I wish...

[hOUston...]

Since things are a little slow on this board let’s find out if this will start some conversation. Name a player that negatively changed OU football. Name a player that would have positively changed OU football.

Many of you are much more knowledgeable than me. You can expand on my comments or add your own to the “wish we didn’t or “wish we did” list.

Could have done without the following:
Kerry Jackson – team probation with national championship talent.
Charles Thompson – the end of the line for the King.

I believe we came in 2nd for the 2 listed below:
Turner Gill – almost led NU to 2 National Championships.
Cam Newton – carried Auburn to the National Championship.

 

[coeSooner81]

Rhett Bomar

 

[CTOkie]

Since things are a little slow on this board let’s find out if this will start some conversation. Name a player that negatively changed OU football. Name a player that would have positively changed OU football.

Many of you are much more knowledgeable than me. You can expand on my comments or add your own to the “wish we didn’t or “wish we did” list.

Could have done without the following:
Kerry Jackson – team probation with national championship talent.
Charles Thompson – the end of the line for the King.

I believe we came in 2nd for the 2 listed below:
Turner Gill – almost led NU to 2 National Championships.
Cam Newton – carried Auburn to the National Championship.

Kerry Jackson wasn't the problem. Coach Bill Michael was as he had knowledge of Kerry's high school administrators altering his transcript from Galveston Ball HS.
1960's, Joe Don Looney hitting an assistant coach after OU loss to Texas. Team was never the same.
1970's,
1980's, Marcus Dupree who got a lot of bad advise.
Then there are Bernard Hall (rape), Zarak Peters, Jerry Parks (shooting Peters), Glenn Bell (rape), Nigel Clay (rape), Charles Thompson. 7 scholarships forfeited followed and the worst part of it for me, was OU earning the "rogue program" collar. That probation poisoned the decade of the 1990's until Stoops came in 1999.
2000's, Bomar (bogus job at car dealership), McGowan, Bridges (alleged involvement in a robbery).

OU came in second for Earl Campbell in 1974. That one hurts me to this day, but I still regard Earl as my favorite running back.
Also thought Eric Dickerson was coming to OU, but SMU had deeper pockets.

 

[Plainosooner]

You're dead wrong about Bill Michael. I was assigned to him for 5 semesters. He was nothing like I thought he was, before I got to know him. He shared the OL duties with Don Boyce before they did a restructing of the staff early 70's. Once he became the only OU OL coach, we ended up having the best offensive line in Big 8 history.

It's true that Bill was the primary recruiter for Kerry Jackson. But if you believe that he made the unilateral decision to recruit Kerry Jackson, knowing he didn't have all the qualifications to qualify, that ridiculous. First of all, an assistant principal Galveston Ball High School knew what Kerry needed academically, and when Jackson fell short, changed the his high school transcript to make him eligible. This was the last year, before national standards went into place.

It was my last semester as a football manger assigned to Michael, when the stuff hit the fan in the spring . We'd recruited 7 freshmen quarterbacks the year after Kerry and equally highly ranked Scott Hill. All came to OU to find who could fill Mildren's shoes. We'd just graduated senior qb Dave Robertson, who'd replaced three year starter Jack Mildren a year earlier. Kerry was a freshman the first time since just after WWII, that freshmen were eligible to play varsity football.

Fifty years ago last spring, in 1973. Kerry was first on the depth chart, but that day, he wasn't at practice, and neither was Bill Michael. And all kinds or rumor were swarming. I'm the quizable type. The best explanation I heard from multiple players, was that the NCAA investigators. were foaming at the mouth to get OU. They were certain that OU was paying players, but they weren't able to prove anything. That, despite that every player in OU dorm parking lot, except two, were driving a really nice car. All their parents weren't rich.

But when the transcript change was found, they threw the book at OU, for a misdemeanor violation, they assigned a hefty two year probation. Michael took the fall for the staff. I even talked to his daughter about it, after Bill died seven years ago. If Bill knew, and the info on that is mixed, it's not a decision he made. He took it for the team, to keep higher ups from taking the big hit. This was three or four months after Barry Switzer changed positions, from OC to head coach. When Bill took responsibility, and OU agreed to a two year probation, the rest of the heat was taken away. But higher ups knew, if anybody did. I guarantee you, that if the Ball leadership, wanting desperately to have there terrific black high school quarterback go to OU and make a name for himself, they let somebody higher than Bill Michael know about it. I've always believed that if that was the case, that the big deal people at OU made sure to the university was insulated as much as possible. And Bill Michael sacrificed himself, for the good of OU.

 

[Plainosooner]

BTW, for me the most positive impact a player had at OU, was Jack Mildren. After Bud retired, the OU fortunes faded quickly under Gomer Jones. Even though we beat Texas and Nebraska in 1966, we still only went 6-4. Three years later, after contending for a national title in '67, we went 6-4 again despite having the Heisman Trophy winner.
The recruitment of Mildren changed that. In the days before there was much focus in media on recruiting, Mildren had a feature on his recruitment in Sports Illustrated. His class, and the subsequent class, who were freshmen the same year I was, were the backbone of OU's second dynasty. We lost the GOTC in 1971, but Mildren was brilliant in the loss, engineering the greatest rushing offensense in college football history. We broke the national rushing record for yards per game by about 50 yards per game. The greatness of that team, was why the brilliant class of 1972 happened. Their second, third and fourth year at OU, we had one loss and one tie, combined. And two nattys. But that doesn't happen without Jack.

I believe the biggest negative, that I'll get a lot of flak for, was Brian Bosworth's alter ego, The Boz.made parents very leary of sending their sons to Oklahoma. And our image as a renegade school, lasted until Bob Stoops changed everything. That's why I love Stoops.

Colorado became great, and Nebraska became great, because of OU reputation. And the leadership higher than the OU football program, became a mess, trying to scale back that image. And as nice a man as he became, Charles Thompson was 1A negative.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

BTW, for me the most positive impact a player had at OU, was Jack Mildren. After Bud retired, the OU fortunes faded quickly under Gomer Jones. Even though we beat Texas and Nebraska in 1966, we still only went 6-4. Three years later, after contending for a national title in '67, we went 6-4 again despite having the Heisman Trophy winner.
The recruitment of Mildren changed that. In the days before there was much focus in media on recruiting, Mildren had a feature on his recruitment in Sports Illustrated. His class, and the subsequent class, who were freshmen the same year I was, were the backbone of OU's second dynasty. We lost the GOTC in 1971, but Mildren was brilliant in the loss, engineering the greatest rushing offensense in college football history. We broke the national rushing record for yards per game by about 50 yards per game. The greatness of that team, was why the brilliant class of 1972 happened. Their second, third and fourth year at OU, we had one loss and one tie, combined. And two nattys. But that doesn't happen without Jack.

I believe the biggest negative, that I'll get a lot of flak for, was Brian Bosworth's alter ego, The Boz.made parents very leary of sending their sons to Oklahoma. And our image as a renegade school, lasted until Bob Stoops changed everything. That's why I love Stoops.

Colorado became great, and Nebraska became great, because of OU reputation. And the leadership higher than the OU football program, became a mess, trying to scale back that image. And as nice a man as he became, Charles Thompson was 1A negative.

Appreciate this Plaino. 👍

 

[CTOkie]

You're dead wrong about Bill Michael. I was assigned to him for 5 semesters. He was nothing like I thought he was, before I got to know him. He shared the OL duties with Don Boyce before they did a restructing of the staff early 70's. Once he became the only OU OL coach, we ended up having the best offensive line in Big 8 history.

It's true that Bill was the primary recruiter for Kerry Jackson. But if you believe that he made the unilateral decision to recruit Kerry Jackson, knowing he didn't have all the qualifications to qualify, that ridiculous. First of all, an assistant principal Galveston Ball High School knew what Kerry needed academically, and when Jackson fell short, changed the his high school transcript to make him eligible. This was the last year, before national standards went into place.

It was my last semester as a football manger assigned to Michael, when the stuff hit the fan in the spring . We'd recruited 7 freshmen quarterbacks the year after Kerry and equally highly ranked Scott Hill. All came to OU to find who could fill Mildren's shoes. We'd just graduated senior qb Dave Robertson, who'd replaced three year starter Jack Mildren a year earlier. Kerry was a freshman the first time since just after WWII, that freshmen were eligible to play varsity football.

Fifty years ago last spring, in 1973. Kerry was first on the depth chart, but that day, he wasn't at practice, and neither was Bill Michael. And all kinds or rumor were swarming. I'm the quizable type. The best explanation I heard from multiple players, was that the NCAA investigators. were foaming at the mouth to get OU. They were certain that OU was paying players, but they weren't able to prove anything. That, despite that every player in OU dorm parking lot, except two, were driving a really nice car. All their parents weren't rich.

But when the transcript change was found, they threw the book at OU, for a misdemeanor violation, they assigned a hefty two year probation. Michael took the fall for the staff. I even talked to his daughter about it, after Bill died seven years ago. If Bill knew, and the info on that is mixed, it's not a decision he made. He took it for the team, to keep higher ups from taking the big hit. This was three or four months after Barry Switzer changed positions, from OC to head coach. When Bill took responsibility, and OU agreed to a two year probation, the rest of the heat was taken away. But higher ups knew, if anybody did. I guarantee you, that if the Ball leadership, wanting desperately to have there terrific black high school quarterback go to OU and make a name for himself, they let somebody higher than Bill Michael know about it. I've always believed that if that was the case, that the big deal people at OU made sure to the university was insulated as much as possible. And Bill Michael sacrificed himself, for the good of OU.

Coach Michael admitted knowing of the tampering of Jackson's transcripts and Switzer said he was the only assistant involved in the incident.
My post before dealt with Kerry Jackson's recruitment being more about the adults around him that steered him in the wrong direction, primarily the administration at Galveston Ball HS. Though Michael was not directly involved initially, he apparently put himself into a position for being a scapegoat in this incident. An incident that kept OU's two greatest teams off television and bowl participation in 1973-74.

 

[K2C Sooner]

Some great answers and I always enjoy Plaino and CT's posts.

I just want to add one name to the positive..

 

[Plainosooner]

Amen that. Kalsu was special.

 

[CTOkie]

Some great answers and I always enjoy Plaino and CT's posts.

I just want to add one name to the positive..

Great post.
I’ve seen his name on The Wall in Washington DC.
Here’s another name: Prentice Gautt, OU’s first black player along with Wallace Johnson. The shameful bigotry he faced he was able to rise above.
Yet no statues for Gautt and Kalsu who deserve it the most.

 

[JConXtsy]

Demond Parker getting punched in the stomach and thereby "pulling" his stomach muscles, because he was fooling around with a teammate's woman.

He missed a few games that year and still rushed for ~1200 yds.

 

[JConXtsy]

Just thought of this one - How about Trey Mettoyer? The peeping Tom / diddler? That was a really strange one.

 

[Plainosooner]

When we talk about I wish in OU sports, to me, it's no contest. I wish we'd have won the GOTC, in 1971. Everybody in the program, came to you for that day.

One of the other managers on the sideline was shouting in the last five minutes, "LET EM SCORE." He was a freshman, but in retrospect, he was right. That day, if Derland Moore hadn't been hurt against KU in the game 12 days prior, I think we'd have won anyway. I really didn't get over that for more than 40 years. If only.....

 

[Oklabama]

When we talk about I wish in OU sports, to me, it's no contest. I wish we'd have won the GOTC, in 1971. Everybody in the program, came to you for that day.

One of the other managers on the sideline was shouting in the last five minutes, "LET EM SCORE." He was a freshman, but in retrospect, he was right. That day, if Derland Moore hadn't been hurt against KU in the game 12 days prior, I think we'd have won anyway. I really didn't get over that for more than 40 years. If only.....

But you wouldn’t take anything for that experience would you, Plaino? You were blessed to be there at that moment in time.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

But you wouldn’t take anything for that experience would you, Plaino? You were blessed to be there at that moment in time.

I was three.

 

[Plainosooner]

That was a very weird feeling afterward. Helped along when Dan Jenkins, the best writer at Sports Illustrated, most of whose stories were about college football, said that OU-Nebraska in 1971 was the best college football game of the 20th century. The GOTC became the permanent moniker after that.

People around the program knew it felt great to be part of something THAT special. But the disappointment at not winning was beyond an reasonable description. The importance was demonstated two years ago when the OU athletic department engineered at reunion 50 and 51 years late, to celebrate that game. A game that we lost. I even got to go to the reunion which was the night before the Nebraska game in 2021. Thank God that COVID didn't wipe it out.

I took my program from the 71 game, and by weird chance ended up sitting next to OU's first African American captain Glenn King, who was injured earlier and didn't get to play. And at the table behind me, and actually in the chair immediately behind was Nebraska's player of the game, and two time All American Rich Glover. I got both autographs in my program. I doubt anybody else has a program from that game, with the autograph of OU players AND Nebraska's best player. Or darned few.

I saw it in person. And Glover played the best defensive game against OU ever. He ended up in coaching. I seem to have misplace my program, but I know it's here, somewhere.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

The only team/rival that ever got my blood boiling was the huskers. To this day OUr all-time rival before the big12. The Osborne's huskers. 70s and 80s. Osborne and solich had a good thing goin before Steve pederson stepped in and fvcked it all up for husker, Callaghan being pedersons bitch. Solich got a raw deal and tom let it happen. Toms a legend I understand, but equally a dumb son of a bitch. Sad story for husker nation. Jmho.

 

[hOUston...]

Plaino, with this off week please reply to this thought. I always believed Jack Mildren was one of the best if not the best field general OU has had at QB. On the other hand, I always felt he lacked in his throwing ability. The pass that still sticks in my head was the overthrow to Jon Harrison towards the end of the 71 NU game. To this day I believe that if that pass had been completed the outcome of the game would have been different.

 

[hOUston...]

You're dead wrong about Bill Michael. I was assigned to him for 5 semesters. He was nothing like I thought he was, before I got to know him. He shared the OL duties with Don Boyce before they did a restructing of the staff early 70's. Once he became the only OU OL coach, we ended up having the best offensive line in Big 8 history.

It's true that Bill was the primary recruiter for Kerry Jackson. But if you believe that he made the unilateral decision to recruit Kerry Jackson, knowing he didn't have all the qualifications to qualify, that ridiculous. First of all, an assistant principal Galveston Ball High School knew what Kerry needed academically, and when Jackson fell short, changed the his high school transcript to make him eligible. This was the last year, before national standards went into place.

It was my last semester as a football manger assigned to Michael, when the stuff hit the fan in the spring . We'd recruited 7 freshmen quarterbacks the year after Kerry and equally highly ranked Scott Hill. All came to OU to find who could fill Mildren's shoes. We'd just graduated senior qb Dave Robertson, who'd replaced three year starter Jack Mildren a year earlier. Kerry was a freshman the first time since just after WWII, that freshmen were eligible to play varsity football.

Fifty years ago last spring, in 1973. Kerry was first on the depth chart, but that day, he wasn't at practice, and neither was Bill Michael. And all kinds or rumor were swarming. I'm the quizable type. The best explanation I heard from multiple players, was that the NCAA investigators. were foaming at the mouth to get OU. They were certain that OU was paying players, but they weren't able to prove anything. That, despite that every player in OU dorm parking lot, except two, were driving a really nice car. All their parents weren't rich.

But when the transcript change was found, they threw the book at OU, for a misdemeanor violation, they assigned a hefty two year probation. Michael took the fall for the staff. I even talked to his daughter about it, after Bill died seven years ago. If Bill knew, and the info on that is mixed, it's not a decision he made. He took it for the team, to keep higher ups from taking the big hit. This was three or four months after Barry Switzer changed positions, from OC to head coach. When Bill took responsibility, and OU agreed to a two year probation, the rest of the heat was taken away. But higher ups knew, if anybody did. I guarantee you, that if the Ball leadership, wanting desperately to have there terrific black high school quarterback go to OU and make a name for himself, they let somebody higher than Bill Michael know about it. I've always believed that if that was the case, that the big deal people at OU made sure to the university was insulated as much as possible. And Bill Michael sacrificed himself, for the good of OU.

 

[Plainosooner]

Plaino, with this off week please reply to this thought. I always believed Jack Mildren was one of the best if not the best field general OU has had at QB. On the other hand, I always felt he lacked in his throwing ability. The pass that still sticks in my head was the overthrow to Jon Harrison towards the end of the 71 NU game. To this day I believe that if that pass had been completed the outcome of the game would have been different.

I've watched the replay of that game 100 times over the years. And of that play. It wasn't as close as OU fans saw it. It was the one chance we had after Nebraska took the 35-31 lead. The ball was too flat. Had Jack put some air under it, it might have been another story. After that, the wheels came off. I believe we got one first down, but that was that.

Jack came out of high school believed to be a great passer. I've heard all kinds of stories about OU messing with is throwing motion. The one great think is that he was truly ambidextrous, in fact he wrote left handed. In high school he completed a couple of left handed passes, which grew his legend helping create the great recruiting storythe SI end of the magazine story, where the long, feature stories were published. That story was part of how OU's second dynasty was born. The class after Jack's was better than his, which was pretty ballyhooed. But, Jack's high school team, Abilene Cooper was a great team and really good on offense. When you could throw with a true dual threat quarterback, you could be really good. And Jon Harrison, his high school teammate, was a great receiver, who was fast and ran great routes. Jack's throwing skills were probably a little overrated coming out of high school.

He wasn't much taller than 6 feet. His throwing form wasn't great. It probably didn't help much that Switzer was the OC, and quarterback's coach. Barry was an old two way lineman at Arkansas. His understanding of the throwing game was a little different than we have now. Back then, almost all the best teams in the country ran the ball. Notre Dame and USC were the notable exceptions. I think on the long throw to Jon, the wind had picked up in the second half, and it had gotten colder. And Nebraska had keep the ball for so long, the combination of new shoes, he's just put on because it was threatening to rain. a little slight slickness to the ball with some light sprinkling, and fearing the overthrow, he gunned it, hoping to have it less wind affected. In seeking not to overthrow it, he gunned an overthrow.

The other best teams threw to keep teams honest, as a surprise and when they needed a big play, In 1969-71. it was a 15-yard penalty for offensive holding. That's why Darrell Royal was famous for the immortal word, "When you throw the ball, three things can happen, and two of them are bad." But he'd learned from Bud Wilkinson. And when Texas needed to throw, they were good at it in crunch, even with a wishbone. So did Bud, in a day when pass blocking rules are much different than they are now.

I agree with you about Jack being the ultimate field general. But it was ironic, that sometime after the start of his junior spring practice, he was stung because Switzer complained to him privately that he was a poor field general. I don't think that anything a coach ever said to him, hurt him more. I don't know if Barry was trying to stir him up, or if he really believed that, but i KNOW that it bothered Jack a lot.

In those days, I had kind of a special bond with Jack. My high school team, where I was also a manager, won state in AA, the same day that Austin Reagan upset Cooper for the state AAAA. I razzed him about it enough shortly after meeting him, that he gave me the nickname Plano, and it's the only thing anyone in the football program called me for four years.

He knew I think how much I "worshipped him.: And maybe five or six times on Sunday evenings, he asked me to go to dinner with him. Maybe there wasn't anybody else handy. But we talked about that Switzer admonishment more than once. It's so sad, that he died so young of such a horrible cancer. And he was SOOO tough. After he died, Greg Pruitt talked about his great leadership. I mean, he ended up Lt Governor of Oklahoma. For a kid who great up in Texas, that's quite a leadership accomplishment. He'd have been governor too, is the first two years of Bill Clinton's presidency hadn't been so abysmal.

 

[CTOkie]

I have always wondered how OU’s fortune might have been had Darrell Royal followed Wilkinson.
I can understand why Royal chose to stay at Texas after Bud’s retirement after the 1963 season given his success at Texas and having access to a great recruiting area. Gomer Jones was simply the wrong man at the wrong time for OU, even though he served so well as Bud’s assistant.

 

[loopafied68]

Negative - Bomar
Positive - Runnels

 

[CTOkie]

Negative Mixon
Positive DeMarco Murray

 

[Oklabama]

Amen that. Kalsu was special.

Robert (Bob) was two classes above me. He was a great guy. Never hazed the newbies like most of the upperclassmen. He was the best athlete of the Class of ‘63. Football, basketball and baseball. One of the nicest guys I’ve ever known.