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I was an OU SAE from '83-'85

Phaeded

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Jun 5, 2001
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I dropped out of the house my senior year, but was there long enough to know what the culture was. The bottom line is I have I never heard that racist chant before. Period. In fact the pledge chairman in my class (and ultimately president of the chapter), was friends with Spencer Tillman while both were at Tulsa Edison and talked of trying to get Spencer to pledge (and I doubt he'd have anything nice to say about SAE at this point, save his old friend). No one had a problem with offering Spencer (not that he would have had any interest; today he is of course a CBS analyst); quite the contrary - that was "cool." The house was hardly a model of diversity - about a fourth of us were Lebanese or Jewish - but otherwise just white suburban or small town kids from OK and TX (about half and half), mainly middle class, although a few were obviously from rich oil families. To point out just one Texan, because it was in the press, you might recall the Cedric Benson stolen flat screen arrest - his local Midland, TX attorney was an OU SAE from the class below me. Of course we were not models of anything - enough drugs were consumed on the premises to kill an extended family of bigfoots. Ultimately the fraternity chapter was killed in 1988 for hazing, and then brought back a few years later. Unfortunately.

I will readily admit nothing speaks more to a culture than its songs - so what happened to this chapter to the point that today's members would think it "cool" to sing that vileness in front of dates or even just to themselves? It's convenient to compartmentalize this ugliness to "d-bag frats" and lump them collectively as racist pigs….but these kids were not from some special Nazi enclaves in Nichols Hills or Highland Park, but rather are very representative white families throughout TX and OK. So how does the essence of this problem not bear on their familial and hometown cultures? They suddenly became "Nazis" when they joined a fraternity? Please. Not going to deny there hasn't always been less than savory characters in the Greek system, but I do not remember any overt acts of racism in school or in the house (such as this chant).



To me then, the unavoidable question is: what happened to OK/TX white suburban and small town culture to allow the sons of what are undoubtedly "normal" enough families to engage in this ugliness…with impunity? The rest of the country is going PC-crazy, which makes this turn of events all the more unfathomable.

Granted I've been in Chicago since '91 and somewhat out of touch with the local culture, but my folks are still in OKC and I visit a couple of times a years to get some inkling of what is going on, but obviously I'm the wrong person to weigh in here with any definitive theory. I do have a guess of course and that guess involves the regional sea-change of attitudes, across all conservative media, towards the bi-racial man sitting in the Oval Office. Perhaps it's just a coincidence that this chant of ugliness raised its head after seven years of unmitigated alarmism in regard to the president's "socialist" policies but it does seem that those bitter opinions have acculturated children to the point that they now think it is cute to be bigots.

Perhaps I'm wrong. Just some bad eggs isolated to the Greek system. But I doubt it.


I would honestly like to know your opinions.

In parting - thank you President Boren for giving me the only action to be proud of yesterday.
 
I have been long gone from OU for many years, but I wonder what the overall attitude of the overall membership of SAE is towards race and if the other members feel the same as the guys on the bus. If this small group of SAE's on the bus....probably drinking....got the entire chapter killed would be sad if the other members didn't feel the same way. I totally agree with the identified students getting expelled, but what about the other SAE members who feel the opposite of the freshmen that sang that song? There are thousands of current and ex members of that fraternity that don't feel that way but they bear the burden of the few that got the publicity. If I was an ex member I would be extremely PO'd at those that caused this.
 
Oh yeah, the unintended consequences of the two percenters, the bane to mankind since we invented fire...(I was there..;)

You got to feel for the innocent dupes that weren't on the bus and don't have any racists tendencies, having to find somewhere else to live and listening to the inevitable cracks such as..."Oh yeah, you're from that Klucker frat" and all that crap...

That has to just suck balls.
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Originally posted by Phaeded:


I dropped out of the house my senior year, but was there long enough to know what the culture was. The bottom line is I have I never heard that racist chant before. Period. In fact the pledge chairman in my class (and ultimately president of the chapter), was friends with Spencer Tillman while both were at Tulsa Edison and talked of trying to get Spencer to pledge (and I doubt he'd have anything nice to say about SAE at this point, save his old friend). No one had a problem with offering Spencer (not that he would have had any interest; today he is of course a CBS analyst); quite the contrary - that was "cool." The house was hardly a model of diversity - about a fourth of us were Lebanese or Jewish - but otherwise just white suburban or small town kids from OK and TX (about half and half), mainly middle class, although a few were obviously from rich oil families. To point out just one Texan, because it was in the press, you might recall the Cedric Benson stolen flat screen arrest - his local Midland, TX attorney was an OU SAE from the class below me. Of course we were not models of anything - enough drugs were consumed on the premises to kill an extended family of bigfoots. Ultimately the fraternity chapter was killed in 1988 for hazing, and then brought back a few years later. Unfortunately.

I will readily admit nothing speaks more to a culture than its songs - so what happened to this chapter to the point that today's members would think it "cool" to sing that vileness in front of dates or even just to themselves? It's convenient to compartmentalize this ugliness to "d-bag frats" and lump them collectively as racist pigs….but these kids were not from some special Nazi enclaves in Nichols Hills or Highland Park, but rather are very representative white families throughout TX and OK. So how does the essence of this problem not bear on their familial and hometown cultures? They suddenly became "Nazis" when they joined a fraternity? Please. Not going to deny there hasn't always been less than savory characters in the Greek system, but I do not remember any overt acts of racism in school or in the house (such as this chant).



To me then, the unavoidable question is: what happened to OK/TX white suburban and small town culture to allow the sons of what are undoubtedly "normal" enough families to engage in this ugliness…with impunity? The rest of the country is going PC-crazy, which makes this turn of events all the more unfathomable.

Granted I've been in Chicago since '91 and somewhat out of touch with the local culture, but my folks are still in OKC and I visit a couple of times a years to get some inkling of what is going on, but obviously I'm the wrong person to weigh in here with any definitive theory. I do have a guess of course and that guess involves the regional sea-change of attitudes, across all conservative media, towards the bi-racial man sitting in the Oval Office. Perhaps it's just a coincidence that this chant of ugliness raised its head after seven years of unmitigated alarmism in regard to the president's "socialist" policies but it does seem that those bitter opinions have acculturated children to the point that they now think it is cute to be bigots.

Perhaps I'm wrong. Just some bad eggs isolated to the Greek system. But I doubt it.


I would honestly like to know your opinions.

In parting - thank you President Boren for giving me the only action to be proud of yesterday.
That has been said by a lot of former members. You wonder if the overall climate today, with Ferguson, etc., has kind of brought these kinds of attitudes to the surface.
 
Originally posted by OU50:
Originally posted by Phaeded:


I dropped out of the house my senior year, but was there long enough to know what the culture was. The bottom line is I have I never heard that racist chant before. Period. In fact the pledge chairman in my class (and ultimately president of the chapter), was friends with Spencer Tillman while both were at Tulsa Edison and talked of trying to get Spencer to pledge (and I doubt he'd have anything nice to say about SAE at this point, save his old friend). No one had a problem with offering Spencer (not that he would have had any interest; today he is of course a CBS analyst); quite the contrary - that was "cool." The house was hardly a model of diversity - about a fourth of us were Lebanese or Jewish - but otherwise just white suburban or small town kids from OK and TX (about half and half), mainly middle class, although a few were obviously from rich oil families. To point out just one Texan, because it was in the press, you might recall the Cedric Benson stolen flat screen arrest - his local Midland, TX attorney was an OU SAE from the class below me. Of course we were not models of anything - enough drugs were consumed on the premises to kill an extended family of bigfoots. Ultimately the fraternity chapter was killed in 1988 for hazing, and then brought back a few years later. Unfortunately.

I will readily admit nothing speaks more to a culture than its songs - so what happened to this chapter to the point that today's members would think it "cool" to sing that vileness in front of dates or even just to themselves? It's convenient to compartmentalize this ugliness to "d-bag frats" and lump them collectively as racist pigs….but these kids were not from some special Nazi enclaves in Nichols Hills or Highland Park, but rather are very representative white families throughout TX and OK. So how does the essence of this problem not bear on their familial and hometown cultures? They suddenly became "Nazis" when they joined a fraternity? Please. Not going to deny there hasn't always been less than savory characters in the Greek system, but I do not remember any overt acts of racism in school or in the house (such as this chant).



To me then, the unavoidable question is: what happened to OK/TX white suburban and small town culture to allow the sons of what are undoubtedly "normal" enough families to engage in this ugliness…with impunity? The rest of the country is going PC-crazy, which makes this turn of events all the more unfathomable.

Granted I've been in Chicago since '91 and somewhat out of touch with the local culture, but my folks are still in OKC and I visit a couple of times a years to get some inkling of what is going on, but obviously I'm the wrong person to weigh in here with any definitive theory. I do have a guess of course and that guess involves the regional sea-change of attitudes, across all conservative media, towards the bi-racial man sitting in the Oval Office. Perhaps it's just a coincidence that this chant of ugliness raised its head after seven years of unmitigated alarmism in regard to the president's "socialist" policies but it does seem that those bitter opinions have acculturated children to the point that they now think it is cute to be bigots.

Perhaps I'm wrong. Just some bad eggs isolated to the Greek system. But I doubt it.


I would honestly like to know your opinions.

In parting - thank you President Boren for giving me the only action to be proud of yesterday.
That has been said by a lot of former members. You wonder if the overall climate today, with Ferguson, etc., has kind of brought these kinds of attitudes to the surface.
The wife, who has nothing to do with these boards etc but always is interested in OU news received her news email updates and the whole ugly ordeal came up. She thought that perhaps the 50th year Selma Celebration over the weekend might have had something to do with it. It was just a guess on her end. Who knows really.

Pheaded...you're bring it today. Very solid post.

This post was edited on 3/10 5:07 PM by WhyNotaSooner
 
The overt racism that was evident in the pre-WWII era of the country was gradually marginalized in mainstream society from the end of the war to the culmination of the Civil Rights Acts (more than one) of the sixties. Whereas it had been mainstream to practice and embellish racism and its symbols, it became necessary to go back into the closet in the post-war era. It still existed, but it was under the surface.

When it began to emerge, it didn't come our of the closet as racism, but disguised as other causes: welfare reform, state's rights, etc. It has gradually been growing during the past fifty years, in many ways more instilled than it had been earlier. It is probably more institutionalized in other parts of the country now than in the thirties, disguised as other agendas.

This was not a surprise, only a revelation of the undercurrent. The biggest surprise to those who will be expelled is that they probably thought it was something that they could do. After all, as long as it had been behind closed doors, they had been wallowing in it with impunity. I really wonder whether many are upset that it existed, or that it was exposed.
 
Phaeded, I don't post much in the forum, but I wanted to give you another perspective on this issue. You, and others, seem to inject political reasons behind the SAE racist rants. This has nothing to do with conservatism or people legitimately opposed to Obama's policies. The culprits in question were simply reprobates. I don't blame liberals for very questionable acts committed by anarchists and other Left-wing fanatics. Just recently, a self-identified 'gun-toting atheist' murdered several Muslims. I don't blame atheists for his actions.

In my own extended family, I had a few liberal, 'FDR' democrats who, when discussing race, sounded like the KKK. Should I blame FDR or liberals for their views? No.

The university acted quickly and responsibly on this issue. Cudos to Boren. All the anger and disgust should be focused on the perpetrators in question, not on another battle between conservatives and liberals who want to make additional talking points to bolster their worldviews.
 
When it began to emerge, it didn't come our of the closet as racism, but disguised as other causes: welfare reform, state's rights, etc.

sybarite:

Welfare reform and state's rights are disguised as racism? Not so fast.

All powers not delegated to the Federal goverment are delegated to the States. We do not live in 'Imperial' America. We have a constitutional republic with a union of 50 states. Both the Feds and the States have significant power (10th Amendment). It's Federalism.

Welfare reform had it's recent biggest push during.......the Clinton Admistration. Clinton was a Democrat. He worked with Congress to pass the reforms. Requiring people to look for work is not racist. It's common sense.
 
Originally posted by OU_47_straight:

When it began to emerge, it didn't come our of the closet as racism, but disguised as other causes: welfare reform, state's rights, etc.

sybarite:

Welfare reform and state's rights are disguised as racism? Not so fast.

All powers not delegated to the Federal goverment are delegated to the States. We do not live in 'Imperial' America. We have a constitutional republic with a union of 50 states. Both the Feds and the States have significant power (10th Amendment). It's Federalism.

Welfare reform had it's recent biggest push during.......the Clinton Admistration. Clinton was a Democrat. He worked with Congress to pass the reforms. Requiring people to look for work is not racist. It's common sense.Well, this turns this into a purely political thread, and while I have nothing but contempt for the entire response and signature, I have no intent to discuss politics. Continue your attack upon enlightenment without me.
 
Quick poll: How many of you would say everything you've ever done wrong in your life is the fault of your parents?

I get tired of the blame mentality prevalent today. These kids made a choice to act the way they did. To blame it on their parents, or their school, or their culture MAY be legit, but I doubt it.
 
I appreciate your post but you can take your political opinion and stick it. This had nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with a few bad eggs. Keep your politics out of it brother as you don't know what you are talking about and are projecting. I am a grad and have lived in Norman since. This is not a racist community. But perhaps the Greek portion of campus is. Wouldn't know wasn't one while in college and of course know nothing of their current beliefs.

This post was edited on 3/10 6:52 PM by JasonE
 
I remember (5 or 6 yrs ago) when my high school buddy begged me to call into his radio show and chime in on a topic about race relations ........I went on the show and said "When Obama was elected, the gloves came off and people are just showing their true colors" His Co-Host was pissed, lol
 
Originally posted by K2C Sooner:

Originally posted by Raleigh2Miami:
Very interesting thread, gentlemen, very interesting commentary.
Medic, I think he used an extra comma, but don't ask me...............
That's not even a complete sentence. You can use however many commas you want in an incomplete sentence. I think he used them rather sparingly. I can see places for about four more.
 
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Originally posted by JasonE:
I appreciate your post but you can take your political opinion and stick it. This had nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with a few bad eggs. Keep your politics out of it brother as you don't know what you are talking about and are projecting. I am a grad and have lived in Norman since. This is not a racist community. But perhaps the Greek portion of campus is. Wouldn't know wasn't one while in college and of course know nothing of their current beliefs.


This post was edited on 3/10 6:52 PM by JasonE
Two different black OU students interviewed on CNN last night said they were not surprised by the SAE incident and yet knew no one in the SAE house. What does that tell you? Your opinion is your experience, and likely does not reflect the expereince of the black community in Norman (or Lawton, Midland, Houston, etc).

If a child grows up in a home that primarily gets its perspective on the world from one news source, let's say Fox, and every time a talking head on that channel hears or says the word "Obama" that name is spit out with contempt, does that affect who the child becomes? Especially if his/her world is lilly white? There is a lot of rage in this country and Fox does a thorough job of funneling it.
 
sybarite:

I didn't resort to an ad hominem attack to make my points. It's you (and Phaeded) who brought politics into this discussion when none was warranted. The focus should just be on the racist idiots and the penalities against them. They were punished. Good.
 
Phaeded:

It seems you're also guilty of generalization and using 'your experience' to guide your views. Your attack on Fox news is not surprising. Apparently, you have forgotten all the attacks on conservatives from MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc. Not to mention all the major newspapers regularly bash conservatives/Republicans. This was paramount during the Bush years.

Fox News is the only major news organization that does not insult traditional conservatives like the rest of the networks do. You must not watch it much because they have many liberals spouting their views on the network.

It's ludicrous to attempt to equate the racist punks with conservatives. Plus, as I said before, people have legitimate differences with Obama's policies. Opposing Obama is political, not racist. I have known racists and anti-semites. They come from all backgrounds, races, male, female, and from both Parties. In fact, I know African-Americans who don't like Obama. There are more than you think. Are they racist? I think not.

You were making good points in your OP, but then ruined it by injecting politics. It shouldn't be political. It is about punishing the offenders, which has been accomplished, and getting them counseling or phyciatrictric help to redeem back to society, if possible.
 
Originally posted by Jaaa:

Quick poll: How many of you would say everything you've ever done wrong in your life is the fault of your parents?

I get tired of the blame mentality prevalent today. These kids made a choice to act the way they did. To blame it on their parents, or their school, or their culture MAY be legit, but I doubt it.
By human nature, we all are influenced by our conditions around us. Whatever those conditions are. The role/character of the parenting process is one of many, many influences on our lives. It's a big one. With exception of course, IMO it's the single most important influence. Having said this, there are many outside influences that shape and form our lives. Association is the other biggee. Be it family, school, religion or anything else one can think of actually. Media is another huge influence. Media of all types.

I think some of you have made some excellent points for both sides. And while we're over here debating the reason for racism, ISIS has a 12 yr old kid killing an Isreali spy.

Hate is is an evil nasty thing.
 
I will re-enter this thread, not to comment on any part of the thread, but because I just learned something relevant.

The two young men who were expelled were from Dallas. One went to Dallas Jesuit. As I understand, the one that was leading the chant went to Highland Park.

Both of my children went to Highland Park, graduating something like twenty years ago. I went to a football game at Highland Park when they played Lancaster, a predominantly black school (about a third white). The Highland Park crowd posted a banner on the press box, "Cash beats Trash." I was rather surprised that the Highland Park officials let such a banner be posted.

At my son's Senior Assembly, the only black girl in the entire school made a little speech. She said that her family was moving from Highland Park because they didn't want her younger brother to experience the same type of racism that she had experienced at Highland Park. That was a rather courageous stand to take in front of your peers. It identified that Highland Park did foster that type of behavior. Both of my children indicated that there was a fairly definitive racist crowd, and that it had some power parents. The girl happened to be in most of my son's classes since they were in AP and indicated that she was a rather moderate, but very intelligent girl. But, the bulk of the racism was not in the type of student that frequented AP classes.

It is not unlikely that he learned his attitudes at home, perhaps from his parents, but probably also in association with his highschool friends. They were not accustomed to being told what they couldn't do.

Boren finally told them.
 
I was an SAE in the period of 87-89. Yes, we did have our charter pulled for Hazing during that time, but I can honestly say that I had never heard that chant until I saw the video. I am glad Boren acted the way he did. A Brother within the house should have spoken up about not teaching this chant in the first place. They were not acting like the 'True Gentlemen' that the Fraternity is founded on. It is a sad, sad day.
 
Spare me your bleeding heart liberal rhetoric...we all know that ALL frats and sororities are racist...that is the reason they join...its like country clubs.
 
Originally posted by Jaaa:

Quick poll: How many of you would say everything you've ever done wrong in your life is the fault of your parents?

I get tired of the blame mentality prevalent today. These kids made a choice to act the way they did. To blame it on their parents, or their school, or their culture MAY be legit, but I doubt it.
I would say if a kid did something really really wrong, like say go to a school like UT, then in that instance I would say it is on the parents and the kids up bringing. My parents would never let me make a mistake like that and I won't let my kid make a mistake like that.
 
LawtonIke:

Yes, a sad day. The problem with racism is there can be a double standard. Michael Myers, head of the NYC Civil Rights Coalition, is African-American. Ironically, he didn't want the two knuckleheads expelled. He said they had a First Amendment right to say what they wanted even if it was reprehensible. He used an analogy of hardcore black rappers. Many of them are always rapping about "kill the pigs", "kill whitey", "bang the whores", and other bigoted lyrics. However, he said they have a First Amendment right to be stupid, as well. To think of it, instead of getting into trouble by spewing such words, they actually make a lot of money doing so. Incredible.

Now, I believe the two guys got what they deserved, but shouldn't black rappers who engage in reprehensible talk be shunned as well? It doesn't seem that they are held accountable. So, apparently, there is a double standard.
 
As a white male, it is my responsibility to clean my house, not to tell someone else to clean theirs.
 
Re: As A Member Of The Human Race...

Originally posted by sybarite:
As a white male, it is my responsibility to clean my house, not to tell someone else to clean theirs.
It is your responsibility to make sure ALL folks clean their own houses...if not they will just sweep their filth in your doorway...understand?
 
Re: As A Member Of The Human Race...

admin

I think this is the first time I have asked anything like this of a poster. Take out the trash.
 
Re: As A Member Of The Human Race...

Originally posted by sybarite:
admin

I think this is the first time I have asked anything like this of a poster. Take out the trash.
Don't bother yourself or the administrators...I'm gone...take care you apologist halfwit with your apologist head stuck up your ass...you turn on your own people.
 
Re: As A Member Of The Human Race...

I never considered being a frat boy. I never had a positive experience with a fraternity or sorority member while in school. I considered them over privileged yuppy larva with little to contribute to my education. The behavior displayed in the video was no shock to me. What is the purpose of a fraternity?
 
Re: As A Member Of The Human Race...


Originally posted by sybarite:
admin

I think this is the first time I have asked anything like this of a poster. Take out the trash.
Turd has been flushed. Just got on the board to see this moron's ramblings. I'd keep him around to see what else entertaining comes out of his head, but since our board is collectively allergic to free range dumbass, it is best to send him packing so you fine folks don't have to waste your valuable time trying to decipher complete stupidity.
 
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Originally posted by Sooner in KS:

Originally posted by Jaaa:

Quick poll: How many of you would say everything you've ever done wrong in your life is the fault of your parents?

I get tired of the blame mentality prevalent today. These kids made a choice to act the way they did. To blame it on their parents, or their school, or their culture MAY be legit, but I doubt it.
I would say if a kid did something really really wrong, like say go to a school like UT, then in that instance I would say it is on the parents and the kids up bringing. My parents would never let me make a mistake like that and I won't let my kid make a mistake like that.
Well. Hmmmph.
 
Sybarite makes a telling point about the environment these two young men grew up around. I have lived in Texas for approximately 50 years. While it is folly to brand an entire community over the actions of a few, there is no question that North Dallas, specifically the community of Highland Park, is a bubble that does not accurately portray the ethnic diversity of the state, or even for Dallas as a whole.

I attended Catholic grade school in Dallas and had my parents not moved back to Tulsa, I would have likely attended Jesuit H.S.. As it turned out, I attended Cascia Hall, another example of a specific area of a community that could be accurately described as living in a "bubble".

I do not think that these young men's parents actively encouraged racism. What I do think is that they were raised in a "bubble" that breeds entitlement, superiority, and a prejudice towards anything that is considered undesirable. When you put such individuals in a closed environment where alcohol is involved and with the opportunity to impress young women with audacious behavior, bad things are likely to happen. There is an impression of elitism that comes with joining a fraternity and these freshmen are no doubt heady with their new perceived status and such thinking can lead to incredibly immature behavior.

Nothing I have said here is any different than when I attended H.S. or joined my college fraternity (FIJI). What is different is social media. I will leave the politics to others although I also tend to agree with Sybarite's overview of racism sense WWII.
 
Originally posted by Jaaa:

Quick poll: How many of you would say everything you've ever done wrong in your life is the fault of your parents?

I get tired of the blame mentality prevalent today. These kids made a choice to act the way they did. To blame it on their parents, or their school, or their culture MAY be legit, but I doubt it.








I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with the term, "kitchen table racism." It is a term I came across while researching a cultural competence presentation some years ago for my job. What really stood out to me was that you think racism, and you think ethnic superiority or supremacy. This term however, didn't derive from that ideal. It is an aspect of hatred nurtured through generational fear and is a form of racism that is present within every ethnic group. Every single one. It challenged this notion that somehow only caucasians could be racist.



It is an aspect of bigotry, one would find in minority groups who have faced some sort of social prejudice or oppression. How many people, no matter your race, have ever been cautioned about the Blacks or the Whites or the Hispanics or the Asians? The point of it being, that while there has been a unified effort to stomp out systematic racism. There is still the aspect of racism nurtured at the dinner table that is more difficult to counter. How do you teach someone who has heard at their dinner table for the past 18 years phrases such as, "watch out for the whites," to not fear white people?



This is an opinion and it may be out there to some, so disagree if you must. When discussing race in American society we've become more preoccupied with being politically correct, rather than being considerately honest. The discussion is polluted with our political opinions and ideals. During the past Presidential election, a local tv station held a forum to discuss issues which affected South Florida and how it would influence the voters of this constituency. As part of the discussion they spoke about gentrification and other issues within the African American community. Of the African Americans they asked for opinions on very polarizing political issues, many of them had the exact same answers that a white conservative would have. Yet, when asked if they would vote for a Republican, the majority of them said no.



I know what you might be thinking, they voted for Obama because he was black. No. It's not that cut and dry because their answers were consistent on every single level of sanctioned elections. They wouldn't vote for a conservative governor, congressman, mayor, state senate representative; you get the point. The idea is that conservatives cannot possibly work in the best interest of minorities. I'm an independent, but much of my views tend to lean towards liberalism. Maybe I am naive, but that shocked the heck out of me. Then I remembered the phrase, "kitchen table racism." Many of us have been exposed to this seed of fear and all of us have our prejudices. I know, I do.



So how do we all combat these prejudice inclinations? Listen, I am open to all suggestions and opinions. I have trained myself to identify that quality inside and to repeal it the best I can. Sometimes it doesn't work, but does that make me racist? No, it makes me human. And that's another problem about discussing race, you say something the other side doesn't like and you hear cries of racism. That ends all discussions because there is nowhere to progress when you've accused someone of being racist. Especially when they're not racist.


This post was edited on 3/12 10:09 AM by PalmBeachCane
 
Originally posted by Jaaa:

Quick poll: How many of you would say everything you've ever done wrong in your life is the fault of your parents? I get tired of the blame mentality prevalent today. These kids made a choice to act the way they did. To blame it on their parents, or their school, or their culture MAY be legit, but I doubt it.
I screwed up my kids in many ways, but I certainly take pride in the fact that I have a pretty high level of confidence that neither of my kids will condone, let alone participate in such an activity. It's the parents/guardians that lay the foundation for their kid's character and moral compass.......it ain't just blind luck that kids go out an act the way they do.
 
Originally posted by soonerdave:

Originally posted by Jaaa:

Quick poll: How many of you would say everything you've ever done wrong in your life is the fault of your parents? I get tired of the blame mentality prevalent today. These kids made a choice to act the way they did. To blame it on their parents, or their school, or their culture MAY be legit, but I doubt it.
I screwed up my kids in many ways, but I certainly take pride in the fact that I have a pretty high level of confidence that neither of my kids will condone, let alone participate in such an activity. It's the parents/guardians that lay the foundation for their kid's character and moral compass.......it ain't just blind luck that kids go out an act the way they do.
There is no one more important in the life of a child than his mother and father. Period.

I'll ask again, soonerdave - have you ever done anything in your life of which you are not proud? If yes, was it your parents fault?
 
Originally posted by LawtonIke:
I was an SAE in the period of 87-89. Yes, we did have our charter pulled for Hazing during that time, but I can honestly say that I had never heard that chant until I saw the video. I am glad Boren acted the way he did. A Brother within the house should have spoken up about not teaching this chant in the first place. They were not acting like the 'True Gentlemen' that the Fraternity is founded on. It is a sad, sad day.
Hanta Yo!!!! Lawton Ike (the school) sucks!!!!!
wink.r191677.gif
 
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