Urban Meyer

[PtLavacaSooner]

Name some of the multiple national champions from the 2000's, and let's see what programs actually recognize them. Like in 2011, I think 1 or 2 systems recognizes LSU and Okie State as national champions. Have you ever heard either program make mention of that at all?? Especially the Pokes. If those other systems carried ANY weight whatsoever then Poke fans would be yelling it endlessly. So it's not participation trophies. Programs realize those are irrelevant and treat them as such.
Like OU...I think OU has something like 20+ total national titles if you count the years they were selected by one of these irrelevant systems. OU only recognizes the 7 that actually matter.

OU has 17 total. tOSU has 16. Alabama has 20.

OU recognizes 7, all AP #1 years.

Ohio State recognizes 8, only 5 are from the AP.

Alabama recognizes 16, only 10 are from the AP.

There is one way to solve it all. A true playoff. Nobody gave TCU a #1 rank for 2014, but they got screwed in the final CFP rankings. Could they have beaten Ohio State? We will never know. What about aOm? While they don't recognize the 2011 NC some awarded, Alabama got one from a rematch with LSU who beat them in the regular season... Tell me about the season meaning nothing, please??? Could aOm beat LSU that year? I think so, and I'm not an aggie fan or a Big XII or else guy...

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

While Miami doesn't recognize the 2000 NC they were awarded, they all cried about it on the boards. USC recognizes the 2003 and 2004 NC's, even though the NCAA says they have to vacate the win against OU, and the BCS winner in 2003 was LSU. Should Auburn be awarded the 2004 NC? Or OU, who USC trounced 55-19?

Nebraska has 4 AP and 4 Coaches poll NC's. They aren't in the same seasons though... So do they have 4, 5, or 6? Should you just take them when you can get them?

texASS claims 4, the AP says 3...

Nobody gave Ohio State one in 2012, yet they were the ONLY 12-0 team... Why do they claim NC's from the National Football Foundation some years, but not others? Did Woody Hayes decide that?

 

[Soonerborn59]

I think so many fans are afraid of change and just accept the old system to what we currently have now.

The problem is that once the bowl games became a factor in the final rankings things started to change. It wasnt until the 1968 season that the AP conducted its final poll after Bowl games. It took until 1998 to institute a new sustem we knew as the BCS that allowed computer rankings to become a part of the process in selecting a 2 team playoff. As we know that system had many flaws and almost in any given year there was more than 2 teams deserving of a shot.

now we have a very controversal committee process for 4 teams. Some love it while there are those of us who consider it a BS process. Imagine the outcry in 2007 had KU got the selection for only 1 loss and not even playing for a CC. Yet so many are defending TOSU selection over Penn St because they had 1 loss vs. 2 for the Lions. Its obvious 1 loss vs. 2 for LSU didnt matter worth crap in 07 but CC did.

Im old school but its time to change this system and go 2 a 8 team playoff and use the 4 weeks between games to have those games played. In this day and time just imagine the excitement a true playoff would bring with no 3-4 week gaps between the last game played and its Bowl game.

 

[BillyRay]

OU has 17 total. tOSU has 16. Alabama has 20.

OU recognizes 7, all AP #1 years.

Ohio State recognizes 8, only 5 are from the AP.

Alabama recognizes 16, only 10 are from the AP.

There is one way to solve it all. A true playoff. Nobody gave TCU a #1 rank for 2014, but they got screwed in the final CFP rankings. Could they have beaten Ohio State? We will never know. What about aOm? While they don't recognize the 2011 NC some awarded, Alabama got one from a rematch with LSU who beat them in the regular season... Tell me about the season meaning nothing, please??? Could aOm beat LSU that year? I think so, and I'm not an aggie fan or a Big XII or else guy...

Alabama got a rematch in 2011 because they were prolly the most dominant team in the country, and had the lone loss to LSU. Bad example for trying to say the regular season means nothing. That's not even remotely close to what I'm talking about in letting 3 and 4 loss teams into a playoff. Ohio State in 2012 was ineligible for the B1G championship or playing in a bowl game. That's why they didn't win a title that year.
And when you talk about non-AP titles, the VAST majority are from 30+ years ago. That system was a frikin disaster as the champion was just voted on after the bowl games. I don't think we disagree that a better playoff is what's needed. We simply disagree on the number of teams that should get in.

 

[Soonerborn59]

No one can change the history of the past but had playoffs been in place in the beginning I wonder what the NC count would be for many teams.

Many times a team would eliminate themselves with a late loss while getting passed over for another 1 loss team who just happened to lose earlier in the season than that team that lost late.

Hell of a system in naming a team as the best in CFB wasnt it?

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

Alabama got a rematch in 2011 because they were prolly the most dominant team in the country, and had the lone loss to LSU. Bad example for trying to say the regular season means nothing.

So the undefeated LSU team that beat Alabama in the regular season didn't need to face off against aOm or Stanford? Seriously? How about Alabama? Could they have beaten the aOm aggies that year? I don't think they could.

The regular season got taken down to meaning nothing for aOm. Just like it did for Kansas and Missouri in 2007. And Ohio State in 2012.

Nebraska got beat by Miami for the National Championship in 2001. Colorado won the Big XII. Nebraska didn't. Did Oregon get screwed? Or maybe texASS did by having to play Colorado in the Big XII Championship game, since they had already beat them... That gave them two losses and sent them to the Holiday Bowl...

2002... Georgia, Iowa anyone? Iowa went 11-1 (8-0) before losing to USC in the Orange... Undefeated in the B1G, just like Ohio State... 11 teams and you only play 8... No championship game... Georgia beat all but Florida... I'm sure the 2002 Big East was tough though, that's why Miami got in...

I can do this for any season. 2008 is a great one. OU, texASS, and tortilla throwers... 4 team playoff? Boise State, Utah, Florida, Alabama, USC, Penn State, Ohio State, Ball State, Georgia, Oregon.... Need more? Who's in?

 

[Soonerborn59]

So the undefeated LSU team that beat Alabama in the regular season didn't need to face off against aOm or Stanford? Seriously? How about Alabama? Could they have beaten the aOm aggies that year? I don't think they could.

The regular season got taken down to meaning nothing for aOm. Just like it did for Kansas and Missouri in 2007. And Ohio State in 2012.

Nebraska got beat by Miami for the National Championship in 2001. Colorado won the Big XII. Nebraska didn't. Did Oregon get screwed? Or maybe texASS did by having to play Colorado in the Big XII Championship game, since they had already beat them... That gave them two losses and sent them to the Holiday Bowl...

2002... Georgia, Iowa anyone? Iowa went 11-1 (8-0) before losing to USC in the Orange... Undefeated in the B1G, just like Ohio State... 11 teams and you only play 8... No championship game... Georgia beat all but Florida... I'm sure the 2002 Big East was tough though, that's why Miami got in...

I can do this for any season. 2008 is a great one. OU, texASS, and tortilla throwers... 4 team playoff? Boise State, Utah, Florida, Alabama, USC, Penn State, Ohio State, Ball State, Georgia, Oregon.... Need more? Who's in?

Solid illustration PTL

 

[BillyRay]

So the undefeated LSU team that beat Alabama in the regular season didn't need to face off against aOm or Stanford? Seriously? How about Alabama? Could they have beaten the aOm aggies that year? I don't think they could.

The regular season got taken down to meaning nothing for aOm. Just like it did for Kansas and Missouri in 2007. And Ohio State in 2012.

Nebraska got beat by Miami for the National Championship in 2001. Colorado won the Big XII. Nebraska didn't. Did Oregon get screwed? Or maybe texASS did by having to play Colorado in the Big XII Championship game, since they had already beat them... That gave them two losses and sent them to the Holiday Bowl...

2002... Georgia, Iowa anyone? Iowa went 11-1 (8-0) before losing to USC in the Orange... Undefeated in the B1G, just like Ohio State... 11 teams and you only play 8... No championship game... Georgia beat all but Florida... I'm sure the 2002 Big East was tough though, that's why Miami got in...

I can do this for any season. 2008 is a great one. OU, texASS, and tortilla throwers... 4 team playoff? Boise State, Utah, Florida, Alabama, USC, Penn State, Ohio State, Ball State, Georgia, Oregon.... Need more? Who's in?

You can come up with stuff like this over and over. I really don't care. Has nothing to do with my reasoning against a 16 team playoff and it including 3 and 4 loss teams. Plenty of 1 and 2 loss teams have gotten screwed over the years. What do that have anything to do with me not wanting 3 and 4 loss teams from being included in playing for a national title??

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

You can come up with stuff like this over and over. I really don't care. Has nothing to do with my reasoning against a 16 team playoff and it including 3 and 4 loss teams. Plenty of 1 and 2 loss teams have gotten screwed over the years. What do that have anything to do with me not wanting 3 and 4 loss teams from being included in playing for a national title??

Billy, to answer your question, I'm not sure. In fact, you haven't stated why you don't want a 3 or 4 loss team to enter into a playoff game. Is it that you're afraid that they might get hot and win it all? I mean it could happen, but it's doubtful it would happen on a sustained basis. What is it exactly that bothers you about this?

 

[BillyRay]

Billy, to answer your question, I'm not sure. In fact, you haven't stated why you don't want a 3 or 4 loss team to enter into a playoff game. Is it that you're afraid that they might get hot and win it all? I mean it could happen, but it's doubtful it would happen on a sustained basis. What is it exactly that bothers you about this?

I've already said my reasoning is I don't want it to diminish the importance of the regular season. Like I said earlier, if the playoff were 16 teams this year, then #14 Auburn would be in with an 8-4 record. That's garbage if you can lose one-third of your seasons games and still get a shot at national title. Even 3 losses you are losing one-quarter of your seasons games.
Look at OUs game with Ohio State this year. OU having already lost to Houston, that game had HUGE importance for OU. If the idea you can lose 3-4 games a year, win your conference and still get in, then most likely OU fans don't care as much if they win or lose cuz they can make it up in conference play.
I don't think any of us in this thread are happy with the current 4-team playoff. But we just don't agree on how many teams is should be expanded to. I think 8 is about right without it getting too watered down.
And if they move to a "true playoff" with all 128 teams, then the regular season means nothing. Nada. Zilch. May as well just start the playoff when the season usually starts in September and make the entire college football season one huge playoffs.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

I've already said my reasoning is I don't want it to diminish the importance of the regular season. Like I said earlier, if the playoff were 16 teams this year, then #14 Auburn would be in with an 8-4 record. That's garbage if you can lose one-third of your seasons games and still get a shot at national title. Even 3 losses you are losing one-quarter of your seasons games.

That is a pretty big assumption. Auburn only ranks that high in the circle jerk poll. The AP? 17. Coaches? 17. If you have automatic qualifiers for 10 conferences...

And if you did it with just 8... Would you accept 8 with the rankings this year? My eye test says that 4 B1G CHUMPS is 3 too many. Yet 3 loss Wisconsin beat 13-0 WMU... would they have made it? Which one? The one ranked 8th or the undefeated one?

 

[BillyRay]

That is a pretty big assumption. Auburn only ranks that high in the circle jerk poll. The AP? 17. Coaches? 17. If you have automatic qualifiers for 10 conferences...

And if you did it with just 8... Would you accept 8 with the rankings this year? My eye test says that 4 B1G CHUMPS is 3 too many. Yet 3 loss Wisconsin beat 13-0 WMU... would they have made it? Which one? The one ranked 85th or the undefeated one?

You'll have the same problems with inviting 16 teams. What if 4-loss team makes it in. What would make them any more deserving than all the other 4-loss teams?? Same with 3 loss teams. You have Nebraska with 3 losses down at the bottom of the Top 25. Wouldn't they have a legit complaint??
You will always have complaints. So why continue to water down a playoff for the sake of trying to appease as many complaints as possible?? I know earlier you asked me if I was going to try and convince you about participation trophies. What you are advocating goes further towards that mentality than what I am.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

That is a pretty big assumption. Auburn only ranks that high in the circle jerk poll. The AP? 17. Coaches? 17. If you have automatic qualifiers for 10 conferences...

And if you did it with just 8... Would you accept 8 with the rankings this year? My eye test says that 4 B1G CHUMPS is 3 too many. Yet 3 loss Wisconsin beat 13-0 WMU... would they have made it? Which one? The one ranked 85th or the undefeated one?

I tend to agree that a 16 ten playoff bracket w/ today's standards wouldn't cut it. For a bracket this size it would require all conferences to have the same set of qualifiers, Bye Week for conference champs, etc. It could be structured to where the regular season games have consequences. There are too many good tournaments structured so it works. A CFB Championship tournament could be structured the same way.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

You'll have the same problems with inviting 16 teams. What if 4-loss team makes it in. What would make them any more deserving than all the other 4-loss teams?? Same with 3 loss teams. You have Nebraska with 3 losses down at the bottom of the Top 25. Wouldn't they have a legit complaint??
You will always have complaints. So why continue to water down a playoff for the sake of trying to appease as many complaints as possible?? I know earlier you asked me if I was going to try and convince you about participation trophies. What you are advocating goes further towards that mentality than what I am.

You have to think differently Billy. Current rankings wouldn't work. I think this where it gets confusing. For example, the 64 team basketball tourney, rankings aren't placed (that count) until the field is set. First Seed, 2nd Seed and so forth. A football tourney would need to be structured completely diferent than we currently have.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

You will always have complaints. So why continue to water down a playoff for the sake of trying to appease as many complaints as possible?? I know earlier you asked me if I was going to try and convince you about participation trophies. What you are advocating goes further towards that mentality than what I am.

No. What I'm advocating is a legit playoff. Are you trying to tell me that 4 teams out of 128 is a legit playoff?

 

[BillyRay]

You have to think differently Billy. Current rankings wouldn't work. I think this where it gets confusing. For example, the 64 team basketball tourney, rankings aren't placed (that count) until the field is set. First Seed, 2nd Seed and so forth. A football tourney would need to be structured completely diferent than we currently have.

I agree it would take an entirely different system to pick teams. But what system would you promote? Who or what would set the "field" in a college football playoff?

 

[BillyRay]

No. What I'm advocating is a legit playoff. Are you trying to tell me that 4 teams out of 128 is a legit playoff?

Where at any point in this thread did I advocate the current 4 team playoff is fine?? I've posted several times I do not like the current cap of 4 teams. I like the idea of expanding it to 8 and see. Right now I think 16 teams would water it down too much. 128 teams in Div-1 and the VAST majority have no place in playing for a national title.
And yes..I think the same way about the 64 teams March Madness bracket. Too many teams get in that are nothing but cannon fodder for teams to beat up on. And even the 64 team March Madness you get schools that complain they had a legit reason to get in and didn't make it.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

The NFL has it down pretty good. Divisions within the conferences play each other every year and they play teams out of their division based on the previous year to match their record. You can't move forward to the playoffs until you prove yourself throughout the season, thus making conference play extremely important. Smarter peeps than myself can figure it out, but there has to be a 'will' to get it done. That will is not here yet. But I do see it developing. We have 4 teams now. A few years ago we had none. I guess it's baby steps.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

I agree it would take an entirely different system to pick teams. But what system would you promote? Who or what would set the "field" in a college football playoff?

Who sets thef field in the NCAA tourney? We as sports fans accept it because it offers up multiple teams that play one another to determine who's the best within each region. Starting w/ a sweet 16 in football would be... simply put... bad ass.

 

[BillyRay]

The NFL has it down pretty good. Divisions within the conferences play each other every year and they play teams out of their division based on the previous year to match their record. You can't move forward to the playoffs until you prove yourself throughout the season, thus making conference play extremely important. Smarter peeps than myself can figure it out, but there has to be a 'will' to get it done. That will is not here yet. But I do see it developing. We have 4 teams now. A few years ago we had none. I guess it's baby steps.

The NFL has it down pretty well because of the structure of their divisions, and the NFL doesn't have 128 teams. For college football to do something similar, they need to reduce the number of conferences. I think college football needs to bite the bullet and make super-conferences a reality. And structure each conference the same as the NFL with 2 divisions, each division winner plays each other, the winner goes to the playoff. So much of current college football's issues is so many teams with no structure.
But to comment again on the current 4 team playoff, I don't remember hearing anyone, even in the media, proclaim it being the solution to everything. The consensus I kept hearing was it's a step in the right direction. Like you said WNAS, baby steps.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

The NFL has it down pretty well because of the structure of their divisions, and the NFL doesn't have 128 teams. For college football to do something similar, they need to reduce the number of conferences. I think college football needs to bite the bullet and make super-conferences a reality. And structure each conference the same as the NFL with 2 divisions, each division winner plays each other, the winner goes to the playoff. So much of current college football's issues is so many teams with no structure.
But to comment again on the current 4 team playoff, I don't remember hearing anyone, even in the media, proclaim it being the solution to everything. The consensus I kept hearing was it's a step in the right direction. Like you said WNAS, baby steps.

Well, so far, the current 4 team playoff has worked to the degree that it has determined the top two teams to play for a Natty. In the very short history, this has occurred which was the purpose of the team playoff to start with. But I do think that a larger of field of teams would energize CFB.

 

[runningback43]

Why can't the NCAA come up with some kind of power point system and use it to set the field? I'm not sure how the high school football playoffs are set up in Oklahoma or Texas, but in Nebraska we use a power point system. Works pretty well for us, and it keeps a committee away from determining which teams will be in the playoffs.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

Why can't the NCAA come up with some kind of power point system and use it to set the field? I'm not sure how the high school football playoffs are set up in Oklahoma or Texas, but in Nebraska we use a power point system. Works pretty well for us, and it keeps a committee away from determining which teams will be in the playoffs.

Because the NCAA has nothing to do with the FBS playoff now, nor did they with bowls or the BCS... They could sanction a true playoff like they do in every other division, but they don't for some reason... $$$

 

[runningback43]

Then they need to take control. I would think the money could potentially be bigger with a playoff. TV deal would be huge.

 

[Plainosooner]

The best two teams are playing each other for the NC, and that's the way it should be. If we play four rounds, then it's more about who gets hurt. Ohio State got embarrassed because of one injury. And I think we found out that while Penn State is a very good team, that they didn't deserve to be in the finals.

Their soph quarterback's dumb mistake at the end cost them the Rose Bowl. Two horrible passes back to back.

We have guys on this site supporting players who quit on their teams to protect their pro careers by skipping games at the end of the season. But you want to add two brutally physical games to the schedule of those who play for some long playoff. This isn't basketball. At this time of year, players are already really beat up.

College football is way different from the NFL. Another 45 to 50 snaps a game. It ought to be the best teams playing, not the teams that got lucky to not get key guys hurt.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

The best two teams are playing each other for the NC, and that's the way it should be. If we play four rounds, then it's more about who gets hurt. Ohio State got embarrassed because of one injury. And I think we found out that while Penn State is a very good team, that they didn't deserve to be in the finals.

Their soph quarterback's dumb mistake at the end cost them the Rose Bowl. Two horrible passes back to back.

We have guys on this site supporting players who quit on their teams to protect their pro careers by skipping games at the end of the season. But you want to add two brutally physical games to the schedule of those who play for some long playoff. This isn't basketball. At this time of year, players are already really beat up.

College football is way different from the NFL. Another 45 to 50 snaps a game. It ought to be the best teams playing, not the teams that got lucky to not get key guys hurt.

No different than Youngstown State playing their 16th game for the title against James Madison, playing their 15th game... YSU is 12-3 and not supposed to be there... Yet they are... UMHB won D-III for the first time ever... They weren't supposed to be there...

You could get hurt crossing the street or going to Pickleman's too... When did FBS players become such wusses?

 

[CTOkie]

Penn State's loss is on its coach by the play calling.

 

[Plainosooner]

No different than Youngstown State playing their 16th game for the title against James Madison, playing their 15th game... YSU is 12-3 and not supposed to be there... Yet they are... UMHB won D-III for the first time ever... They weren't supposed to be there...

You could get hurt crossing the street or going to Pickleman's too... When did FBS players become such wusses?

You must be kidding. The physical differences between FCS and FBS are substantial. And the thing is, once again, Bob is saying almost exactly what I'm saying. You may think you know more about it that I do, but you darn sure don't know more about it than he does.

It's not close to the same thing.

 

[DubaiSooner]

I don't believe Bob has been shut out, though Nebraska came close once. 10-3 when Landry was a pup, the year Sam got hurt.

I think you are correct. I was at an OU watch party in Phoenix this season and a walking OU stats book told us that Texas A&M in 1998 was last time OU was shutout. He said Blake was shutout several times.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

And the thing is, once again, Bob is saying almost exactly what I'm saying. You may think you know more about it that I do, but you darn sure don't know more about it than he does.

Like two years ago?

Didn't your buddy perma ban himself from embarrassment after Bob fired your boy?

Got a quote from Bob? I'd like to see it...

This magical, "I think Bob believes this way, therefore he must" is a dream of yours that got exposed two years ago by many on here. Give us a link, a video, something, to convince me that FBS players are bigger pussies than their FCS counterparts.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

The best two teams are playing each other for the NC, and that's the way it should be. If we play four rounds, then it's more about who gets hurt. Ohio State got embarrassed because of one injury. And I think we found out that while Penn State is a very good team, that they didn't deserve to be in the finals.

That part is funny. If NC State hits a FG, is Clemson one of the best two teams? What about the Louisville game, Auburn, FSU, VT, or, get this...

TROY.

This Troy. Right here. The one that lost to Arkansas State 35-3. The one that lost to Georgia Southern.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/game?gameId=400869847

Six of their games are one play away from being a loss, and you and the talking heads think they are absolutely one of the best two teams? Yet you defend Ohio State's poor performance on one OL getting injured? Do smoke the same crap you are selling here?

 

[BillyRay]

Well...I don't think Penn State losing means they didn't deserve to be in the finals with the way Ohio State lost. If anything, Penn State couldn't have done any worse. But I also had no issue with Ohio State getting the nod over Penn State.

 

[SoonerMikee05]

With 4 super conferences, we can have an 8 team playoff without adding any more games. The CCGs are the first round of the playoffs.

You must be kidding. The physical differences between FCS and FBS are substantial. And the thing is, once again, Bob is saying almost exactly what I'm saying. You may think you know more about it that I do, but you darn sure don't know more about it than he does.

It's not close to the same thing.

 

[runningback43]

If Division II and FCS was not as physical as FBS, then there would not be a single player from those levels in the NFL.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

With 4 super conferences, we can have an 8 team playoff without adding any more games. The CCGs are the first round of the playoffs.

I suggested as much during the season in a few different formats, that had 8, 12, or 16 teams involved. Either take 64 teams in 4 conferences like you suggest, or all 128 in 8 conferences. The regular season can go back to 11 games. Everyone plays 7 division games. Division winners play for Conference Championship.

Don't win your division, you can't be in the playoffs. Period. Results on the field determine the destiny of teams, not polls or committee members with an agenda...

 

[6thDanTKD]

He pitched a shut out against Urban Meyer on a big time stage/game. That in of itself is pretty salty stuff. I just don't understand him staying at Clemson long. He has a pretty impressive resume.

He has it made at Clemson. He is having a 54mil dollar players facilities built, I huge home on lake Keowee, and lives in an absolutely beautiful area. I don't see job security EVER being a problem. Why would he leave? He's in the National Championships for the second time in two years! I sure wouldn't leave, would you? Sometimes when everything is clicking its kind of foolish to pick up and leave. I honestly think that he wouldn't even leave for his old school Alabama. I could be wrong though.

Congrats on Jack Slapping Auburn, I was pulling for you guys, I'm not a big fan on the GREAT SEC.

 

[PtLavacaSooner]

He has it made at Clemson. He is having a 54mil dollar players facilities built, I huge home on lake Keowee, and lives in an absolutely beautiful area. I don't see job security EVER being a problem. Why would he leave? He's in the National Championships for the second time in two years! I sure wouldn't leave, would you? Sometimes when everything is clicking its kind of foolish to pick up and leave. I honestly think that he wouldn't even leave for his old school Alabama. I could be wrong though.

Congrats on Jack Slapping Auburn, I was pulling for you guys, I'm not a big fan on the GREAT SEC.

He was talking about Brent Venables, not Swinney...

 

[sabbott1958]

No one wants to play OU now.

 

[soonerfastnloud]

If you don't win your division they should not be in period.

 

[sooner_mike]

Urban Meyer has never been shut out as a head coach. This is his 194th game as a head coach.

This has to be the worst offense I ever see. Heck Indiana's offense is better than tosu Indiana would have put 14 on Clemson. See how that works Urban?