Serious Baseball Thread

[sybarite]

I thought this was entitled a serious discussion.

There is a lot of difference in Atlanta and the Red Sox in the eighties. I'm not so sure that I couldn't have had a couple of hits in the Red Sox lineup with people like Baylor, Boggs, Evans, and Buckner around. Then, you look at what the Braves had, and it reminds you more of the Boston Braves, a couple of starters who couldn't hit 200. Rice could hit, but I must admit remembering him as a bit overrated due to his circumstances. But, he probably does merit Hall status because he was a threat with the bat. I think the national media are more aware of the Red Sox than the Braves.

You could probably have a Hall of Fame career at Arizona, Toronto, Detroit, Seattle, and Kansas City without more than thirty percent of the fans having heard of you. Atlanta kind of fits into that category. The Red Sox play the Yankees and are rivals. That guarantees a certain amount of media recognition. Individual Yankees may be overrated a bit because of where they are playing, and they are usually surrounded with talent. With Atlanta, you look to see why they are winning. With the Yankees, you wonder what is going on when they lose. They get who they want in free agency, and they always have talent. Yet, I haven't feared the Yankees like we did in the early fifties when they won five straight, and they could never get the third baseman that they wanted. We remember some of them as being pretty good, but the Yankees were never satisfied with third base. Hank Bauer was never a great hitter, but he was always on the field. He did his job. Gene Woodling was similar, more effective than they looked on paper.

If Luis Arroyo had played in Arizona, do you think we would know who he is?

I guess that I think that Murphy could well be Hall material. It is so arbitrary, and there is Rizzuto.

 

[CTOkie]

Point taken. I just look at Murphy's back to back MVPs, five straight Gold Gloves and four straight Silver Sluggers (none of which Rice can match) as why I believe Murphy is at least as deserving. IIRC Rice also had far more protection in the lineup that Murphy usually had on some awful Braves teams in the 1980s. Murphy's resume and career numbers were killed by the fact that he "flamed out" so quickly with four extremely nondescript years in Philadelphia and Colorado at the end of his ML career. To his credit, Rice was able to keep things on a much more level keel while spending his entire career in Boston. Murphy had four years (two at the beginning and two at the end) in which he played fewer than 30 games which skew the numbers of his 18 year career.

As an aside CT don't you lose status in the Yankee fanbase by coming to the defense of a Red Sox player?

Hey, a great player is a great player. I admire Koufax, Ted Williams, Steve Carlton, Pedro Martinez, among many others....players whose teams I disliked. I liked Mazeroski as a player and I have no dislike for the Pirates. I just don't believe he's a Hall of Famer....but I'm not troubled that he is.
Everyone has opinions on HOF qualifications....Mike Francesa, a very popular and very overrated NYC icon talk show host does not believe Craig Biggio is a Hall of Famer. Plaino does not think Jeter is a Hall of Famer.
As an aside....my "status" in any team's fan base doesn't mean a whole lot to me.

 

[WP76]

Good points, CT. For me Mazeroski--no (it seems like a single HR in the 1960 Series got him in), Biggio--probably, Piazza--yes, Jeter--no question in my mind. I used to loathe the Dodgers but I've never seen a better pitcher than Koufax between 1961 and 1966.

As far as Francesa, I'm familiar with him. You're right, the "Pope" is vastly overrated. In his case, being a sports radio icon ain't what it used to be.