Kenny Stills answer to taking the knee

[Mister Moses]

I agree with royg. I don't think NFL games should offer a stage for these protest. They have rules about the socks they wear. Damn politics involved in everything now. This is a question I don't the answer but curious about it. Would Tim Tebow be allowed to hold a cross up during the anthem when he played NFL?

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

I agree with royg. I don't think NFL games should offer a stage for these protest. They have rules about the socks they wear. Damn politics involved in everything now. This is a question I don't the answer but curious about it. Would Tim Tebow be allowed to hold a cross up during the anthem when he played NFL?

Should you have to stand when I say? Should you have to remain silent because I say? Are you free to make your own choice?

 

[ESPiam]

First, thank you for your service. Second, stand tall. You are part of the answer. It's not just a leader who fixes this. It's all of us. Of the people, by the people, for the people...

We don't all agree, we don't all feel the same. We have problems. We can fix them. Hitler united the German people. He also exterminated the ones he didn't want. Our differences and our diversity is what makes our country great. A lot think it takes a certain group to take action and fix things for another group.

How do I teach you something I've never learned? How can you teach me something you know nothing about? We learn from one another... If one takes time to listen, they might understand so they can help find a solution. The thought that all of these athletes have done this as a slight, or contempt, or to disrespect someone is rather ludicrous to me. Most of those offended are in such an uproar that they can't tell you what the issue is even about.

Calm down. Find out the issues. Find a way to resolve them...

Thanks for the words of inspiration. If everyone had your wisdom, patience and maturity we could move mountains.If only we listened and learned instead of shouting to be heard.over each other.

 

[bcsoonerfan]

Our veterans deserve respect. But anymore, those elected officials who represent our government deserve nothing of the sort.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

I admit nothing and stand by MY comments & posts. Not what someone thinks I posted. I'm out & Stills can bite me & those think like he does can as well.

It's game day. BOOMER!

 

[JConXtsy]

I know I will just get your vitriol back in response.

Vitriol? lol
I've never output vitriol here ever. 16+ years and nada.
if you ever felt that, you're hyper-sensitive.

 

[veritas59]

Ok. In all seriousness, this isn't a joke... It was wonderful...

View embedded media

Just so you know, Pt...... I jumped off and watched that whole game after you posted this last night. Thanks for putting it up. I enjoyed watching it again.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

Vitriol? lol
I've never output vitriol here ever. 16+ years and nada.
if you ever felt that, you're hyper-sensitive.

There seem to be some that read an attitude or emotion in words that aren't there at times....

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

Well, well, well... This just in, from Living Colour...

Who Shot Ya?

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

These protests are based on an invalid premise. Of all the high profile police-involved deaths recently, the only ones that appear to be dirty are the one in Charleston, where the cop was immediately indicted for murder, and the one in Chicago, where the cop was indicted immediately after former Obama chief of staff Rahm Emmanuel was re-elected as mayor. Kenny, just STFU and play football.

 

[CTOkie]

I agree with royg. I don't think NFL games should offer a stage for these protest. They have rules about the socks they wear. Damn politics involved in everything now. This is a question I don't the answer but curious about it. Would Tim Tebow be allowed to hold a cross up during the anthem when he played NFL?

I don't think NFL games should offer a stage for war worshiping either....jingoistic flag waving as more poor, often maimed veterans are paraded out to be honored by the 99% of the country who vote for these war-mongering politicians who have sent our kids out to fight these insane wars and have destroyed the morale of the military (22 suicides a day).

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

These protests are based on an invalid premise. Of all the high profile police-involved deaths recently, the only ones that appear to be dirty are the one in Charleston, where the cop was immediately indicted for murder, and the one in Chicago, where the cop was indicted immediately after former Obama chief of staff Rahm Emmanuel was re-elected as mayor. Kenny, just STFU and play football.

The invalid premise is that the protesting is what you claim it to be. When you look at the statements of all the different players, there are many different reasons for their protests. Inequality and justice are often mentioned, but not always at the front of the issue. Kenny Stills has said it is an equality issue. I see no problem with it. There is an equality issue in this country. Just because an ostrich buries it's head in the sand doesn't mean there is not an elephant in the room.

If you want to talk dirty cops, etc... I'll be your huckleberry. The Terence Crutcher story in Tulsa is disturbing. Tazed, on the ground. Shot dead. Before he was tazed, he had his hands up. He had no weapon. There was no weapon in his vehicle. When he was shot to death, he lay flat on his stomach in the street not moving, where he had fell as a result of being tazed. There are many more.

As for him needing to STFU... why? You don't like what he says, don't listen.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Bam!
The local police union behind the Broward County Sheriff’s Office is refusing to provide police escorts for the Miami Dolphins to to their games until the team forces its players to stand for the national anthem, The Miami Herald reports.

“I respect their right to have freedom of speech,” Jeffery Bell, president of the International Union of Police Associations, Local 6020 said to The Miami Herald. “However, in certain organizations and certain jobs you give up that right of your freedom of speech temporary while you serve that job or while you play in an NFL game.”

The Dolphins have been in the news for refusing to stand for the national anthem, when four of their players kneeled during a game to protest racial oppression against the Seattle Seahawks last Sunday, NBC 6 Miami reported.

The Dolphins’ players took a cue from San Francisco 49ers player Colin Kaepernick, who is still making headlines for kneeling during the national anthem in protest of racial oppression.

The Dolphins released a statement last week saying that it “encourages” players to stand, but respects the rights of those players who refuse to stand.

pic.twitter.com/dBR82TnATs

— Miami Dolphins (@MiamiDolphins) September 11, 2016

Three of the four players who kneeled during the Sept. 11 game against the Seahawks are leaning toward standing at this weekend’s game against the Patriots, The Herald reported.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

Bam!
The local police union behind the Broward County Sheriff’s Office is refusing to provide police escorts for the Miami Dolphins to to their games until the team forces its players to stand for the national anthem, The Miami Herald reports.

“I respect their right to have freedom of speech,” Jeffery Bell, president of the International Union of Police Associations, Local 6020 said to The Miami Herald. “However, in certain organizations and certain jobs you give up that right of your freedom of speech temporary while you serve that job or while you play in an NFL game.”

The Dolphins have been in the news for refusing to stand for the national anthem, when four of their players kneeled during a game to protest racial oppression against the Seattle Seahawks last Sunday, NBC 6 Miami reported.

The Dolphins’ players took a cue from San Francisco 49ers player Colin Kaepernick, who is still making headlines for kneeling during the national anthem in protest of racial oppression.

The Dolphins released a statement last week saying that it “encourages” players to stand, but respects the rights of those players who refuse to stand.

pic.twitter.com/dBR82TnATs

— Miami Dolphins (@MiamiDolphins) September 11, 2016

Three of the four players who kneeled during the Sept. 11 game against the Seahawks are leaning toward standing at this weekend’s game against the Patriots, The Herald reported.

And in current news... BSO will still work Dolphins games despite request of union...

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article102711647.html

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

And in current news... BSO will still work Dolphins games despite request of union...

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article102711647.html

I'm thinking they'll be a bit selective... so don't blame them.

 

[Medic007]

The Terence Crutcher story in Tulsa is disturbing. Tazed, on the ground. Shot dead. Before he was tazed, he had his hands up. He had no weapon. There was no weapon in his vehicle. When he was shot to death, he lay flat on his stomach in the street not moving, where he had fell as a result of being tazed.

The continuously false narrative is disturbing as well, and completely non-productive. You should watch the actual footage if you haven't. It might turn out to be a bad shoot, but he didn't have his hands in the air and was not on the ground when shot. He was also never on his belly. He clearly wasn't following commands. Those commands are given for the safety of the suspect as well as the officer. There's plenty of videos on Youtube of bad things that happen when people ignore commands and return to their vehicles after police contact. I've included one that resulted in the death of two officers for reference.

The family's attorney made a statement about Crutcher's car being broken down on the side of the road. Since when is the literal middle of the street the side of the road?Unless you want to be dishonest, there's no way his vehicle can be described as being on the side of the road.

It will also be interesting to see if he addresses why people not named Terence Crutcher called 911. They didn't call in a vehicle breakdown as a vehicle breakdown doesn't get 4 officers and a police helicopter response.

 

[BillyRay]

Why is it so difficult for people to simply do what officers tell them to do??

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

The continuously false narrative is disturbing as well, and completely non-productive. You should watch the actual footage if you haven't. It might turn out to be a bad shoot, but he didn't have his hands in the air and was not on the ground when shot. He was also never on his belly. He clearly wasn't following commands. Those commands are given for the safety of the suspect as well as the officer. There's plenty of videos on Youtube of bad things that happen when people ignore commands and return to their vehicles after police contact. I've included one that resulted in the death of two officers for reference.

The family's attorney made a statement about Crutcher's car being broken down on the side of the road. Since when is the literal middle of the street the side of the road?Unless you want to be dishonest, there's no way his vehicle can be described as being on the side of the road.

It will also be interesting to see if he addresses why people not named Terence Crutcher called 911. They didn't call in a vehicle breakdown as a vehicle breakdown doesn't get 4 officers and a police helicopter response.

View embedded media

Interesting indeed. You suggest I watch the Terence Crutches video and then produce... a different video? After talking about the continuously false narrative? That's a good one. Here is the video...



You tell me... How long is it from him being tazed do you hear, "shots fired?" Did it take a minute? Seconds? A full second even? You tell me... Was he shot before he was tazed? What is the procedure and policy for the use of deadly force? You can sugar coat it all you want. It is a fact though, that 1) Terence Crutcher was shot by a cop. 2) He was not armed. 3) He is now dead.

Here's the press conference with the Tulsa Police Chief, Mayor, and others... If they are disturbed by this, should I be? Or is just a load of manure they are feeding me?

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

Why is it so difficult for people to simply do what officers tell them to do??

At what point do you kill an unarmed man for not minding, yet throw parents in jail for spanking kids who don't mind... ??? !!!

I'm glad that didn't shoot me for not minding. I'd be dead 18 times over, at least... And they weren't using tazers very often back then... Oh, yeah. I'm white, mostly... But, I didn't have my hands up. I often had things that could easily be misconstrued as a weapon. I was driving my car at speeds over 100 mph while high on cocaine in a chase that started in Dallas and went through downtown, Richardson, Carrollton, Lewisville, Denton, down to Ft Worth, and back to Denton... They didn't shoot me for not minding...

 

[BillyRay]

At what point do you kill an unarmed man for not minding, yet throw parents in jail for spanking kids who don't mind... ??? !!!

I'm glad that didn't shoot me for not minding. I'd be dead 18 times over, at least... And they weren't using tazers very often back then... Oh, yeah. I'm white, mostly... But, I didn't have my hands up. I often had things that could easily be misconstrued as a weapon. I was driving my car at speeds over 100 mph while high on cocaine in a chase that started in Dallas and went through downtown, Richardson, Carrollton, Lewisville, Denton, down to Ft Worth, and back to Denton... They didn't shoot me for not minding...

What makes you think police shoot a person SOLELY on the reason of the person not doing what they are telling him to do?? And I'm sure there are plenty of examples ever nowadays where people don't get shot while not doing what officers are doing as well. Just because you see videos show up on the news of possibly awful judgement by officers, doesn't mean it's rampant or that every officer would do the same thing in the same situation.

But did the police say why the man was walking back to his vehicle while police had weapons drawn on him?? And what occured for them to have weapons drawn in the first place?? Not sure why officers would be giving the man commands to go back to his vehicle if they felt the need to have their weapons drawn.

 

[JConXtsy]

Why is it so difficult for people to simply do what officers tell them to do??

What if they're deaf? I mean that seriously. Shooting to kill is the first response to insubordination?

I just don't get where the fear comes from especially if I'm an officer with multiple fellow officers all with guns drawn, and the person has their back to us.
I thought it was an acceptance of the job to risk your life as a police officer. Now, they're telling us they aren't going to take one iota of risk.
Do firefighters get to turn around and go home if they show up on the scene and it's already a four-alarm fire?

 

[Medic007]

You tell me... How long is it from him being tazed do you hear, "shots fired?" Did it take a minute? Seconds? A full second even? You tell me... Was he shot before he was tazed? What is the procedure and policy for the use of deadly force? You can sugar coat it all you want. It is a fact though, that 1) Terence Crutcher was shot by a cop. 2) He was not armed. 3) He is now dead.

I put up a video that I plainly said illustrates the danger of someone returning to their vehicle. If that wasn't clear, I don't know how else to present that. So, no, not a false narrative. I didn't embed the Crutcher video because I assumed you would have no trouble finding it. I was right.

Regarding your questions, it is obvious he was shot while standing. Blood doesn't defy gravity. We don't know if he was tazed first, shot first, or simultaneously. TPD hasn't released that. I don't know TPD's procedure and policy for deadly force. As I posted, it may be a bad shoot. I don't know because all of the facts haven't been released. I didn't sugar coat anything, but you already knew that. You just don't like being questioned. I'm not pro police shooting. I'm pro let's stick with the actual facts.

The facts you assert at the end of your post we know are indeed the facts that we know. What happened to the version you posted previously? Can we conclude based on what we know that the shooting was unjustified? Regarding him being unarmed, was that known as a fact to the officers at the time of the shooting? If not, why do folks in the media like to harp on that point? Sitting in your cozy office chair watching and critiquing game film on Sunday is much different than making the split second audible, especially when the decision might be one of life and death. Can you honestly say if you were facing what you perceived to be a potential deadly threat based on very dynamic and evolving information, you would wait until you were staring down the barrel of a firearm pointed at you before you took action?

We now have a situation where police departments have to make a very startling choice. Do they wait to release available video until the investigation concludes and face accusations of hiding their dirty police officers? Or do they release the video without their investigation being complete and watch as the media and sticker badge junior cops across America create a perverse narrative that is full of misinformation? Either way, it seems the answer now is a reaction of violence and no awareness of the accountability that the suspect may have possessed.

Hands up, don't shoot...

 

[BillyRay]

What if they're deaf? I mean that seriously. Shooting to kill is the first response to insubordination?

I just don't get where the fear comes from especially if I'm an officer with multiple fellow officers all with guns drawn, and the person has their back to us.
I thought it was an acceptance of the job to risk your life as a police officer. Now, they're telling us they aren't going to take one iota of risk.
Do firefighters get to turn around and go home if they show up on the scene and it's already a four-alarm fire?

So does being deaf give immunity from at least knowing what to do if officers have weapons drawn on you?? If a person is deaf and officers have guns drawn on them, what halfway intelligent person would think it's still okay to just keep walking around and doing whatever you want??

And as far as the underlined part....police officers take a risk every day they put that uniform on and go to work. Every single day. When I watch that video, I see officers taking steps to MINIMIZE the risk to their lives. Now whether deadly force was wrongfully used, that's a different question.

 

[Medic007]

I thought it was an acceptance of the job to risk your life as a police officer. Now, they're telling us they aren't going to take one iota of risk.

Is there an accepted casualty rate for police officers? If the military mindset of acceptable casualties is going to be forced on the police, they should get to call in bomb strikes and use tanks. If you know a certain percentage is likely to die, you use equipment and tactics to gain a decisive advantage to reduce that number.

Do firefighters get to turn around and go home if they show up on the scene and it's already a four-alarm fire?

No, but they also aren't sent in to fight the fire without protective clothing, an SCBA, and a hose with water spraying out of it either. Would it make sense to ask a firefighter to wait until he was about to burn to death to mitigate the apparent life threat?

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

The invalid premise is that the protesting is what you claim it to be. When you look at the statements of all the different players, there are many different reasons for their protests. Inequality and justice are often mentioned, but not always at the front of the issue. Kenny Stills has said it is an equality issue. I see no problem with it. There is an equality issue in this country. Just because an ostrich buries it's head in the sand doesn't mean there is not an elephant in the room.

If you want to talk dirty cops, etc... I'll be your huckleberry. The Terence Crutcher story in Tulsa is disturbing. Tazed, on the ground. Shot dead. Before he was tazed, he had his hands up. He had no weapon. There was no weapon in his vehicle. When he was shot to death, he lay flat on his stomach in the street not moving, where he had fell as a result of being tazed. There are many more.

As for him needing to STFU... why? You don't like what he says, don't listen.

There's definitely inequality when my first three years' compensation out of OU is compared to Kenny's (link). As I said, he needs to STFU and play football.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/kenny-stills-12425/

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

What makes you think police shoot a person SOLELY on the reason of the person not doing what they are telling him to do?? And I'm sure there are plenty of examples ever nowadays where people don't get shot while not doing what officers are doing as well. Just because you see videos show up on the news of possibly awful judgement by officers, doesn't mean it's rampant or that every officer would do the same thing in the same situation.

But did the police say why the man was walking back to his vehicle while police had weapons drawn on him?? And what occured for them to have weapons drawn in the first place?? Not sure why officers would be giving the man commands to go back to his vehicle if they felt the need to have their weapons drawn.

So he should be shot dead because of not listening? Not following orders? Being under the influence? I don't pretend to read minds, like some on here do. I have no idea why guns were drawn. But I'll be damned if I sit and watch that right there, and not question it. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING he did deserving of death in that video. NOTHING.

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

PCP?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/20/opinions/terence-crutcher-shooting-holloway/index.html

 

[BillyRay]

So he should be shot dead because of not listening? Not following orders? Being under the influence? I don't pretend to read minds, like some on here do. I have no idea why guns were drawn. But I'll be damned if I sit and watch that right there, and not question it. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING he did deserving of death in that video. NOTHING.

And police officers are not able to read minds either. Like I said before, what makes you think this man was shot SOLELY on not listening or following orders?? But when you fail to follow commands, then you give the impression you are more of a threat than you actually are, and hence makes it possible an officer is more likely to use force he/she would not normally use if you were compliant.
I'm not defending the women shooting the guy. From what I see in the video it APPEARS it was an unwarranted use of deadly force. But I also can't hear any kind of conversation between the officers and the subject. So I'm not going to go "all-in" and decide to convict or acquit an officer in this case when it's obvious I don't have all the facts as to what happened, or even led up to what happened.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

There's plenty of videos on Youtube of bad things that happen when people ignore commands and return to their vehicles after police contact. I've included one that resulted in the death of two officers for reference.

View embedded media

I see here a video of a cop not doing what they are trained. He should have shot the suspect when he was continually yelling, "Put the gun down! Put the gun down!"

Apples to oranges. My brother, the lawyer, former cop, was involved in several shootouts in Dallas. It isn't as if I'm anti cop. Cops saved my life. That doesn't excuse the ones who go above and beyond their oath to protect and to serve. Terence Crutcher could have been detained without a shot fired.

 

[JConXtsy]

So does being deaf give immunity from at least knowing what to do if officers have weapons drawn on you?? If a person is deaf and officers have guns drawn on them, what halfway intelligent person would think it's still okay to just keep walking around and doing whatever you want??

Absolutely, I could see how it would happen. Everyone knows that the first thing an officer wants is proof of identity. I could totally see a deaf person assuming that they need to get their ID for the officer.... oops, and it's in the car. Let me just get that for you.

 

[JConXtsy]

Is there an accepted casualty rate for police officers? If the military mindset of acceptable casualties is going to be forced on the police, they should get to call in bomb strikes and use tanks. If you know a certain percentage is likely to die, you use equipment and tactics to gain a decisive advantage to reduce that number.

Nobody is asking anyone to die. I'm asking people to not choose the profession of law enforcement if they're so scared of someone showing their back who may or may not have a weapon.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

Is there an accepted casualty rate for police officers? If the military mindset of acceptable casualties is going to be forced on the police, they should get to call in bomb strikes and use tanks. If you know a certain percentage is likely to die, you use equipment and tactics to gain a decisive advantage to reduce that number.

No, but they also aren't sent in to fight the fire without protective clothing, an SCBA, and a hose with water spraying out of it either. Would it make sense to ask a firefighter to wait until he was about to burn to death to mitigate the apparent life threat?

Is there a declaration of war on citizens? If so, we aren't of the people, for the people, by the people anymore. Oh, we haven't been for a long time...

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

Absolutely, I could see how it would happen. Everyone knows that the first thing an officer wants is proof of identity. I could totally see a deaf person assuming that they need to get their ID for the officer.... oops, and it's in the car. Let me just get that for you.

Why the hell are you trying to make sense? LMAO

 

[JConXtsy]

Why the hell are you trying to make sense? LMAO

Just rubbing my pennies together.

 

[JConXtsy]

They should haze law enforcement officers by giving them blanks and then putting them in one of these situations that they feel is truly real.
If they 'kill' the person, they're fired. If they diffuse the situation, they're on the team.

 

[Medic007]

Nobody is asking anyone to die. I'm asking people to not choose the profession of law enforcement if they're so scared of someone showing their back who may or may not have a weapon.

And unfortunately, that is exactly what's happening. When almost nobody chooses law enforcement as a career, what then?

And the "showing their back" comment isn't reflective of what actually happened. There is a point in the video where his hands are not up and he may be reaching into his vehicle. His side is turned to the officers hence the GSW to his right chest. Is it really that "they're so scared?" Could it maybe be that they are concerned for their safety?

I'm afraid of being run over on the interstate while doing my job. But that's why we take precautions, to minimize that risk. Police work is no difference. Maybe it's my actual experience rather than Sunday morning film review that alters the way I think.

 

[Medic007]

They should haze law enforcement officers by giving them blanks and then putting them in one of these situations that they feel is truly real.
If they 'kill' the person, they're fired. If they diffuse the situation, they're on the team.

Uh, for real? Ever looked into what goes into training a police officer? They aren't learning Microsoft Office. They go a step beyond blanks and hazing. They use Simmunition and can absolutely fail their academy and field training for making terrible decisions. Happens all the time. I'm surprised you weren't aware of that. Maybe you were and were just being sarcastic.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

There's definitely inequality when my first three years' compensation out of OU is compared to Kenny's (link). As I said, he needs to STFU and play football.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/kenny-stills-12425/

You have a degree and don't know the difference in equality and free market capitalism? Maybe you should STFU since you think others don't have the right to speak. How's that work for you?

 

[Medic007]

I see here a video of a cop not doing what they are trained. He should have shot the suspect when he was continually yelling, "Put the gun down! Put the gun down!"

It's interesting you posted this. But I'm very glad you did. Hindsight provides miraculous solutions.

At what point do you feel the officer had the green light to shoot? After the first command? Second command? Tenth command? 6th? We see the results of what waiting for the gun to actually be produced in plain sight was. Tell me exactly what point you feel he should have began firing, the exact point of differentiation between a justfied shoot and excessive force in your opinion. You can reference that point by the video time or number of commands issued, or however you like.

I'd really like to hear your opinion.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

Uh, for real? Ever looked into what goes into training a police officer? They aren't learning Microsoft Office. They go a step beyond blanks and hazing. They use Simmunition and can absolutely fail their academy and field training for making terrible decisions. Happens all the time. I'm surprised you weren't aware of that. Maybe you were and were just being sarcastic.

My brother told me the story of his "mace training..." right in the eyes, stream of pepper spray... He said it dropped him like a rock. He told of others who did the tazer victim bit... Not fun...

What was fun? Catching him at my parents one day when he was unarmed, a very rare occurrence... My dad had a cattle prod he used to influence animals... I decided to see how it worked on piggies, he wasn't amused...