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God bless Barbara Pierce Bush dead at 92

Of course.

Trump wants to renegotiate the deal, which is wise IMHO. Of course Iran wants no part of that because of what has become known to folks since the details were made public. We got duped. Nobody wants to admit it and Iran has the upper hand.

It was a bad deal for the sake of having a deal. The worst part is that they have access to tons of money they previously didn't have. We opened the door for faster modernization of their program by giving them the cash they needed to do it and it's now legitimized by the world community. Iran should be heavily penalized for their missile testing but they've got a loophole in the deal for that as well.

It's going to be scary when the deal expires. I don't think the future will be complimentary of what Iran will be capable of.

Iran is very dangerous. They have ties that lead to violence in Iraq, Yeman and incidents in the Middle East and Syria. The best outcome for Trump is to renegotiate the Iran deal and for the European Union and the individual European Countries and China and Russia to join him.

Unfortunately the chances of this are small.

It was a very bad deal for the rest of the world.and Iran got themselves a great deal for themselves and they still remain a dangerous threat.
Like you said Medic, we did get duped.
 
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DISCLAIMER:

Oh, Dear, My Good Buddies...When I annointed 'meselef' as the Ranking Senior Member of this board, it had nothing to do with a Favorite Poster, or the 'Most Liked'...so no need to cue Carly Simon's 'You're So Vain'! :p

It had to do with 'I am pretty sure that I am the Freaking OLDEST Member on the board, D**nit!' Sad, but true, so therefore, I feel entitled to comment on how Seriously Senior SASSY Sooners view our sitting POTUS...

I love this post.
 
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Hillary has become as politically relevant as Sarah Palin. Both are nothing more than an answer to a political trivia question. I think Hillary realizes she is political poison and should never run for public office again. Like Palin, she will continue to get quoted from time to time, but as far as having any kind of impact on a local, state or federal level, their time has come and gone.

Only because Trump kicked her ass. Something tells me the person you discard in this post is the same person you cast a vote for 18 months ago.
 
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Iran is very dangerous. They have ties that lead to violence in Iraq, Yeman and incidents in the Middle East and Syria. The best outcome for Trump is to renegotiate the Iran deal and for the European Union and the individual European Countries and China and Russia to join him.

Unfortunately the chances of this are small.

It was a very bad deal for the rest of the world.and Iran got themselves a great deal for themselves and they still remain a dangerous threat.
Like you said Medic, we did get duped.
I agree completely. It is the government of Iran that is dangerous, not the Iranian people. The people are largely westernized and would kick out the Islamic government if they could. That's the bad part of dealing with Iran. We punish the people for their government's actions.

True story... Iran was helping the US in our war on terror against al Qaeda in Afghanistan until the mouth breathing Bush 2.0 declared them part of the axis of evil. I'm pretty convinced Bush single handedly screwed up what could have been a mutually beneficial relationship fighting Sunni extremism.
 
The issue I see regarding our government, specifically the Democratic party is that it is moving so far to the left that it is barely recognizable any longer. Blue Dog & moderate Dems can hardly be found these days as they are being muscled & muzzled out. Having said this, the Republican party is not recognizable any longer as well. The Reagan days are over, long gone. Conservatives in the party are also being muscled out thus moving closer to the center than ever.

I have a feeling that if the left comes into power in either of the houses, they will do nothing but push for impeachment. I personally think that Trump is being railroaded right now. Taking down his attorney/client privilege is/was a huge thing that I've never witnessed before. Imagine being sued and talking to your attorney about the case and everything you've discussed was wiretapped. To me, this is completely wrong, unfair, unethical,and just not American. But since it's Trump, most do not care. He's being set up and railroaded out of office that the American people duly elected him to serve.
 
...and the same can be said for the right. Hopefully, the roughly 40% of us in the independent middle will finally win the day.
I suspect if you were truly in the middle you wouldn't have made such a doting post about Obama.

The people in the middle saw how far left the new brand of Democrat led by Obama was taking this country and thus voted for the person who most represented us. Trump is a lot of unsavory things, but governing for the middle isn't one of them.

I don't care how many pornstars he's banged or how childish he looks on Twitter as long as he's moving forward with a sensible agenda. I'm done with the Bush and Obama days of optics over sound policy and party over people. And there's a growing number of people who are watching the actual results just like me.

The hysterics of the posts on here lead me to believe it might help some of you if you quit ingesting the media and partisan talking points and look at things with your own brain.
 
I suspect if you were truly in the middle you wouldn't have made such a doting post about Obama.

The people in the middle saw how far left the new brand of Democrat led by Obama was taking this country and thus voted for the person who most represented us. Trump is a lot of unsavory things, but governing for the middle isn't one of them.

I don't care how many pornstars he's banged or how childish he looks on Twitter as long as he's moving forward with a sensible agenda. I'm done with the Bush and Obama days of optics over sound policy and party over people. And there's a growing number of people who are watching the actual results just like me.

The hysterics of the posts on here lead me to believe it might help some of you if you quit ingesting the media and partisan talking points and look at things with your own brain.
Amen, Bro'! To Steal a Line from Art Linkletter, 'I Wish I'D Said That'!
 
...and the same can be said for the right. Hopefully, the roughly 40% of us in the independent middle will finally win the day.

Your post above just goes to show all how the Dem party has moved to the far left if you actually believe you belong to the middle w/ independent thinkers.
 
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I wholeheartedly agree with you, CT.

I agree. There has never been a tremendous amount of love for Government. Even the founding fathers were scared of what the government might become and therefore seperated the powers accordingly.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
- Benjamin Franklin
 
It encourages me to see that many of our younger generation of professionals are true centrist thinkers and see through all the fluff to the heart of the data & get the entire picture, no matter where they live either in good old middle Merica or in the land of perpetual tent cities (not in Nancy's yard of course)
YES We Are, and YES We Do! :cool:
 
I never knew lower taxes, de-nuclearization of North Korea, China agreeing to fairer trading, annihilating ISIS, lowest unemployment in decades, highest stock numbers ever, & record GPD growth were considered a disastrous Presidency. Let's be real here, swap Trump's name w/ Obama & the media would be ranking him as the nation's best ever President and you Never Trumpers would be donating to the Obama Mt.Rushmore Foundation.

It is what it is. Some of you hate, bitch, nag, complain, about Liberalism, Conservatism, hurt feelings of election smack, porn stars, fake news stories, witch hunts of Russian collusion, his wife, his kids, blah, blah, blah. The rest of America is back to work, w/ decent 401Ks, better trade deals, a safer world w/ N. Korea, and ISIS back to cave dwelling. Trump is Making America Great Again.
 
Nothwithstanding the usual snarky and patronizing posts from several in this thread or the implied racism (Aunt Jemima is/was a pancake mix, hence the "flipflop" reference) I am truly an independent and who I have voted for pretty much bears that out. The definition of a political independent is someone who votes on issues and not party; who votes relative to the current political circumstances, not as what my grandfather called "yellow dog democrats." As someone who has spent his entire 46 year career in the business world I put forth the singular point that when judging any presidency, its all about the metrics. Let's take a look at Obama's numbers: job creation> +11,641,000; unemployment> down 4.8%; job openings> + 103 %; medium household income> +5.3 %; real weekly earnings> +4.1 %; home prices> + 20%; poverty rate> -.5 points; corporate profits> +57%; S&P 500> +166%; uninsured> -15.2%; U.S.- Mexico border crossings> -35%; unauthorized immigrant population> -6%; U.S. coal production> -38%; wind and solar power> +369%; CO2 emissions> -11%; U.S. crude oil production> +77%; new car mpg> +20%; violent crime rate> -16%.
There are some negatives as there always are with any presidency; i.e., food stamp recipients> +33%; federal debt held by the public+128%; health insurance premiums> +43%; hand gun production> +192%. A couple of neutral metrics depending on your viewpoint: Guantanamo prisoners: -83%; U.S. military casualties> Iraq-283, Afganistan-1751.
No president is perfect. As an independent I voted for W twice as governor and once as president but when he blew out the budget and started an unnecessary war, that was it for me. There are roughly 40% of us who vote for the individual based on current circumstances as well as qualifications. History says that most presidents even if they run from the right or left, tack to the center once elected. They may be either slightly left or right of center, but that's where they usually end up.

By the way, the metrics I've stated herein come from a variety of sources including The Bureau of Labor Statistics, the U.S. Census Bureau, National Association of Realtors, U.S. Dept. of Agriculture, U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis, S&P Dow Jones Indices, U.S. Treasury, Office of Management and Budget, Congressional Budget Office, Center for Disease Control and Prevention, Kaiser Family Foundation, U.S. Border Patrol, U.S. Energy Information Administration, U.S. Dept, of Commerce, F.B.I., BATF, National Shooting Sports Foundation.

Every president will ultimately be judged on his record. Barack Obama's will stand up well as it is judged by history.

Finally, yes I voted for Hillary. It was a binary choice. My first choice was John Kasich but given the choice on the ballot, it was an easy choice for me.
 
Nothwithstanding the usual snarky and patronizing posts from several in this thread or the implied racism (Aunt Jemima is/was a pancake mix, hence the "flipflop" reference) I am truly an independent and who I have voted for pretty much bears that out. The definition of a political independent is someone who votes on issues and not party; who votes relative to the current political circumstances, not as what my grandfather called "yellow dog democrats." As someone who has spent his entire 46 year career in the business world I put forth the singular point that when judging any presidency, its all about the metrics. Let's take a look at Obama's numbers: job creation> +11,641,000; unemployment> down 4.8%; job openings> + 103 %; medium household income> +5.3 %; real weekly earnings> +4.1 %; home prices> + 20%; poverty rate> -.5 points; corporate profits> +57%; S&P 500> +166%; uninsured> -15.2%; U.S.- Mexico border crossings> -35%; unauthorized immigrant population> -6%; U.S. coal production> -38%; wind and solar power> +369%; CO2 emissions> -11%; U.S. crude oil production> +77%; new car mpg> +20%; violent crime rate> -16%.
There are some negatives as there always are with any presidency; i.e., food stamp recipients> +33%; federal debt held by the public+128%; health insurance premiums> +43%; hand gun production> +192%. A couple of neutral metrics depending on your viewpoint: Guantanamo prisoners: -83%; U.S. military casualties> Iraq-283, Afganistan-1751.
No president is perfect. As an independent I voted for W twice as governor and once as president but when he blew out the budget and started an unnecessary war, that was it for me. There are roughly 40% of us who vote for the individual based on current circumstances as well as qualifications. History says that most presidents even if they run from the right or left, tack to the center once elected. They may be either slightly left or right of center, but that's where they usually end up.

By the way, the metrics I've stated herein come from a variety of sources including The Bureau of Labor Statistics, the U.S. Census Bureau, National Association of Realtors, U.S. Dept. of Agriculture, U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis, S&P Dow Jones Indices, U.S. Treasury, Office of Management and Budget, Congressional Budget Office, Center for Disease Control and Prevention, Kaiser Family Foundation, U.S. Border Patrol, U.S. Energy Information Administration, U.S. Dept, of Commerce, F.B.I., BATF, National Shooting Sports Foundation.

Every president will ultimately be judged on his record. Barack Obama's will stand up well as it is judged by history.

Finally, yes I voted for Hillary. It was a binary choice. My first choice was John Kasich but given the choice on the ballot, it was an easy choice for me.

Yep being called a racist sometimes isn't all whatit really is. I mean goodness! I was called a racist because I didn't vote for Obama. Can you imagine?

BTW, metrics suck in an argument. The 'dazzle them with brilliance' ends up being 'Baffle them with bullshit'. The fact that people are discussing low unemployment & Trump means that they believe Trump is responsible. Further, the tax breaks that Pelosi's group voted against did not help. Sigh.

Oh, despite Kasich being handed his ass, Ohio voted for Trump. LOL
 
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There are a lot bears being poked in this thread. It’s unlikely a winner will arise. Nevertheless, I have a bit different take of certain issues because there have been some really good points made on each side that I haven’t considered. Not enough to change how I feel “much” but still I’m feeling a little more tolerable toward our POTUS. Obviously a number of very astute posters on the board for each side. Good thread.
 
unemployment> down 4.8%
median household income> +5.3 %

That median household income increase is 0.65% growth per year while average inflation was 1.75%. Total inflation during his presidency ends up at 14.9%.

14.9 - 4.8 = 10.1% MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD REAL EARNINGS LOSS

All of that while decreasing unemployment. Well great. I say we keep on handing out worthless jobs to make people feel better about themselves while continuing to make the median household poorer and poorer.

You gotta understand the metrics that you're reading.
 
I predict we'll be seeing a strong economy for some time now. We're likely in the beginning stages of the next enlightenment period since the Internet revolution.
This technological leap is going to be the data age. The favorite saying used is 90% of the data in existence has been collected in the last 2 years, and that's a scale that is moving to keep the statement legit.
There's a mad rush of tools and collaborations done to clean, analyze and interpret data, and it's going to change everything around us.

Schools are all clamoring to offer Data Scientist degrees now, and it's not just a fad.
 
The Dems, CNN, MSNBC and CBS are wallowing in their own bile demonizing Trump, and this has nothing to do with my own feelings about him.
Sacred Cow Hillary with all her stench lost the election....because of who SHE is....not because of white men, married women to white men, states other than California, Illinois, New York and the six New England states.
I'm so tired of her relentless flailing. She deserved what she got many times over.
 
China agreeing to fairer trading, .

China has not at this time agreed to "fairer trading." Neither has Trump. Trump did send some people in his cabinet like the US treasury secretary Manuchen (spelling) to China this week to negotiate trade and possible tariffs but as of now we do not know the outcomes of these talks.

The biggest risk to out economy and the world economies are trade wars with high tarriffs put on goods we import to America and on our goods we export to other countries like for example it will kill American farmers who export if tariffs are put on their goods like for example those farmers who export corn and soybeans to Mexico which we export to them in big quantities. The corn and soybean farmers will be hurt badly if they have to pay a tariff to Mexico to be able to sell their corn and soybeans there. We sell oil overseas we sell beef overseas and many American industries who export to other countries like Harley Davidson will be hurt badly by tariffs and trade wars.. Trump said this week he has not decided yet whether to add steel and aluminum tariffs to Mexico and Canada and Europe and they will do the same back to us putting their tariffs on what we export to them if Trump decides on Tarriffs.

The biggest threat to our economy are tariffs and trade wars. It will counterbalance the good done by the GOP tax cuts if trade wars happen. Then also.the American consumer will end up paying higher prices on many things if trade wars with us and the world and tariffs happen on both imports and exports.

Nobody wins these trade wars. Everybody loses.
 
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China has not at this time agreed to "fairer trading." Neither has Trump. Trump did send some people in his cabinet like the US treasury secretary Manuchen (spelling) to China this week to negotiate trade and possible tariffs but as of now we do not know the outcomes of these talks.

The biggest risk to out economy and the world economies are trade wars with high tarriffs put on goods we import to America and on our goods we export to other countries like for example it will kill American farmers who export if tariffs are put on their goods like for example those farmers who export corn and soybeans to Mexico which we export to them in big quantities. The corn and soybean farmers will be hurt badly if they have to pay a tariff to Mexico to be able to sell their corn and soybeans there. We sell oil overseas we sell beef overseas and many American industries who export to other countries like Harley Davidson will be hurt badly by tariffs and trade wars.. Trump said this week he has not decided yet whether to add steel and aluminum tariffs to Mexico and Canada and Europe and they will do the same back to us putting their tariffs on what we export to them if Trump decides on Tarriffs.

The biggest threat to our economy are tariffs and trade wars. It will counterbalance the good done by the GOP tax cuts if trade wars happen. Then also.the American consumer will end up paying higher prices on many things if trade wars with us and the world and tariffs happen on both imports and exports.

Nobody wins these trade wars. Everybody loses.

David, He's not trying to start a trade war. He is demanding fair trade, however. And with any type of negotiation, you never start with the position in which you wish to end up; that leaves one no room to negotiate. If you really look at what he's done, he's started with outrageous demands and then backed off to a position where he gets what he wants and what we need. As you know, I spent three years running a large, U.S, based manufacturing concern in China. Some of our competition were Chinese owned companies with tremendous financial support from the Chinese government. Those companies were hit with large tariffs under the Obama administration because they were, in fact, dumping their products into the United States and elsewhere. Same can be said for other industries. These are the type of trade practices that our President is going to stop. We should be grateful.
 
David, He's not trying to start a trade war. He is demanding fair trade, however. And with any type of negotiation, you never start with the position in which you wish to end up; that leaves one no room to negotiate. If you really look at what he's done, he's started with outrageous demands and then backed off to a position where he gets what he wants and what we need. As you know, I spent three years running a large, U.S, based manufacturing concern in China. Some of our competition were Chinese owned companies with tremendous financial support from the Chinese government. Those companies were hit with large tariffs under the Obama administration because they were, in fact, dumping their products into the United States and elsewhere. Same can be said for other industries. These are the type of trade practices that our President is going to stop. We should be grateful.
Thank you V for blowing up his fake news. :)
 
David, He's not trying to start a trade war. He is demanding fair trade, however. And with any type of negotiation, you never start with the position in which you wish to end up; that leaves one no room to negotiate. If you really look at what he's done, he's started with outrageous demands and then backed off to a position where he gets what he wants and what we need. As you know, I spent three years running a large, U.S, based manufacturing concern in China. Some of our competition were Chinese owned companies with tremendous financial support from the Chinese government. Those companies were hit with large tariffs under the Obama administration because they were, in fact, dumping their products into the United States and elsewhere. Same can be said for other industries. These are the type of trade practices that our President is going to stop. We should be grateful.

You made some very good points Veritas.

We will see how this eventually plays out but if it eventually has extended tariffs on both sides, which creates a trade war, many American companies and many farmers will be hurt financially very badly.

BTW I heard on Fox this morning that nothing happened with our delegation who went to China this week to talk trade.and they now have returned home. .
,
 
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