Kenny Stills answer to taking the knee

[BillyRay]

Absolutely, I could see how it would happen. Everyone knows that the first thing an officer wants is proof of identity. I could totally see a deaf person assuming that they need to get their ID for the officer.... oops, and it's in the car. Let me just get that for you.

Its one thing to go back to your vehicle to get ID in a normal traffic stop. It's another thing to do it while officers have their weapons drawn. It has to do with escalating the situation. Why refuse to follow an officers commands and escalate a situation if it doesn't need to be?? Now if a person is deaf, then I do agree with you JCon that it's a bad situation because the officer showing up has no idea if that person is deaf, or maybe even a person playing like they are deaf to get the officer to drop his guard so he can kill him. It's crap like that that officers have to think about every day that could happen to them.

 

[Medic007]

My brother told me the story of his "mace training..." right in the eyes, stream of pepper spray... He said it dropped him like a rock. He told of others who did the tazer victim bit... Not fun...

What was fun? Catching him at my parents one day when he was unarmed, a very rare occurrence... My dad had a cattle prod he used to influence animals... I decided to see how it worked on piggies, he wasn't amused...

I've been pepper sprayed, gassed, and tazed. If I were to rank them in order of awfulness, I'd say yes. They each bring their own variations of suck to the party. But I do know I'm not looking for seconds.

Did he kick your ass after picking himself up and cleaning out his undies? Cattle are much more tolerant of DC current. Cattle prods are no joke.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

It's interesting you posted this. But I'm very glad you did. Hindsight provides miraculous solutions.

At what point do you feel the officer had the green light to shoot? After the first command? Second command? Tenth command? 6th? We see the results of what waiting for the gun to actually be produced in plain sight was. Tell me exactly what point you feel he should have began firing, the exact point of differentiation between a justfied shoot and excessive force in your opinion. You can reference that point by the video time or number of commands issued, or however you like.

I'd really like to hear your opinion.

I'd prefer that he been tazed or maced when he started jumping around like an idiot. Had that occurred, then maybe he is detained and nobody dies. Where is the second officer? Seems like only one until the shooting starts. At the point where he is conversing with the officer, it is obvious he can understand what is being asked/commanded.

After the suspect brandished the weapon, shoot him. I have no sympathy for an idiot who pulls a gun on a cop.

 

[BillyRay]

Nobody is asking anyone to die. I'm asking people to not choose the profession of law enforcement if they're so scared of someone showing their back who may or may not have a weapon.

Do you think this same mentality should apply to our servicemen who are in the military?? Or do you also think people who serve in the military should have every opportunity to defend themselves when in harms way? Or do you think they forfeit that when they sign up?
Police officers are human beings and American's just like the rest of us. But it's almost like you are trying to say that just because they chose that profession, they should also be forfeiting one of their unalienable rights that our founders felt had been given to all human beings by our creator....the right to life.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

I've been pepper sprayed, gassed, and tazed. If I were to rank them in order of awfulness, I'd say yes. They each bring their own variations of suck to the party. But I do know I'm not looking for seconds.

Did he kick your ass after picking himself up and cleaning out his undies? Cattle are much more tolerant of DC current. Cattle prods are no joke.

He was unarmed. He couldn't kick my ass unless I turned my back to him, and I made sure not to that day... LOL it was fun to get him wanting to wrestle after I was 18. He is 9 yrs older, so I took my share from him and my two other brothers through life. He found out that speed, quickness, and strength were no longer on his side... And yes, it is still that way. My brothers are fat for some reason. I don't get it...

 

[JConXtsy]

My brothers are fat for some reason. I don't get it...

They eat too much for their activity level.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

Do you think this same mentality should apply to our servicemen who are in the military?? Or do you also think people who serve in the military should have every opportunity to defend themselves when in harms way? Or do you think they forfeit that when they sign up?
Police officers are human beings and American's just like the rest of us. But it's almost like you are trying to say that just because they chose that profession, they should also be forfeiting one of their unalienable rights that our founders felt had been given to all human beings by our creator....the right to life.

Where are they? Signing up doesn't give one the right to shoot people.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

They eat too much for their activity level.

WAY too much... I eat more than two of them, no doubts. I actually need another 10-15 pounds of muscle. Them??? Well... One is probably 300+ and the other two 220 or so... I'm 175 and not digging it...

 

[Medic007]

I'd prefer that he been tazed or maced when he started jumping around like an idiot. Had that occurred, then maybe he is detained and nobody dies. Where is the second officer? Seems like only one until the shooting starts. At the point where he is conversing with the officer, it is obvious he can understand what is being asked/commanded.

After the suspect brandished the weapon, shoot him. I have no sympathy for an idiot who pulls a gun on a cop.

Tazers weren't common back then. They were very new. You have to be fairly close to use pepper spray unless you deploy the gigantic fire extinguisher crowd version that terrorizes entire city blocks like OU did back in the day after fans attacked the goalposts. Likely he didn't have one of those.

You posted "after he brandished the weapon." Would you mind claifying what you consider that to be? Some think that seeing any part of something that could be a weapon would be considered brandishing. Some think the suspect has to pull the trigger. Most think somewhere in between. In this case, it's clear the officer believes the suspect has a gun. It's also clear that as soon as the rifle became completely visible the suspect started firing. The suspect now had the advantage. Vests and cars are no match for 7.62.

The second officer is likely behind the visible police car. The suspect makes two assaults, one down each side of the car. You only hear what appears to be one officer because he's the one wearing the dashcam mic.

 

[BillyRay]

Where are they? Signing up doesn't give one the right to shoot people.

No it doesn't. There are soldiers doing time in prison for crossing the line in regards to improper use of force in a war zone, and there are also plenty of cops in prison for improper use of force while doing their jobs. But that does not mean police officers have to accept any more risk than is reasonably necessary just because they signed up for a dangerous job.

 

[Medic007]

He was unarmed. He couldn't kick my ass unless I turned my back to him, and I made sure not to that day... LOL it was fun to get him wanting to wrestle after I was 18. He is 9 yrs older, so I took my share from him and my two other brothers through life. He found out that speed, quickness, and strength were no longer on his side... And yes, it is still that way. My brothers are fat for some reason. I don't get it...

I miss the rolly laughing emoticon. So you get this one .

Have you been checked for a tapeworm?

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

Tazers weren't common back then. They were very new. You have to be fairly close to use pepper spray unless you deploy the gigantic fire extinguisher crowd version that terrorizes entire city blocks like OU did back in the day after fans attacked the goalposts. Likely he didn't have one of those.

You posted "after he brandished the weapon." Would you mind claifying what you consider that to be? Some think that seeing any part of something that could be a weapon would be considered brandishing. Some think the suspect has to pull the trigger. Most think somewhere in between. In this case, it's clear the officer believes the suspect has a gun. It's also clear that as soon as the rifle became completely visible the suspect started firing. The suspect now had the advantage. Vests and cars are no match for 7.62.

The second officer is likely behind the visible police car. The suspect makes two assaults, one down each side of the car. You only hear what appears to be one officer because he's the one wearing the dashcam mic.

Well, really I'd have no issue with him being shot when he starts reaching back into the vehicle. Why? Because of his actions before that.

I'm not into the assault weapon b.s. as I call it. Yes, he had a powerful weapon. A pellet gun can kill a person just as dead. My boots are assault weapons if I kick the sh!t out of someone with them.

My question about the second officer is mainly because I'd liked to have seen the suspect apprehended in the first minute of the video. He needed to be.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

I miss the rolly laughing emoticon. So you get this one .

Have you been checked for a tapeworm?

No tapeworm. I cut down enough trees and toss enough lumber to stay in shape... They sit on their asses...

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

No it doesn't. There are soldiers doing time in prison for crossing the line in regards to improper use of force in a war zone, and there are also plenty of cops in prison for improper use of force while doing their jobs. But that does not mean police officers have to accept any more risk than is reasonably necessary just because they signed up for a dangerous job.

Absolutely not. Their job is not an easy one. Some people aren't made for it. I'd get shot if I were a cop. Hell, I've been shot and I'm not a cop, but that was my own fault...

 

[Medic007]

Well, really I'd have no issue with him being shot when he starts reaching back into the vehicle. Why? Because of his actions before that.

I'm not into the assault weapon b.s. as I call it. Yes, he had a powerful weapon. A pellet gun can kill a person just as dead. My boots are assault weapons if I kick the sh!t out of someone with them.

My question about the second officer is mainly because I'd liked to have seen the suspect apprehended in the first minute of the video. He needed to be.

I certainly respect your opinion. I don't know if the second officer is on scene in enough time to put him in custody. It could be the arrival of the second officer that caused him to retreat to his vehicle.

My point is simply that officers don't have the luxury of film review with slo mo and multiple angles, the knowledge that the suspect was in fact unarmed, what the intentions of the suspect are, etc at the time of the incident. They happen fast. Every officer knows that using lethal force too soon or when not warranted as determined in the post shooting investigation might end their career and life as they know it by being sent to prison. And every officer knows that not using lethal force too late or not using lethal force when lethal force was warranted might just get them killed.

I don't know of any other type of career where you have to make very quick decisions with often very poor information where the decision might be correct and you're safe or might be incorrect and you're in prison or dead. Am I saying give them the benefit of the doubt and reserve judgment until the investigation is done? Yes. The media certainly should. The vast majority of officers aren't out on the job looking to commit murder. Has it happened? Yes. And when it does happen there should be severe consequences for those officers and their departments if necessary.

 

[JConXtsy]

A pellet gun can kill a person just as dead.

I dated a chick in Dallas years ago. She had to drive to Fort Worth every weekend to check on her adult brother and get him straightened out for the week. When he was a kid, he and friends did the common BB gun fight thing. He took one to the head that penetrated the skull and caused very slight brain damage. You'd never tell there was anything wrong with him type of brain damage, but his responsibility capacity was stuck at like a 13 year old. He had a job and lived by himself, but his sister had to make sure he cleaned, did his laundry, paid his bills, got groceries and had everything good to go for the week.

I argued with her that it must have been a pellet, not a BB, but she swore it was a BB that penetrated the skull.

 

[Medic007]

I dated a chick in Dallas years ago. She had to drive to Fort Worth every weekend to check on her adult brother and get him straightened out for the week. When he was a kid, he and friends did the common BB gun fight thing. He took one to the head that penetrated the skull and caused very slight brain damage. You'd never tell there was anything wrong with him type of brain damage, but his responsibility capacity was stuck at like a 13 year old. He had a job and lived by himself, but his sister had to make sure he cleaned, did his laundry, paid his bills, got groceries and had everything good to go for the week.

I argued with her that it must have been a pellet, not a BB, but she swore it was a BB that penetrated the skull.

I've seen BBs penetrate the skull. Also saw a dead kid from a point blank pellet gun to the chest.

Interestingly, I've seen more fatalities from nail guns than I have pellet guns.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

I dated a chick in Dallas years ago. She had to drive to Fort Worth every weekend to check on her adult brother and get him straightened out for the week. When he was a kid, he and friends did the common BB gun fight thing. He took one to the head that penetrated the skull and caused very slight brain damage. You'd never tell there was anything wrong with him type of brain damage, but his responsibility capacity was stuck at like a 13 year old. He had a job and lived by himself, but his sister had to make sure he cleaned, did his laundry, paid his bills, got groceries and had everything good to go for the week.

I argued with her that it must have been a pellet, not a BB, but she swore it was a BB that penetrated the skull.

I believe it. Had a bb go through a shoe, thick sock, into the skin of my big toe from about 20 feet away in my teens. I figure it could've went an inch deep or more if in the right place. Hit someone in the eye with it??? Death is possible...

 

[Soonersincefitty]

True that, I've got a Gamo pellet rifle that spits out a pellet at 1200 feet per second at muzzle.
I think that's faster than a 22 short.
It's a bad boy.

 

[JConXtsy]

Maybe we should be outfitting officers with pellet guns.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

Maybe we should be outfitting officers with pellet guns.

Haha... No... Most of them are good. Not all though. But then I think non violent convicted felons should be able to keep and bear arms, so what do I know???

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

You have a degree and don't know the difference in equality and free market capitalism? Maybe you should STFU since you think others don't have the right to speak. How's that work for you?

You've just made my point. Inequality is the result of superior skill sets, work ethic, motivation, etc. Which is why Kenny needs to STFU and stick to what he is good at, ie. football. (PS: thanks for submitting the exact response I was expecting.)

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

You've just made my point. Inequality is the result of superior skill sets, work ethic, motivation, etc. Which is why Kenny needs to STFU and stick to what he is good at, ie. football. (PS: thanks for submitting the exact response I was expecting.)

Or, it is the result of centuries of oppression. Something this country was founded on, ironically, in it's own attempt to escape it...

 

[veritas59]

Maybe we should be outfitting officers with pellet guns.

Absolutely. Then no one could hear their gunshots.

Stop it. I jest.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

Police officers are human beings and American's just like the rest of us. But it's almost like you are trying to say that just because they chose that profession, they should also be forfeiting one of their unalienable rights that our founders felt had been given to all human beings by our creator....the right to life.

I thought it was life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness... Of course, the founders were human beings... and they determined that the native people's were savages, men of African decent who were owned were only 3/5ths of a man... So who has forfeited more of their rights, since we're on the topic???

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

It's a bas ass world these days. Cops getting shot every week these days. They fear for their lives. They walk on egg shells. There's only so much that they can handle and will handle no matter how much triaining they receive. As such, their human instincts kick in and they protect themelves. If one doesn't follow directions of a cop, one's causing them to be overly cautious, which triggers (no pun intended) a different set of parameters. And if you appear at the slightest to be reaching for something, chances are great that you're going to be shot. Period. It won't matter who you are, what color you are... you'll be a dead somebody with some defined race, age, height, weight, and demeanor. Common sense. Some get this, some don't. Some are so high on drugs they can't. Some simply are too prideful to think logically. Some get shot & killed, others live to tell about. My money is on the cop every time.

Pt, in your own words stated you've skated death multiple times via LEO. If you refused directions & escalated any situation, it wasn't wise on your behalf. In fact it's down right foolish. In today's world, you'd mre likely be dead & not responding this message board.

 

[BillyRay]

Exactly, it's ONE of the unalienable rights mentioned. You can accept or not not depending on whether you think the founders foundation for this country holds holds any merit because the things they did at the time have been judged harshly from the last 200 years of historical perspective.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

The Charlotte killing was a black man w/ a gun that stepped out of his car... he's dead. Why? Was to too proud to obey directions? Defied directions because he did not wish to go to jail? Was he stupid? It doesn't matter anymore. He's dead. One can learn from this. Or one can repeat the same and be shot to death by a cop. It's going to happen again. Both. Someone reaching for something or carrying a gun after being told not to. And someone being shot & killed. Some better learn fast or they're going to be dead.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

It's a bas ass world these days. Cops getting shot every week these days. They fear for their lives. They walk on egg shells. There's only so much that they can handle and will handle no matter how much triaining they receive. As such, their human instincts kick in and they protect themelves. If one doesn't follow directions of a cop, one's causing them to be overly cautious, which triggers (no pun intended) a different set of parameters. And if you appear at the slightest to be reaching for something, chances are great that you're going to be shot. Period. It won't matter who you are, what color you are... you'll be a dead somebody with some defined race, age, height, weight, and demeanor. Common sense. Some get this, some don't. Some are so high on drugs they can't. Some simply are too prideful to think logically. Some get shot & killed, others live to tell about. My money is on the cop every time.

Pt, in your own words stated you've skated death multiple times via LEO. If you refused directions & escalated any situation, it wasn't wise on your behalf. In fact it's down right foolish. In today's world, you'd mre likely be dead & not responding this message board.

I skated death by what I believe, is Divine intervention. How? By me getting pulled over by LEO, but my path to destruction was just that, my path. While it might hurt my family and friends to see my plight, physical damages to persons or property wasn't part of my doings. Drug induced fears created a flight mode. The facts are that many, myself included, have difficulty responding when high on certain substances.

So seeing that I already stated I'd probably be dead 18 times over, you're preaching to the choir. I'm just not one of the choir members having an affair with a Sunday school teacher. But, since we're talking about this, at what point is it acceptable for a cop to shoot someone? And, if it is, is okay for a civilian?

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

That's easy. The point is when one places a Cop in the thought process of self preservation. All bets are off after that. And no, it is not ok for a civilian... ever.

 

[veritas59]

http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/09/20/terence-crutcher-shot-hands-heres-definitive-proof/

I'm not defending or condemning this shooting because I don't know everything that happened, but here is an article that disputes some of the narrative released by the mainstream media, who I completely distrust. There have been some bad shootings, like murder bad, by cops.. no doubt. But the irresponsibility of the media in their quest for creating firestorms to boost their ratings and advertising dollars is shameful, and in more cases than one they've instigated retaliatory violence as a result of false narrative. I think it's time they're held accountable, too.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

That's easy. The point is when one places a Cop in the thought process of self preservation. All bets are off after that. And no, it is not ok for a civilian... ever.

So a cop has more right to kill than a civilian? That is what you're saying...

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Taser was good. But if I didn't have one and all I have is my service weapon and was faced with this life or death situation, I'd shoot and go home and hug & kiss my wife. I would fret, worry and agonize from this point going forward, but I no doubt shoot.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

So a cop has more right to kill than a civilian? That is what you're saying...

I'd to think your question is rhetorical. License to Kill.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

I'd to think your question is rhetorical. License to Kill.

Not really. You put a cop in a position of self preservation and he can kill, but not a civilian, ever. Is that not in essence what you said?

 

[BillyRay]

Taser was good. But if I didn't have one and all I have is my service weapon and was faced with this life or death situation, I'd shoot and go home and hug & kiss my wife. I would fret, worry and agonize from this point going forward, but I no doubt shoot.

In this agenda driven media age though, even if you are 100% justified in using deadly force, your life may still be ruined. Look at the officer in the Michael Brown case. So any lies and so much wrong information was put out by the media before the TRUTH came out, that most had their minds made up that Brown was "murdered and hunted down in the street like a dog" and nothing was going to change their minds. That officer had to leave the department and relocate to somewhere else in the country and start a new career in an attempt to have some sort of anonymity and living a normal life. Had he stayed on the police force in Ferguson he prolly would have been murdered by now.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Not really. You put a cop in a position of self preservation and he can kill, but not a civilian, ever. Is that not in essence what you said?

From Deputies, to Sheriffs, Marshalls to Beat Cops, and all LE in between they control the behavoir of society and enforce laws. They carry guns, tasers, cuffs, ammo, and wear bullet proof vests. They do this for a reason. Yes they have a license to kill. Civilians, where allowed by law are licensed to carry.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

From Deputies, to Sheriffs, Marshalls to Beat Cops, and all LE in between they control the behavoir of society and enforce laws. They carry guns, tasers, cuffs, ammo, and wear bullet proof vests. They do this for a reason. Yes they have a license to kill. Civilians, where allowed by law are licensed to carry.

Sounds like Hitler's Gestapo... my dad shot them. I would, too.

 

[Soonersincefitty]

A scintillating thread for sure.
As to the OP, like him or not, I was impressed that Jerry Jones stated unequivocally the Cowboys, his employees will STAND during the National Anthem.
By gawd.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Sounds like Hitler's Gestapo... my dad shot them. I would, too.

Got it. You believe Cop's in America are like Hilter's Gestapo. I think we're done now.