybody. But he'll get the chance. OSU is a pretty good defense. They will test our offensive line, and our running backs. And we have a pretty good chance to make the CCG. There will be a good defensive team there, waiting for us. And West Virginia plays good defense.

But those who see how much difference he makes, are right on. He looks to me like a player, who is playing himself into the top half of the NFL draft. If he stays, and plays a great season, next year, he might make himself a whole lot of money.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

This is Kansas..... or a future State of the Union address:

View embedded media

Yep, Les doesn't like shining Self's shoes. 😁

 

[DallasSooner73]

Just curious, what 3 teams would you like to see join the Big 12 if Kansas is eliminated.
My preference in a "perfect world" (meaning it will never happen) would be Arkansas, SMU, Texas A & M. ....and this maintains a geographical integrity, outside of West Virginia.

Sorry, but if would rather have SMU than Kansas, you're nuts. This isn't just about football. KU is the greatest basketball school in the conference for decades. SMU in non COVID years, doesn't get 15,000 fans at their games. The vast majority of sports fans in Dallas doesn't care about SMU sports, period. And their TV ratings suck.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Kansas basketball is that big, wow!

 

[CTOkie]

This Fox broadcast just always seems so generic to me. Am I the only one that feels that way?

I thought the commentators in this game were excellent, especially in their discussions of so many players, the evolution of both programs and the play-by-play calls. Their knowledge of the OU program reflected some solid pregame preparation. .

 

[DallasSooner73]

Wow. You liked Luginbill? I think there are four of you, at least any OU sites. Tom was much more complimentary of OU than usual. But I suspect it would have been a very different story if the Sooners were still undefeated.

 

[CTOkie]

Some here take game announcers too seriously.
I listened to the announcers talking of several OU players that had not played a lot. And it was great seeing Riley go deep into his depth chart.

 

[CTOkie]

UH OH. Rattler leaves with a bad hip. Happened on the third TD. Field goal good. Mordecai doesn't inspire confidence.

Mordecai is a solid backup.
But I hope Rattler starts sliding more. OU was very lucky his hip injury wasn't serious. He plays tough, but it could catch up to him....and it almost did.

 

[CTOkie]

Sorry, but if would rather have SMU than Kansas, you're nuts. This isn't just about football. KU is the greatest basketball school in the conference for decades. SMU in non COVID years, doesn't get 15,000 fans at their games. The vast majority of sports fans in Dallas doesn't care about SMU sports, period. And their TV ratings suck.

SMU was 10-3 in 2019 and lost only to Cincinnati, a top ten team this year. This year the Ponies could win 11 games.
These are baby steps for a program that's been dormant since the death penalty in the late 1980's, but I see a team that may be finally coming back from the dead. With access to the DFW talent pool and a membership into the Big 12, SMU could become competitive.
I know all about Kansas and its basketball legacy, but it is KU's football futility that doesn't help the Big 12's football image, especially now that Iowa State has finally upgraded its program.
Maybe, as the announcers in last Saturday's game pointed out, Miles can turn things around in 4 years. It was said that KU is now recruiting more from the high school ranks that the 1-2 years of eligibility from the JUCO ranks....that he is trying to build a program with players that can grow with the team. He's got a lot of work to do in such a remote area and with K-State casting a shadow over his team.

 

[DallasSooner73]

The issue isn't how good they are. It's about their fan support. In seasons when they're 6-6, they won't have 12,000 in their stadium, except when OU or Texas fills it up. In football, SMU equals Tulsa. Memphis is a way better program over time.

 

[DallasSooner73]

SMU was 10-3 in 2019 and lost only to Cincinnati, a top ten team this year. This year the Ponies could win 11 games.
These are baby steps for a program that's been dormant since the death penalty in the late 1980's, but I see a team that may be finally coming back from the dead. With access to the DFW talent pool and a membership into the Big 12, SMU could become competitive.
I know all about Kansas and its basketball legacy, but it is KU's football futility that doesn't help the Big 12's football image, especially now that Iowa State has finally upgraded its program.
Maybe, as the announcers in last Saturday's game pointed out, Miles can turn things around in 4 years. It was said that KU is now recruiting more from the high school ranks that the 1-2 years of eligibility from the JUCO ranks....that he is trying to build a program with players that can grow with the team. He's got a lot of work to do in such a remote area and with K-State casting a shadow over his team.

SMU is Tulsa's peer. Lester will make KU into SMU's peer at least. You just have seen Buschele give the ponies a couple of decent years.

 

[CTOkie]

SMU is Tulsa's peer. Lester will make KU into SMU's peer at least. You just have seen Buschele give the ponies a couple of decent years.

Correct, I have seen Buechele's work at SMU in the last two years and maybe SMU's success won't be maintained after this year after he leaves.
Coach Dykes has recruited QB Preston Stone, a 4-star recruit from Dallas, thanks in part to SMU's success in the last two years. It would not be surprising if Stone started next year.
No one knows which direction SMU may go from here, but some good things may be happening for a seriously damaged football program that received a "death penalty" from the NCAA 33 years ago that may never be issued again due to its severity. SMU deserved punishment, but the long range damage caused was way over the top as far as I'm concerned.
It seems to me that SMU, in a talent-rich DFW area.....the best in the state of Texas....could join the Big 12 and become at least a better program than Kansas.

 

[DallasSooner73]

Correct, I have seen Buechele's work at SMU in the last two years and maybe SMU's success won't be maintained after this year after he leaves.
Coach Dykes has recruited QB Preston Stone, a 4-star recruit from Dallas, thanks in part to SMU's success in the last two years. It would not be surprising if Stone started next year.
No one knows which direction SMU may go from here, but some good things may be happening for a seriously damaged football program that received a "death penalty" from the NCAA 33 years ago that may never be issued again due to its severity. SMU deserved punishment, but the long range damage caused was way over the top as far as I'm concerned.
It seems to me that SMU, in a talent-rich DFW area.....the best in the state of Texas....could join the Big 12 and become at least a better program than Kansas.
[/ graduated in the since dog walker graduated in the late forties,

Since Doak Walker graduated in the late 40's, SMU has been nationally relevant twice. The first time was in the mid-60s when they became the first Southwest Conference team to have an African-American Athlete on a football scholarship. Jerry LeVias help them get to the Cotton Bowl in 1966.

Then in the early 80s they paid so much for players that they got up to the top five a couple of years, at least temporarily. But no bowl wanted them. They didn't bring people to bowl games. And paying for players, got them the death penalty.

Other than that, SMU equals Tulsa.

 

[CTOkie]

I wonder what other Top 25 teams like Liberty, Coastal Carolina, Louisiana, Marshall and Army are "equal" to.
I know of SMU's history starting in 1959 while attending the Rice-SMU game with Don Meredith at QB for SMU....in a 13-13 tie at Rice Stadium.
Then hearing about the racist crap Jerry Levias endured both from teammates and opposing players as he finished his college career with a touchdown in SMU's win over OU in the 1968 Bluebonnet Bowl.
I know SMU's successes are few and far between. My point is what the future might hold given what has happened with the five teams mentioned above.
Frankly, I'm more into OU leaving the Big 12 than anything else.

 

[kcstorm06]

I wonder what other Top 25 teams like Liberty, Coastal Carolina, Louisiana, Marshall and Army are "equal" to.
I know of SMU's history starting in 1959 while attending the Rice-SMU game with Don Meredith at QB for SMU....in a 13-13 tie at Rice Stadium.
Then hearing about the racist crap Jerry Levias endured both from teammates and opposing players as he finished his college career with a touchdown in SMU's win over OU in the 1968 Bluebonnet Bowl.
I know SMU's successes are few and far between. My point is what the future might hold given what has happened with the five teams mentioned above.
Frankly, I'm more into OU leaving the Big 12 than anything else.

This conference is on a downward slide. The respect it gets is nada this year. Thanks to the Sooners dropping two, there is no zing. OSU is a paper tiger and Iowa State has the easy path to one of the Big 12 title game. Not a real high appeal team, although amazingly they have the number 1 rusher in Hall. I would leave this conference in a heartbeat if given a clear path right solution.

 

[CTOkie]

This conference is on a downward slide. The respect it gets is nada this year. Thanks to the Sooners dropping two, there is no zing. OSU is a paper tiger and Iowa State has the easy path to one of the Big 12 title game. Not a real high appeal team, although amazingly they have the number 1 rusher in Hall. I would leave this conference in a heartbeat if given a clear path right solution.

Agree. But we may have a few more years to wait.

 

[DallasSooner73]

I wonder what other Top 25 teams like Liberty, Coastal Carolina, Louisiana, Marshall and Army are "equal" to.

Schools that have no business being in a Power Five conference. Schools that occasionally have a nice season, but in a P5 conference would struggle on the field, and worse in the stadium and TV ratings.

 

[Plainosooner]

CTO, in relation to SMU's 28-27 win over OU in the 1968 Astro-Bluebonnet Bowl. Do you know about what used to be called the "Ugh Award"?

Ugh was the guy who painted the game balls awarded to OU players for a long time. There was an award named for him that was posted in the old trainers' room. Before I got to OU, minus two or three years, there was an offensive and defensive Ugh Award for each game. But the last year or two before I got to OU, it was changed to an annual award. One was for defense, one for offense.

In that AB game on New Year's Eve, 1968, we lost OUr two Ugh Award winners for that season within five minutes of each other, in the first half agasinst SMU. That was Bob Warmack and Steve Zabel. Zabel was OUr one quality pass rusher in the DLine. He also doubled at tight end on offense.

Warmack's replacement was junior Mickey Ripley, playing the only minutes of his career, in any game still undecided. In other words, inexperienced. He and Johnny Barr, put on a show, as the Sooners played without their two MVPs. Shorthanded, we got within seven, scored late and went for two, and came up, just a little short. So SMU got a good win, taking advantage of their good fortune.

The Big XII was formed for three or four primary reasons. One of those, a big one, was so that the state schools in Texas, could rid themslves of SMU and the rest of the private schools who averaged under 20,000, at home games, not facing A&M or Texas as an opponent. Arkansas had already departed the conference five years earlier. SMU is not coming back. D73 is saying it pretty well. High school playoff games, outdraw SMU games in the Dallas area. SMU is not Dallas' team, despite the claim on the front of their jerseys. They are Highland Park's team. And the Scots outdraw the Ponies eight times every ten years.

Since HP has a better record most years than SMU, maybe we should let them in the Big XII.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

The B12 doesn't need a 5th texas program. Scoot Baylor and Tech to Conference USA, bring in the mustangs. 😁

 

[CTOkie]

CTO, in relation to SMU's 28-27 win over OU in the 1968 Astro-Bluebonnet Bowl. Do you know about what used to be called the "Ugh Award"?

Ugh was the guy who painted the game balls awarded to OU players for a long time. There was an award named for him that was posted in the old trainers' room. Before I got to OU, minus two or three years, there was an offensive and defensive Ugh Award for each game. But the last year or two before I got to OU, it was changed to an annual award. One was for defense, one for offense.

In that AB game on New Year's Eve, 1968, we lost OUr two Ugh Award winners for that season within five minutes of each other, in the first half agasinst SMU. That was Bob Warmack and Steve Zabel. Zabel was OUr one quality pass rusher in the DLine. He also doubled at tight end on offense.

Warmack's replacement was junior Mickey Ripley, playing the only minutes of his career, in any game still undecided. In other words, inexperienced. He and Johnny Barr, put on a show, as the Sooners played without their two MVPs. Shorthanded, we got within seven, scored late and went for two, and came up, just a little short. So SMU got a good win, taking advantage of their good fortune.

The Big XII was formed for three or four primary reasons. One of those, a big one, was so that the state schools in Texas, could rid themslves of SMU and the rest of the private schools who averaged under 20,000, at home games, not facing A&M or Texas as an opponent. Arkansas had already departed the conference five years earlier. SMU is not coming back. D73 is saying it pretty well. High school playoff games, outdraw SMU games in the Dallas area. SMU is not Dallas' team, despite the claim on the front of their jerseys. They are Highland Park's team. And the Scots outdraw the Ponies eight times every ten years.

Since HP has a better record most years than SMU, maybe we should let them in the Big XII.

Plaino, I remember the "Ugh Award" given to defensive players who displayed "smashing defensive play" in each game. Coaches would study game film and by every Tuesday decide who would receive the award. And these were players that played both ways.
Lineman Billy White won 5 "Ughs" in 1960 and one as a senior in 1961.
Lineman Jerry Thompson won 4 "Ughs" in 1959, the first year the trophy was put up.
LB Carl McAdams had won 2 as a sophomore and 3 as a junior going into the 1965 season.
Of note: the award was not given following OU's 28-7 loss to Texas in 1963, a game featuring #1 OU vs #2 Texas. It was the only game in which the award was not given during its time at OU.
Not sure how long the Ugh Award lasted. My guess is 1965 or 66. I do not remember it being given my freshman year at OU in 1968.
Good read on the Big 12 and SMU.....and I remember "Ripley's believe it or not" heroics vs SMU in a game that saw OU play lose 28-27 because of Warmack's and Zabel's first quarter injuries.
So SMU and Rice, once of the SWC, are now the ugly ducklings in Texas football, banished forever in Texas football pergatory and must field teams consisting of actual students.

 

[Plainosooner]

Plaino, I remember the "Ugh Award" given to defensive players who displayed "smashing defensive play" in each game. Coaches would study game film and by every Tuesday decide who would receive the award. And these were players that played both ways.
Lineman Billy White won 5 "Ughs" in 1960 and one as a senior in 1961.
Lineman Jerry Thompson won 4 "Ughs" in 1959, the first year the trophy was put up.
LB Carl McAdams had won 2 as a sophomore and 3 as a junior going into the 1965 season.
Of note: the award was not given following OU's 28-7 loss to Texas in 1963, a game featuring #1 OU vs #2 Texas. It was the only game in which the award was not given during its time at OU.
Not sure how long the Ugh Award lasted. My guess is 1965 or 66. I do not remember it being given my freshman year at OU in 1968.
Good read on the Big 12 and SMU.....and I remember "Ripley's believe it or not" heroics vs SMU in a game that saw OU play lose 28-27 because of Warmack's and Zabel's first quarter injuries.
So SMU and Rice, once of the SWC, are now the ugly ducklings in Texas football, banished forever in Texas football pergatory and must field teams consisting of actual students.

My guess is that the Ugh award became annual when either Gomer, or McKenzie or maybe Chuck became hc. But it was posted in the training room past my time in the program which ended in the spring of 1973, when l graduated. I stopped by the equipment room one day in a summer in the late 70's. There was still an Ugh award on the wall with two names posted on the wall in the training room, still under the West stands. That has been the visitors game day dressing room since the Switzer Center was built.

When l revisited there in the summer of 2006, they were storing equipment for mowing, edging and striping in the old equipment room.

Claiming a football team is being banished for having "actual students" seems rather insulting to me.

SMU didn't go to purgatory because they got the death penalty. The went because of their own arrogance. They self imposed restrictions on themselves that excluded players who qualified. And not just in football.

They wouldn't let Larry Johnson in. He was the best hs basketball player in the country. He later led UNLV to the national finals twice. He was from Dallas. It ruined recruiting from all DISD schools in all sports, for over 30 years.

And they don't deserve to be in the Big XII.

 

[CTOkie]

1...I did not say or imply that SMU was banished for having "actual students".
But like Rice, Tulane, Ivy League schools and academy schools, having higher academic standards is usually detrimental to having a football factory. SMU never has been an historically great football program and the academics, plus playing in Dallas in the shadows of the Cowboys hasn't helped at all.
2....SMU's "arrogance" was a reason it thought it could get away with buying players and being open about it. I believe the SMU program "died" for the sins of many other programs. No death penalties have occurred since although some have come close to happening.
I don't care is SMU or any school is undeserving of joining ANY conference. I was only speculating how SMU's admission might impact the Big 12 if SMU can return to a consistent level of competitiveness.
Many speculate the Big 12 may be heading for extinction in the next few years unless two or more prominent teams can be added.

 

[Plainosooner]

SMU was not open about it at all. They got caught by Channel 8, in one of those investigated stories.

Adding SMU to the Big XII would hasten, not slow down the demise of the Big 12, if it happens. I'm not so sure of that, at all, though many board members here seem to advocate it. I'm in the opposite camp. I would love to get Nebraska back, and one more of the departed. But unfortunately, the presence of UT, will likely keep anybody from returning, including the Huskers.

 

[CTOkie]

Many of the violations by SMU were know by the school’s administration and the documentary “Pony Express” revealed how the payments to players was known by many outside the program. The violations were flagrant and frequent.
SMU may never achieve elite status on the CFB landscape or get added to The Big 12, but its good to see the team competitive, as teams like Florida State, Nebraska and Penn State decline, if only temporarily.
The Big 12 would have been so much better had Nebraska and ATM stayed. That would have had OU with four great rivalries (Texas, OSU, Nebraska and ATM). Colorado and Missouri were disposable in my opinion.

 

[JConXtsy]

Football players from poor families yet living in some of Dallas' premier high-rise condominiums wasn't exactly flying under the radar.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Football players from poor families yet living in some of Dallas' premier high-rise condominiums wasn't exactly flying under the radar.

Yep, it' surely an indicator.

 

[Plainosooner]

Anybody notice that Tulsa beat SMU Saturday night, coming from more than two TD's behind to pull it out?

So should we bring TU into the Big XII?

 

[CTOkie]

We all know SMU, Houston and Tulsa are not coming to the Big 12. And I know that SMU's future is and always will be on a very slippery slope.
I mentioned SMU as a possibility coming to the conference (in the future) due to the recent upsurge along with the possibility of maintaining competitiveness and geographical "integrity" along with Arkansas and ATM and as an upgrade in replacing Kansas.
With Buechele leaving at year's end, SMU's Cinderella revival may hit a brick wall. Right now, who knows which way the Ponies' program will go ?
In recent years, I have seen others here suggest Tulane, Memphis, BYU, Houston, Colorado State, Air Force and UTEP.....a group that represents "sloppy seconds" to me.
Meanwhile, it would help the image of the conference if its champion fared better in the postseason, with or without Kansas sucking.
By the way, Tulsa is ranked in the AP top 25 this morning by virtue of its win over SMU. Tulsa's only loss was a close game against Oklahoma State 16-7 in its opener, with OSU scoring 13 points in the 4th quarter to win it. Maybe you're on to something, Plaino.

 

[Oklabama]

We all know SMU, Houston and Tulsa are not coming to the Big 12. And I know that SMU's future is and always will be on a very slippery slope.
I mentioned SMU as a possibility coming to the conference (in the future) due to the recent upsurge along with the possibility of maintaining competitiveness and geographical "integrity" along with Arkansas and ATM and as an upgrade in replacing Kansas.
With Buechele leaving at year's end, SMU's Cinderella revival may hit a brick wall. Right now, who knows which way the Ponies' program will go ?
In recent years, I have seen others here suggest Tulane, Memphis, BYU, Houston, Colorado State, Air Force and UTEP.....a group that represents "sloppy seconds" to me.
Meanwhile, it would help the image of the conference if its champion fared better in the postseason, with or without Kansas sucking.
By the way, Tulsa is ranked in the AP top 25 this morning by virtue of its win over SMU. Tulsa's only loss was a close game against Oklahoma State 16-7 in its opener, with OSU scoring 13 points in the 4th quarter to win it. Maybe you're on to something, Plaino.

IMO, there’s not a single program (and really, we need two) that would elevate the B12 available. I think the B12’s ship has sailed. I wouldn’t want any of the never been member schools mentioned. Would I like A&M back, damn right. Would I like Nebraska back, damn right. But none of the former members are coming back.

 

[kcstorm06]

Arkansas and Nebraska would be ones to get into the fold in my opinion with some historical relevance. Otherwise can’t say there is anybody long term to bring in. Always these lightning in bottle programs, but no one is a long term solution.

 

[CTOkie]

IMO, there’s not a single program (and really, we need two) that would elevate the B12 available. I think the B12’s ship has sailed. I wouldn’t want any of the never been member schools mentioned. Would I like A&M back, damn right. Would I like Nebraska back, damn right. But none of the former members are coming back.

Agree, and my remark on SMU being added with Arkansas and ATM was a "hail Mary" suggestion based on a resurgence by SMU to the level it was from 1981-1985....which likely won't happen for several reasons.
Additions like Nebraska and Louisville would be nice, or even Arkansas, but again, OU's future in 4-5 years is about jumping to another big time conference like the SEC, ACC or Big 10.

 

[Plainosooner]

We all know SMU, Houston and Tulsa are not coming to the Big 12. And I know that SMU's future is and always will be on a very slippery slope.
I mentioned SMU as a possibility coming to the conference (in the future) due to the recent upsurge along with the possibility of maintaining competitiveness and geographical "integrity" along with Arkansas and ATM and as an upgrade in replacing Kansas.
With Buechele leaving at year's end, SMU's Cinderella revival may hit a brick wall. Right now, who knows which way the Ponies' program will go ?
In recent years, I have seen others here suggest Tulane, Memphis, BYU, Houston, Colorado State, Air Force and UTEP.....a group that represents "sloppy seconds" to me.
Meanwhile, it would help the image of the conference if its champion fared better in the postseason, with or without Kansas sucking.
By the way, Tulsa is ranked in the AP top 25 this morning by virtue of its win over SMU. Tulsa's only loss was a close game against Oklahoma State 16-7 in its opener, with OSU scoring 13 points in the 4th quarter to win it. Maybe you're on to something, Plaino.

Yeah, if you want to screw up OU recruiting in Texas and Oklahoma. Terrific idea. OU took a huge dip in performance for close to a decade when OSU entered the conference in 1960. We ought to learn from history.