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If you were elected President of the United States

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/29/young-people-socialism_n_1175218.html

I realize that statistics demonstrating trends are not popular among those who are defined in their thinking, but the above link is of a PEW study that shows that among 18-29 year-olds, socialism is now more popular than capitalism.

Even Rasmussen (don't they now do FOX polls?) is finding a waning support for capitalism.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/04/socialism-gaining-ground-in-america.html

What is of concern is the "unchecked capitalism" which is now being seen as out of control.

If you search for polls regarding attitudes, it is not difficult to find a number that see a growing shift. This is largely against unchecked capitalism as the pubic has seen a bit too much of Wall Street out of control. This was actually the original reason for the Tea Party movement.
 
I didn't click on the links. But I'll take your word for it.

What stands out is that you seem to think consensus, even a minority consensus, dictates truth. You are obviously highly educated and your mind is active and strong, but consensus is your proof? No need to answer.
 
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Section22Sooner said:
I didn't click on the links. But I'll take your word for it.

What stands out is that you seem to think consensus, even a minority consensus, dictates truth. You are obviously highly educated and your mind is active and strong, but consensus is your proof? No need to answer.
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Actually, if I were in a minority of one, I would accept my opinion. What I am trying to show with the polls and statistics is how out of touch the majority opinions of some are. It is obvious that a good number of those who have posted on this thread are from a religious tradition that is quite different from that of most people. Yet, this religious ideology thinks that it is the only truth and that all else is wrong. A CBS poll in 2006 that can be found rather easily indicates that most of the nation is Christian, hardly a surprise. Then, it breaks it down into Catholic, Protestant, Muslim,Scientology, atheism, Mormon, and Fundamentalism. Then, it asks the approval/disapproval of each. Most have a fairly high approval rate with a low disapproval rate, except for Muslim, Scientology, atheism, and Fundamentalism. Fundamentalism had an approval rate of 31%, but had exactly the same disapproval rate. More than other religions, it tended to have a high disapproval rate. I think Jew, non-Fundamentalist Protestant, and Catholic had a disapproval rate of less than nine percent. In a Fundamentalist area, there is a tendency to think that this is the only way to look at religion, that it is the truth. Others tend not to like that.

Every year we hear of a war on Christmas. Yet, nobody is trying to hurt Christmas, and most of the public tends to like Christianity as a whole.
 
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Soonersincefitty said:
I had an out of body experience the other night.
Articles of impeachment had been issued...he was squirming like a pig in a trap...

Then I woke up.
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Impeach Earl Warren. Impeach Clinton. Impeach Obama. Nope. I'd love to see Obama impeached. It would assure the defeat of the Republican Party for ten years.
 
Soonersincefitty said:
That's the point ginga.
This guy could be revealed in a video getting his freak on with a shetland pony, and no one is going to impeach the first pseudo black prez.

Not gonna happen.

Happy...pappy?
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I don't think you will impeach anyone very soon. Clinton was dead meat until he was impeached. That made him into a victim. They won't make that mistake again, unless it is one of the true nuts that just can't help himself. Boehner will not let it happen.
 
I don't know about you all but being a white guy and the cause of everyone's problems and supposedly super rich, entitled and privileged...I think I'm being cheated because if I'm supposed to have all those things, someone else must be stealing them. I sure don't remember feeling privileged when I was a young teen out hunting squirrel and deer to eat and cutting/splitting wood to feed the wood stove to keep warm. Or the time I was turned down for an SBA loan because I am a white male not a black female (true story and actual words used to tell me why I wouldn't get it).

It's all good though. I have some combat experience so when it comes time to apply the appropriate amount of pressure to assure my personal freedom to live without fear that everything I have will be taken away and given to others, I have confidence that I can handle my own. So those who want to come get what I have that I've worked hard to obtain, I say let's do it. I can assure you that I'm not alone in that respect so bring lots of friends.
 
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syb talk about Fed criminal convictions on the Southern border including Cali vs. number of cases along the Canadian border. Be specific on "Sanctuary" cities in your numbers, say 2006 vs 2014. Just curious.
 
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LH24ND said:
Rid the country of every single thing possible this lawless President has inflicted on the country.
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Can we go back then and throw GDub and his cronies in prison for what they inflicted on this country? Some of you people are straight up retarded.
 
OU50 said:
Can we go back then and throw GDub and his cronies in prison for what they inflicted on this country? Some of you people are straight up retarded.
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What's up with the name calling 50? I don't agree with everybody that posted on this thread, but I sure wouldn't call them a name.
 
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K2C, Are we forgetting the emotion part? The emotion often times causes us to name call.

As you know, we who deal with logic tend to be less hostile. You, my Sooner brother, tend to be less hostile.

Our Sooner brother sybarite is civil. I'd like to take him for an up close look at the Crow, Navajo, and Blackfoot communities. I never hung around with the Sioux much, but I've heard all the horror stories.These wretched places might turn him against current leadership.

And I've spent some time at 59 precincts in Philadelphia and Cleveland. These ghettos look like Glendale compared to the Indians mentioned here.

American Indians are our Nation's most subsidized minorities. It's not working out so well, but the Utopians never stop "helping".
 
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Sunburnt Indian said:
K2C, Are we forgetting the emotion part? The emotion often times causes us to name call.

As you know, we who deal with logic tend to be less hostile. You, my Sooner brother, tend to be less hostile.

Our Sooner brother sybarite is civil. I'd like to take him for an up close look at the Crow, Navajo, and Blackfoot communities. I never hung around with the Sioux much, but I've heard all the horror stories.These wretched places might turn him against current leadership.

And I've spent some time at 59 precincts in Philadelphia and Cleveland. These ghettos look like Glendale compared to the Indians mentioned here.

American Indians are our Nation's most subsidized minorities. It's not working out so well, but the Utopians never stop "helping".
Click to expand...
Have you made the assumption that I don't care about the tragedy that has been inflicted on Native Americans? When you see the discrimination against one group, you also become aware of the discrimination against all groups. But, you can't do anything about it if you don't begin somewhere.

Although I am not satisfied with Obama in some areas, I would be horrified (and have been) by the disdain shown to the poor by those who claim to be conservatives and capitalists, which are neither. He is a temporary bandage on problems that require surgery.
 
Sunburnt, you are quite correct again...but I am kind of concerned, if not down right terrified with the direction the country is headed.

Let's put it this way...I was going to pose a poll to the local gentry here that went somthing like this...

What is going to happen first?

OU will win its 8th national title in football.

OR; Iran will build a nuclear bomb and the delivery system to detonate it above Tel Aviv, Israel.
(Going for a twofer)
 
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Sunburnt Indian said:
K2C, Are we forgetting the emotion part? The emotion often times causes us to name call.

As you know, we who deal with logic tend to be less hostile. You, my Sooner brother, tend to be less hostile.

Our Sooner brother sybarite is civil. I'd like to take him for an up close look at the Crow, Navajo, and Blackfoot communities. I never hung around with the Sioux much, but I've heard all the horror stories.These wretched places might turn him against current leadership.

And I've spent some time at 59 precincts in Philadelphia and Cleveland. These ghettos look like Glendale compared to the Indians mentioned here.

American Indians are our Nation's most subsidized minorities. It's not working out so well, but the Utopians never stop "helping".
Click to expand...


I'm not a traveled person like many on this board. There are four things I've seen in my limited travels that appalled me.

The first was traveling through Mississippi as a child and seeing blacks living in shanty houses where the cotton grew right up to the door steps. The kid's my age were working the fields. This was in the early 60's.

The second was going through Saint Louis in the early seventies and seeing all the LBJ housing products built only ten years earlier turned into boarded up slums.

Third traveling through New Mexico and going through the Apache Reservation. Mud type houses with abandoned cars and skinny dogs. All I could think of was why in America would anyone not break out of that system.

Last was right here in Oklahoma. I once had to call on a grocery store in a place between Sallisaw and Stilwell, near the Arkansas border. Again I believe it was Indian land owned by the Cherokees. I saw the same type shanty housing I saw in Mississippi as a child. Believe it or not but the only trash service to the village was a free running creek where everybody dumped their trash.

Hard to believe all this still happens today.
 
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I recommend reading "Please Stop Helping Us, How Liberals Make it Harder For Blacks to Succeed" by Jason L. Riley.

The Wall Street Journal asks, "Why is it that so many efforts by Liberals to lift the black underclass not only fail, but often harm the intended beneficiaries?"

J. C. Watts and I wonder if the Liberals really care if blacks are left without benefit. So long as the vote remains.

Black America is in depression with an unemployment number that doubles that of whites. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

I had a front row seat to watch the total destruction of the Navajo and Crow cultures by Liberals. A Liberal decided taxpayers needed to build pool halls at taxpayer expense because we had been so mean to the Indians. When thinking Democrats and Republicans opposed, they were charged with racism and called "Indian hater". The thinking dropped their opposition. Result: We turned a reasonably productive people to unproductive.

CBS Evening News recently told me the Navajo north of Gallup now has an 80 percent unemployment rate. In my 12 years worth of visits from 1991-2003, unemployment was "only" 65-70 percent.

Shauna wishes to marry her children's father. She manages an apartment complex. Father works at Caterpillar. Marriage would put Liberal "gifts" at far too great a risk, so marriage is out. 72 percent of black children are now born out of wedlock. Thank you, "War on Poverty".

I know food stamp dealers. But that's for another day.
 
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Sunburnt Indian said:
I recommend reading "Please Stop Helping Us, How Liberals Make it Harder For Blacks to Succeed" by Jason L. Riley.

The Wall Street Journal asks, "Why is it that so many efforts by Liberals to lift the black underclass not only fail, but often harm the intended beneficiaries?"

J. C. Watts and I wonder if the Liberals really care if blacks are left without benefit. So long as the vote remains.

Black America is in depression with an unemployment number that doubles that of whites. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

I had a front row seat to watch the total destruction of the Navajo and Crow cultures by Liberals. A Liberal decided taxpayers needed to build pool halls at taxpayer expense because we had been so mean to the Indians. When thinking Democrats and Republicans opposed, they were charged with racism and called "Indian hater". The thinking dropped their opposition. Result: We turned a reasonably productive people to unproductive.

CBS Evening News recently told me the Navajo north of Gallup now has an 80 percent unemployment rate. In my 12 years worth of visits from 1991-2003, unemployment was "only" 65-70 percent.

Shauna wishes to marry her children's father. She manages an apartment complex. Father works at Caterpillar. Marriage would put Liberal "gifts" at far too great a risk, so marriage is out. 72 percent of black children are now born out of wedlock. Thank you, "War on Poverty".

I know food stamp dealers. But that's for another day.
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Nice post Sunburnt Indian. The reality of liberals is that they believe a liberal policy cannot fail. Instead of admitting failure, they blame conservatives for messing it up or claim a bigger, more overseeing government and more rich taxpayer dollars are needed to create the success they envision. A liberal can smell success through the huge pile of stinking trash the liberal policy created while the rest of us are looking for a way to clean the pile of trash up.

One interesting thing I've learned about the Democrat party over the years is that there is a ruling minority and an enslaved low information majority. Liberals make up the minority and the recipients of their policies make up the majority. What is most interesting is that the different populations in the majority don't give a shit or even understand anything about the liberal agenda that doesn't pertain to them.
 
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After the Civil War, there were several books that were commissioned by some rich patrons that had the goal of proving that African-Americans were genetically inferior to caucasians. Indeed, the authors provided their "evidence" to support these "theories." No legitimate scientist would have anything to do with this nonsense. Books supporting some agenda are often simply propaganda pieces. I wouldn't bother reading a paragraph written by Ann Coulter, William O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, or other whose sole purpose is to advance their agenda. I also don't buy books written by the left that advance an agenda. Don't bother me with FOX or Wall Street Journal opinion pieces. There are legitimate sources, but even these are often slanted to generate controversy that sells air time rather than concerned with accuracy.

If you want to read intelligent works, pick up a book by Lisa Randall, a Harvard physicist who writes about the various theories involved in the work around the supercollider. When you read the writings of someone that is intelligent, the less than mediocre intelligence of political agenda purveyors becomes more obvious.

Concerning the postal service----let's see exactly what it does. If you examine the name of your home town in Oklahoma, you may well find that it was named after the local postmaster at the time the town was chartered and named. The US Government did maintain a way to communicate throughout the nation by creating post offices where there was nothing else. If that had not been done, many parts of the nation would never have been developed. Eventually, various hauling services survived by getting mail contracts, like Wells Fargo or Overland. New airlines were developed that survived because they had mail contracts to get mail to places like the northwest and Alaska. When it wasn't profitable for commercial interests to venture into the raw new Oklahoma territories, mail service kept things in contact. Civilized nations have mail.

When I was young, we had mail delivery twice a day, once on Saturday, in most cities. Rural routes used once a day delivery, but it was the only way to get a newspaper. It used to bother me that the Sunday paper had the Friday night baseball scores, but none from Saturday, and the paper was not delivered until Monday.

When they privatized a part of the postal service, opening up some services to commercial enterprises, there was no requirement that Federal Express deliver next day service to Cambridge, OK. The commercial firms were able to take only what was profitable. The unprofitable responsibilities was left to the postal service. Yet, several of these commercial services have gone bankrupt, despite having only the profitable parts of delivery. Meanwhile, the post office continues to deliver to places that Federal Express would never send a truck.

It is not meant to be profitable. It is meant to be there to provide a service.
 
See, you're as biased as anyone here in that you also cherry pick your heros.
Nothing wrong with that.
As long as you realize the opposing point of view is just as valid to us as yours is to you.

The Post Office?
Don't make a profit...fine, at least aspire to break even.
Same song as usual. Go ahead, run a huge loss, year after year.
We'll just print up some more money and keep you afloat.
It's a pisser.
 
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Someone brought up the idea that Israel might fall as a result of our dealing with Iran, as well as the idea that terrorists might gain access to nuclear weapons.

I think we can stop the discussion of Israel. Nobody is going to let Israel fall. They may as well be a fifty-first state. There will be disagreements as they and we go through different types of leaders, but all discussion of a collapse in the relationship are nothing more than political posturing. Having friends in Israel, they indicate that there is as much dissent within Israel as from without. Once told me that if it weren't for the enemies, Israel might well fall from within due to the different groups.

Iran as a source of weapons is rather unlikely. We have lived with nuclear weapons now for seventy years. For the first time, the world has become too afraid of its largest weapons to use them. We went through a fifty year Cold War with the US and Russia having nuclear weapons, and we were both afraid to use them. It resulted in a lot of posturing, and it did result in a rather profitable industry, for awhile, in building bomb shelters. Generally, countries that have had nuclear weapons realize their danger.

We have a very misguided sense of Iran and who they are. We kind of lump them inn with the Arab world, but only about two or three percent of Iran are Arabic. About seventy percent are Persian or Indo-European and speak Persian. They are not a nomadic people. They tend to be more educated than we might believe. They were pretty much into education until the Islamic revolt, and they still do have extensive education and industry, although having it controlled by the religious leadership which tends to promote industry and only involve itself in religious matters. They are a nation of about 78 million, almost the population of Germany. The area of Iran is about half that of western Europe, if not more. It is an old country and civilization, quite different from the Arab world.

If terrorists were to gain access to nuclear weapons, it would be more likely that it would be from a privately-funded source than from one of the nuclear powers, either than or from the corruption of individuals that might assist in theft. Even then, you have delivery problems. I doubt that a nuclear power would ever be involved. It is in Iran's interests to generate industry, not weapons. They have no enemies that plan to attack them, and I don't know if they have attacked anyone in the past two thousand years. The fact that they are at the table with the US indicates that they are more concerned abut their economy than in weapon systems.

We''re in a new era, and the economy will have more power than weapons. Despite our problems, we are still the major economy, as athe Chinese stock market is proving.
 
sybarite said:
Someone brought up the idea that Israel might fall as a result of our dealing with Iran, as well as the idea that terrorists might gain access to nuclear weapons.

I think we can stop the discussion of Israel. Nobody is going to let Israel fall. They may as well be a fifty-first state. There will be disagreements as they and we go through different types of leaders, but all discussion of a collapse in the relationship are nothing more than political posturing. Having friends in Israel, they indicate that there is as much dissent within Israel as from without. Once told me that if it weren't for the enemies, Israel might well fall from within due to the different groups.

Iran as a source of weapons is rather unlikely. We have lived with nuclear weapons now for seventy years. For the first time, the world has become too afraid of its largest weapons to use them. We went through a fifty year Cold War with the US and Russia having nuclear weapons, and we were both afraid to use them. It resulted in a lot of posturing, and it did result in a rather profitable industry, for awhile, in building bomb shelters. Generally, countries that have had nuclear weapons realize their danger.

We have a very misguided sense of Iran and who they are. We kind of lump them inn with the Arab world, but only about two or three percent of Iran are Arabic. About seventy percent are Persian or Indo-European and speak Persian. They are not a nomadic people. They tend to be more educated than we might believe. They were pretty much into education until the Islamic revolt, and they still do have extensive education and industry, although having it controlled by the religious leadership which tends to promote industry and only involve itself in religious matters. They are a nation of about 78 million, almost the population of Germany. The area of Iran is about half that of western Europe, if not more. It is an old country and civilization, quite different from the Arab world.

If terrorists were to gain access to nuclear weapons, it would be more likely that it would be from a privately-funded source than from one of the nuclear powers, either than or from the corruption of individuals that might assist in theft. Even then, you have delivery problems. I doubt that a nuclear power would ever be involved. It is in Iran's interests to generate industry, not weapons. They have no enemies that plan to attack them, and I don't know if they have attacked anyone in the past two thousand years. The fact that they are at the table with the US indicates that they are more concerned abut their economy than in weapon systems.

We''re in a new era, and the economy will have more power than weapons. Despite our problems, we are still the major economy, as athe Chinese stock market is proving.
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Sybarite,

Your post shows either your naivete or biased ideology in my opinion.

I agree that Israel will not fall but my perspective is based more on my religious faith (which you will undoubtedly assess as unreasonable due to your atheistic bent) than on any "reasoned" speculation. Times are different now and the past appears to be rendered moot. You are using the high-road common sense and prior history ground that apparently does not take into consideration today's religious (Islamic) extremism and zealotry. Most of the world tends to be rational regarding nuclear weapons but this term is irrelevant in the fanatical religious realm. We could be one unified and holy fatwa, jihad, or qala away from nuclear escalation and destruction. There is nothing rational about "extremism". It acknowledges religious principle and duty over economic and business/industry policies...my opinion. They believe their way is the only way and peaceful co-habitation regarding any tolerance for differing ideologies does not exist in their extremist world.

Your, "Iran as a source of weapons is rather unlikely", is absurd in my opinion. We have become a non-confrontational country under present administration and the extremists see this as our weakness (ala British P.M. Chamberlain acquiescing to the Nazis). Iran, a Muslim nation, is run by misguided religious extremists who may wish to ignite an Armageddon situation under certain conditions. What if Iran decides to export its weaponry and technology to other radical Islamic countries (they already are rapidly spreading their armed and economic influence throughout the fanatical Arab/Muslim arena) who presently view the U.S. and Israel as the ultimate infidels to be eradicated? Previous economic sanctions - though damaging to the Iranian economy - have not stopped Iran from gaining the necessary technology and wherewithal to construct destructive weaponry. Not to mention the unreliability of the Iranian regime to abide by previous contractual obligations.

Thank you for the civics lesson on Iran as if it has any bearing on the ultimate decisions made by their radical leaders.

As for your, "If terrorists were to gain access to nuclear weapons, it would more likely that it would be from a privately-funded source...", all I can say is wow! Russian, China, North Korea (Communist countries - Russia - and possibly China - is already government funding and exporting nuclear technology and defense weaponry to Iran) and Pakistan (all four weakened economies) all possess nuclear weaponry. With their ideologies they would not hesitate, IMO, to deliver technology and weaponry to the Muslim theater and thereby creating a potential proxy situation in the potential defeat scenario of Israel and her allies.

This is no longer a rational world and the world is very fragile economically. Tensions are strained throughout the world probably greater than anytime I can remember. There is nothing logical anymore regarding rogue - or otherwise - extremist ideology.

I'm not saying you are wrong but your post seems to fail the smell test for me.

Hope you're right.

Boomer Sooner
 
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fortworth4ou2 said:
Sybarite,

Your post shows either your naivete or biased ideology in my opinion.

I agree that Israel will not fall but my perspective is based more on my religious faith (which you will undoubtedly assess as unreasonable due to your atheistic bent) than on any "reasoned" speculation. Times are different now and the past appears to be rendered moot. You are using the high-road common sense and prior history ground that apparently does not take into consideration today's religious (Islamic) extremism and zealotry. Most of the world tends to be rational regarding nuclear weapons but this term is irrelevant in the fanatical religious realm. We could be one unified and holy fatwa, jihad, or qala away from nuclear escalation and destruction. There is nothing rational about "extremism". It acknowledges religious principle and duty over economic and business/industry policies...my opinion. They believe their way is the only way and peaceful co-habitation regarding any tolerance for differing ideologies does not exist in their extremist world.

Your, "Iran as a source of weapons is rather unlikely", is absurd in my opinion. We have become a non-confrontational country under present administration and the extremists see this as our weakness (ala British P.M. Chamberlain acquiescing to the Nazis). Iran, a Muslim nation, is run by misguided religious extremists who may wish to ignite an Armageddon situation under certain conditions. What if Iran decides to export its weaponry and technology to other radical Islamic countries (they already are rapidly spreading their armed and economic influence throughout the fanatical Arab/Muslim arena) who presently view the U.S. and Israel as the ultimate infidels to be eradicated? Previous economic sanctions - though damaging to the Iranian economy - have not stopped Iran from gaining the necessary technology and wherewithal to construct destructive weaponry. Not to mention the unreliability of the Iranian regime to abide by previous contractual obligations.

Thank you for the civics lesson on Iran as if it has any bearing on the ultimate decisions made by their radical leaders.

As for your, "If terrorists were to gain access to nuclear weapons, it would more likely that it would be from a privately-funded source...", all I can say is wow! Russian, China, North Korea (Communist countries - Russia - and possibly China - is already government funding and exporting nuclear technology and defense weaponry to Iran) and Pakistan (all four weakened economies) all possess nuclear weaponry and, with their ideologies, would not hesitate, IMO, to deliver technology and weaponry thereby creating a potential proxy situation among Muslim nations in the potential defeat of Israel and her allies.

This is no longer a rational world and the world is very fragile economically. Tensions are strained throughout the world probably greater than anytime I can remember. There is nothing logical anymore regarding rogue - or otherwise - extremist ideology.

I'm not saying you are wrong but your post seems to fail the smell test for me.

Hope you're right.

Boomer Sooner
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Get in or GTFO. You can't be a sometimes player in this and you can't play both sides. We all have that Aunt or Uncle who tries to appease anyone and they are neither respected nor admired. If we want to go back to pre WW1 policies of isolation then do it, if you want to be the dominant power on the world stage then do it. If you want to build coalitions of maybes then you'll be the Neville Chamberlain of your time. (see "peace for our time").

I hate all this wishy washy maybe...but culture. Lead or get out of the freaking way. I prefer manifest destiny (which incidentally is a democratic party invention) myself, forget about Europe and the Middle East and let's focus on what matters which is our own back yard. Monroe doctrine...check let's worry about the Americas and helping our fellow people here rather than get entangled in this garbage that is the Middle East/Russia/Europe. If they want to bring it, we are more than capable. It's either that or bully your way to whatever we want and of course that isn't going to improve things even if we could do it.

Black and White, Do or Do not...quit being a total vagina about it and let's do what we need to do...and what we need to do is take care of own sad ass situation here (see Greece and all it's financial idiocy).
 
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AbsoluteZer0 said:
Get in or GTFO. You can't be a sometimes player in this and you can't play both sides. We all have that Aunt or Uncle who tries to appease anyone and they are neither respected nor admired. If we want to go back to pre WW1 policies of isolation then do it, if you want to be the dominant power on the world stage then do it. If you want to build coalitions of maybes then you'll be the Neville Chamberlain of your time. (see "peace for our time").

I hate all this wishy washy maybe...but culture. Lead or get out of the freaking way. I prefer manifest destiny (which incidentally is a democratic party invention) myself, forget about Europe and the Middle East and let's focus on what matters which is our own back yard. Monroe doctrine...check let's worry about the Americas and helping our fellow people here rather than get entangled in this garbage that is the Middle East/Russia/Europe. If they want to bring it, we are more than capable. It's either that or bully your way to whatever we want and of course that isn't going to improve things even if we could do it.

Black and White, Do or Do not...quit being a total vagina about it and let's do what we need to do...and what we need to do is take care of own sad ass situation here (see Greece and all it's financial idiocy).
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AZ,

It's unfortunate but, we currently live in a "maybes" world under present admin. It's the new "black and white". It's advanced by the rapidly spreading PC culture (endorsed by the Left) and other apparent Socialist ideology. And I, like you, abhor this wishy-washy garbage.

Our own laws and PC advocacy are being exploited by foreign radicals causing the slow and potential long-term erosion of the Monroe Doctrine. We are becoming "Europeanized" and "Muslimized". We are being infiltrated and assaulted from within by foreign interests via our own failed immigration and political policies

We can't abandon our interests around the world as it would place our continued existence - as well as those of our allies - in immense jeopardy.
 
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I agree, the deal has 60 days for our elected officials to read, discuss and present to the American populace to decide to pass the Obama/Kerry team deal or not (Or syb will double down on trying to persuade us how absolutely fabulous it will be to 'be friends with our enemies') :rolleyes:
 
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iasooner1 said:
I agree, the deal has 60 days for our elected officials to read, discuss and present to the American populace to decide to pass the Obama/Kerry team deal or not (Or syb will double down on trying to persuade us how absolutely fabulous it will be to 'be friends with our enemies') :rolleyes:
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The 60 day Congressional review crap was allowed by Dear Leader Barry as a means to convince the skeptical populace that he doesn't act like the Dictator in Chief. He's already said that if Congress votes no deal, he'll just veto it in true dictator form.

The reality is Barry is choosing to forge ahead with any kind of deal for the sake of his "legacy." He's already shown he has no regard for this country, its security, or its citizens.
 
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It is interesting that so many want to bomb Iran. Prior to World War II, this country was rather popular. One of the key reasons is that we tended not to get involved in world affairs. We tended to remain in our own region, and our primary doctrines applied to the Western Hemisphere. Subsequent to World War II, we have not had any time in which we weren't at war or somehow engaged in something somewhere. As a result, we actually fell behind Russia in popularity and trust during the Iraq encounter. Recently, we have restored some of that trust with our tendency to involve world leaders in our discussions.

What do you think would happen if we were to bomb Iran? I suspect the world has had enough of our wars that are against international law? Bombing Iran would probably result in a much more major uptick in anti-American cooperation than you might think. At the very least, we would become the target of sanctions, and we could easily find ourselves disinvited to some of our regional military installations. Iran is not Iraq or Granada.

The Cowboys and Indians mentality was stupid in the movies, and even more stupid as a foreign policy. We killed every Native American ten times in movies, and only Custer was killed in retaliation. The hero always walked down main street and gave the villain a fair chance to outdraw him, except that such gunfights almost never happened. Mostly, a lot of people shot a lot of people in the back.

With the exception of Netanyahu who has been claiming for twenty-five years that Iran was within three to five years of getting a nuclear weapon, the entire world has greeted this treaty with favor. Germany, France, Russia, China, and about everyone except Netanyahu and Saudi Arabia has been overjoyed to see a viable agreement.

What, exactly, have we accomplished by our incursions into Iraq and South Viet Nam? Did we "win" either? Did we have the staying power? One of the key things to a war is to have sufficient support to fight it. In the Constitution, it specifies that Congress should declare war. Congress hasn't declared war since December 8, 1941 (retroactive to the seventh), and we haven't had the support of the public in anything other than loudmouth lip service in any war since WWII. So, you want to enter into another war that Congress doesn't have the guts to declare, the people don't want, and which will escalate hostilities all over the world? Excellent foreign policy.
 
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