In the End

[WhyNotaSooner]

Originally posted by Plainosooner:

Originally posted by WhyNotaSooner:

Originally posted by Plainosooner:
I don't think Mike has made a play since the 80s. Players make plays or they don't .

I've heard all the complaints about the cushion given to receivers in the second half against Baylor. Problem was, our DB's couldn't cover their receivers. You can only double one or maybe two unless you don't care to have a chance against the run.

Mike was brilliant when you liked the results. He hasn't changed. The game has some, but mostly players make plays or they don't.

So yes, WN, you did exactly turn on him. And because you are so certain that OU's players should always be better than the other guys' then it must be the coach or coaches. Funny thing, there was a huge furrowing of brows at Montgomery's departure, yet his front was what could have made a defensive difference and didn't. I'm not dumping on Monty. Players make plays. His didn't nearly often enough.

But because people here seem obsessed with recruiting more than anything else. he's viewed as the best coach on the staff. I wish him luck in his new pursuit. But Mike is still a solid, proven DC. Monty wasn't.

Believe as you will. I don't give a damn. You're a hardcore pom pom waver that has no reality in life that I can see or read.
But there is one thing we both have in common, we both can't wait until Mike starts winning again. Both unfortunately for different reasons. You so you can't point a finger and say, "I told you so." Me, so I can point a finger and say. "OU #1".

Say what?

I mostly agree with the guys who actually know what they're doing, and you consistently claim to know more than they do.

And I'm the one out of touch with reality and full of arrogance?

My, my, my.

Your use of the word "entitled" as it related to your opinion in one of your other diatribes, was very accurate.

Players make plays or they don't. But in your view, when we lose, it's always the coaches' fault. Mostly, because you're entitled to never ever have to deal with "your" team, losing. I'm not sure which world you live in, but reality has very little to do with it.

Cool. Then agree that Bob thought Huepel was bad enough to fire. It just tokk you awhile. Most saw it earlier. Much like we see Mike Stoops. I'm a Sooner fan. I have expectations of winning! When it doesn't happen I openly discuss it as to why. You on the other hand wish to discuss nothing but the fault of the referees, and then defend the 121st ranked passing defensive coach of OU.

 

[barkingwater2000]

Its obvious to most that the only reason Mike is still here is because his brother is the head coach. There is absolutely no other reason why Mike, who has had more than one bad season since he returned, should still be on the coaching staff as the DC.

 

[bcsoonerfan]

Originally posted by barkingwater2000:
Its obvious to most that the only reason Mike is still here is because his brother is the head coach. There is absolutely no other reason why Mike, who has had more than one bad season since he returned, should still be on the coaching staff as the DC.

Actually, someone (Plaino most likely) pointed out that with the coaching changes on offense, it was not unreasonable to think that an overhaul on the defense should wait, though it's not as if Bob didn't make any changes on the defense. Montgomery was promoted to co DC, Mike was moved to linebackers, BJW called it quits and we got a new DB coach.

But Josh is gone now so the mob needs a new witch to burn!

Side note: It's the same people who wanted Venables gone and were hip hip hooraying Mike's return that wanted to crucify Josh, and now Mike. Expiation! We must have a blood sacrifice.

Mike's defenses every year since his return have started off really well and then fell apart down the stretch. Why? I have no idea. But it's not as if his return has been complete disaster from the beginning.

 

[barkingwater2000]

Could be because we start playing better teams towards the end of the season. Whatever the case, any other DC would be gone....plain and simple.

 

[BillyRay]

Originally posted by WhyNotaSooner:

Originally posted by Plainosooner:

Say what?

I mostly agree with the guys who actually know what they're doing, and you consistently claim to know more than they do.

And I'm the one out of touch with reality and full of arrogance?

My, my, my.

Your use of the word "entitled" as it related to your opinion in one of your other diatribes, was very accurate.

Players make plays or they don't. But in your view, when we lose, it's always the coaches' fault. Mostly, because you're entitled to never ever have to deal with "your" team, losing. I'm not sure which world you live in, but reality has very little to do with it.

Cool. Then agree that Bob thought Huepel was bad enough to fire. It just tokk you awhile. Most saw it earlier. Much like we see Mike Stoops. I'm a Sooner fan. I have expectations of winning! When it doesn't happen I openly discuss it as to why. You on the other hand wish to discuss nothing but the fault of the referees, and then defend the 121st ranked passing defensive coach of OU.

WNAS, what we are witnessing how isn't much different that the meltdown after the A&M loss in the Cotton Bowl. Many on here said something had to change and Bob needed to make some tough decisions about his staff and maybe look for some new blood into his program. Guys like Plaino claimed we are ignorant, we don't know what we are talking about, and we claim to know more than the coaches. Well guess what....Bob canned several coaches that year. So many of us were right.

Fast forward to the present day...it's a repeat. Some on here could see the obvious that changes needed to be made, regardless of what Plaino and a couple of others said. So now that Bob has once again fired several off his staff, many of us were right during the season, just like a few years ago and a few posters on here simply can't handle it that they were wrong.

But Plaino, if OUs losses can be blamed on players making plays or not, then why is Bob firing coaches? Btw Plaino, this is also a staff that you claimed during the season is the "best staff in the country." If that's true, then how could Bob justify firing coaches from his staff??

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Originally posted by bcsoonerfan:

Originally posted by barkingwater2000:
Its obvious to most that the only reason Mike is still here is because his brother is the head coach. There is absolutely no other reason why Mike, who has had more than one bad season since he returned, should still be on the coaching staff as the DC.

Actually, someone (Plaino most likely) pointed out that with the coaching changes on offense, it was not unreasonable to think that an overhaul on the defense should wait, though it's not as if Bob didn't make any changes on the defense. Montgomery was promoted to co DC, Mike was moved to linebackers, BJW called it quits and we got a new DB coach.

But Josh is gone now so the mob needs a new witch to burn!

Side note: It's the same people who wanted Venables gone and were hip hip hooraying Mike's return that wanted to crucify Josh, and now Mike. Expiation! We must have a blood sacrifice.

Mike's defenses every year since his return have started off really well and then fell apart down the stretch. Why? I have no idea. But it's not as if his return has been complete disaster from the beginning.

That would have been me. I've proclaimed for months on nd that Stoops would not fire his brother. I don't see it happening. I see them taking their show on the road together before he fires his brother.

 

[CTOkie]

I think it's stupid to say that "the mob" (those board members who expressed disappointment and concern about a 5-loss season which included two blowout losses, 3 home losses and another virtual no-show in the bowl game) had something to do with the staff changes.
I give credit solely to Coach Stoops for knowing changes were needed.....and more are apparently on the way.
Whatever is said in the social media is, by Stoops' own admission, irrelevant to how he coaches this team. Why then get so ridiculously defensive about how fans feel about a coach on the staff ? If some don't like the body of work put forth by a given coach, who gives a shit ? Why come after critics with condescending putdowns in an effort to legitimize a childish belief that coaches and players are immune from criticism....as if it's somehow "noble" and "good" to deify these high priced coaches?
There's no witch hunt here....at least as far as Coach Stoops is concerned....and that's really all that matters, isn't it ?

 

[bcsoonerfan]

Originally posted by barkingwater2000:
Could be because we start playing better teams towards the end of the season. Whatever the case, any other DC would be gone....plain and simple.

The first part I agree with. It only makes sense that stiffer competition is going to press your defense.

But the second part is only speculation. Nothing "plain and simple" about it. We've really only had Mike and Brent in the Stoops era as defensive coordinators and Bob took a lot of heat on this board for "not firing his buddy" Brent when Brent's units struggled or were dealt season ending blowouts.

People were chomping at the bit for Brent's departure and Mike's return in 2012 and after Clemson spanked our bottoms, those same people are saying Brent is a hero and Mike is a goat.

It's a matter of having our cake and eating it our convenience too.

Personally, (this is all speculation) but I think Mike's ego and confidence took a blow one faithful November night in Morgantown, and still has visions of our defensive backs (really talented guys) getting burned in record setting fashion. And now anytime we get a small taste of that (bad tackle, blown coverage for big gain or TD), Mike goes into "prevent mode" and loses his aggressive nature of play calling for fear of getting beat on the big play. Now he's trying his hand at a defense that's not his own (3-4) and we're grasping at straws. The confusion flows from the top down.

 

[barkingwater2000]

Mike's unwillingness to be aggressive is probably my biggest head scratcher since his return. We don't blitz nearly as much and we love going into some type of quasi prevent mode throughout the entire game. Does he not have confidence in his players or is he simply trying to come up with some grand master plan to stop the high powered offenses. Maybe he is just confused and grasping at straws. Whatever the case, this is his final year to get something figured out or he will be gone one way or another.

 

[bcsoonerfan]

Originally posted by CTOkie:
I think it's stupid to say that "the mob" (those board members who expressed disappointment and concern about a 5-loss season which included two blowout losses, 3 home losses and another virtual no-show in the bowl game) had something to do with the staff changes.
I give credit solely to Coach Stoops for knowing changes were needed.....and more are apparently on the way.
Whatever is said in the social media is, by Stoops' own admission, irrelevant to how he coaches this team. Why then get so ridiculously defensive about how fans feel about a coach on the staff ? If some don't like the body of work put forth by a given coach, who gives a shit ? Why come after critics with condescending putdowns in an effort to legitimize a childish belief that coaches and players are immune from criticism....as if it's somehow "noble" and "good" to deify these high priced coaches?
There's no witch hunt here....at least as far as Coach Stoops is concerned....and that's really all that matters, isn't it ?

You're digging way to deep into what I'm saying. I fully agree that Bob made the changes he felt that he needed to make. There could have been pressure from higher ups, but no credit goes to the media, social media, and damn sure not the posters on here (that is the mob I'm referencing).

And you're sorely missing my point that, with Josh gone, now Mike is the sole bearer of Scoop poster rage. I don't think I could count the number of times myself or a select few others pointed out after a loss the defenses poor play while the mob here were still on their warpath against Josh.

 

[bcsoonerfan]

Originally posted by barkingwater2000:
Mike's unwillingness to be aggressive is probably my biggest head scratcher since his return. We don't blitz nearly as much and we love going into some type of quasi prevent mode throughout the entire game. Does he not have confidence in his players or is he simply trying to come up with some grand master plan to stop the high powered offenses. Maybe he is just confused and grasping at straws. Whatever the case, this is his final year to get something figured out or he will be gone one way or another.

I agree with every word. I think one more year to get things headed in the right direction and show improvement is fair, or else its the way of the dodo bird.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Originally posted by bcsoonerfan:

Originally posted by CTOkie:
I think it's stupid to say that "the mob" (those board members who expressed disappointment and concern about a 5-loss season which included two blowout losses, 3 home losses and another virtual no-show in the bowl game) had something to do with the staff changes.
I give credit solely to Coach Stoops for knowing changes were needed.....and more are apparently on the way.
Whatever is said in the social media is, by Stoops' own admission, irrelevant to how he coaches this team. Why then get so ridiculously defensive about how fans feel about a coach on the staff ? If some don't like the body of work put forth by a given coach, who gives a shit ? Why come after critics with condescending putdowns in an effort to legitimize a childish belief that coaches and players are immune from criticism....as if it's somehow "noble" and "good" to deify these high priced coaches?
There's no witch hunt here....at least as far as Coach Stoops is concerned....and that's really all that matters, isn't it ?

You're digging way to deep into what I'm saying. I fully agree that Bob made the changes he felt that he needed to make. There could have been pressure from higher ups, but no credit goes to the media, social media, and damn sure not the posters on here (that is the mob I'm referencing).

And you're sorely missing my point that, with Josh gone, now Mike is the sole bearer of Scoop poster rage. I don't think I could count the number of times myself or a select few others pointed out after a loss the defenses poor play while the mob here were still on their warpath against Josh.

It's pretty telling that you think the MS sole bearer of Scoop poster rage. If I'm reading this correctly, what you're saying (and I believe too) is that both were deem inadequate last season enough to catch flak from not only from the scoop, but the majority of concerned Sooner fans. He's the last man standing besides Gundy and Gundy has done more than MS. If Mike thought last year was bad, if he drops 5 games this year, he'll want to step aside.

 

[Soonersincefitty]

Well, I've come to accept the dreaded axiom that unless and until we win #8, there will always be a coach or two, arbitrarily chosen mind you, that will be the whipping boy du jour.

Actually, this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

It tells me, in an unfortunate, ugly way that our expectations are so lofty that anything less than the conference championship annually, and winning the Natty every 7.3 years on average is totally unacceptable.

Hopefully the cause and effect will keep this staff on their very well paid toes and deliver the trophies!

 

[bcsoonerfan]

Originally posted by WhyNotaSooner:

Originally posted by bcsoonerfan:

Originally posted by CTOkie:
I think it's stupid to say that "the mob" (those board members who expressed disappointment and concern about a 5-loss season which included two blowout losses, 3 home losses and another virtual no-show in the bowl game) had something to do with the staff changes.
I give credit solely to Coach Stoops for knowing changes were needed.....and more are apparently on the way.
Whatever is said in the social media is, by Stoops' own admission, irrelevant to how he coaches this team. Why then get so ridiculously defensive about how fans feel about a coach on the staff ? If some don't like the body of work put forth by a given coach, who gives a shit ? Why come after critics with condescending putdowns in an effort to legitimize a childish belief that coaches and players are immune from criticism....as if it's somehow "noble" and "good" to deify these high priced coaches?
There's no witch hunt here....at least as far as Coach Stoops is concerned....and that's really all that matters, isn't it ?

You're digging way to deep into what I'm saying. I fully agree that Bob made the changes he felt that he needed to make. There could have been pressure from higher ups, but no credit goes to the media, social media, and damn sure not the posters on here (that is the mob I'm referencing).

And you're sorely missing my point that, with Josh gone, now Mike is the sole bearer of Scoop poster rage. I don't think I could count the number of times myself or a select few others pointed out after a loss the defenses poor play while the mob here were still on their warpath against Josh.

It's pretty telling that you think the MS sole bearer of Scoop poster rage. If I'm reading this correctly, what you're saying (and I believe too) is that both were deem inadequate last season enough to catch flak from not only from the scoop, but the majority of concerned Sooner fans. He's the last man standing besides Gundy and Gundy has done more than MS. If Mike thought last year was bad, if he drops 5 games this year, he'll want to step aside.

WNAS, I'm saying that at times there was ineptitude on both offense and defense, and at times the ineptitude was inexcusable. However, after each loss this season, the overwhelming backlash on this board was aimed at Josh Heupel, even if in said loss Heupel's offense outperformed Mike's defense. There were a few waves of angst splashing in Mike's face throughout the season, but as soon as Josh was pushed out Mike got hit with a tsunami.

Like fitty basically put it: Most of this board apparently needs a whipping boy to vent their frustrations. Josh was that guy for the last few years and he's gone now, so now the mob has turned their torches and pitchforks on Mike (Frankenmike?). It's fine as Mike's performance deserves criticism and he certainly has his work cut out for him, but Mike's performance is no more worthy of criticism now then before Josh got canned.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

This is where I disagree with you and Fitty. This board doesn't need a whipping boy, this board needs a team that doesn't get whipped. You appear to take issue with the root of the issue and fight a never ending, fruitless battle to protect those that are in charge of getting whipped. I'll never understand it other than some can't handle losing because they can't handle the truth. So they then concern themselves on blasting posters instead of Coaches.

Stupidity runamuck.

 

[Soonersincefitty]

Owee!

Direct contact, uppercut!

Is my nose bleeding or what?

 

[barkingwater2000]

I can only speak for myself, but I've said many times that the offense outperformed the defense this past season. Now, I believe you saw criticism of Mike, after Josh was fired, because a lot of people felt like Mike should have also been shown the door. Thus, the backlash

 

[Oklabama]

Barkingwater......it's so simple. Kudos!

 

[CTOkie]

Originally posted by bcsoonerfan:

Originally posted by CTOkie:
I think it's stupid to say that "the mob" (those board members who expressed disappointment and concern about a 5-loss season which included two blowout losses, 3 home losses and another virtual no-show in the bowl game) had something to do with the staff changes.
I give credit solely to Coach Stoops for knowing changes were needed.....and more are apparently on the way.
Whatever is said in the social media is, by Stoops' own admission, irrelevant to how he coaches this team. Why then get so ridiculously defensive about how fans feel about a coach on the staff ? If some don't like the body of work put forth by a given coach, who gives a shit ? Why come after critics with condescending putdowns in an effort to legitimize a childish belief that coaches and players are immune from criticism....as if it's somehow "noble" and "good" to deify these high priced coaches?
There's no witch hunt here....at least as far as Coach Stoops is concerned....and that's really all that matters, isn't it ?

You're digging way to deep into what I'm saying. I fully agree that Bob made the changes he felt that he needed to make. There could have been pressure from higher ups, but no credit goes to the media, social media, and damn sure not the posters on here (that is the mob I'm referencing).

And you're sorely missing my point that, with Josh gone, now Mike is the sole bearer of Scoop poster rage. I don't think I could count the number of times myself or a select few others pointed out after a loss the defenses poor play while the mob here were still on their warpath against Josh.

You are missing MY point, and it has nothing to do with why coaching changes were made or how fairly or unfairly criticisms were levied at any coach on the staff.
My point is how I view the way you and Plaino go out of your way to pompously refer to yourselves as having a monopoly on knowledge of this team at the expense of berating others. You both spew the same BS about how others are part of "the mob", "the peanut gallery" and how criticisms of players and coaches are "poster rage", "attacks", etc. Then Plaino will issue such remarks from his pulpit to one of his disciples as "keeping fighting the good fight, the noble fight".....so much for having level headed adult discussions about a football team. Such discussions are becoming fewer and farther between here thanks in part to you self proclaimed gurus.

 

[Plainosooner]

And yet we discover from interviews with Montgomery that it happened pretty much exactly as those pompous know it all types said it did.

And those speculating about the worst happening, were as usual, just making stuff up.

All opinions are not equal.

 

[bcsoonerfan]

Now that the truth has come out and you two are clearly going to come up with lame excuses to avoid eating much deserved crow, ill say this:

Suggesting or supporting unsubstantiated rumors because you don't like or are mad at an individual (Mike Stoops) is the equivalent of high school drama. And I'm the arrogant and pompous one because I choose to use evidence and logic to support my opinions?

 

[CTOkie]

Originally posted by Plainosooner:
And yet we discover from interviews with Montgomery that it happened pretty much exactly as those pompous know it all types said it did.

And those speculating about the worst happening, were as usual, just making stuff up.

All opinions are not equal.

Get over yourself.
No one made anything up. It was all speculation....no concrete theories. Legitimate questions were raised at the time of Montgomery's decision and it had nothing to do with who was right or who was wrong....or that stuff was being made up.
No one here wants negative things happening within this football program, but sometimes these things happen....and when they do, who are you to proclaim "all opinions are not equal" or what can or cannot be discussed here ?

 

[BillyRay]

Originally posted by Plainosooner:
And yet we discover from interviews with Montgomery that it happened pretty much exactly as those pompous know it all types said it did.

And those speculating about the worst happening, were as usual, just making stuff up.

All opinions are not equal.

This post is coming from the guy who proclaimed OUs staff as "the best staff in the country" during the season....

So the underlined portion is dully noted.





This post was edited on 2/14 5:04 PM by BillyRay