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Read this CBS piece yet on the Pharisees down in Waco?

Phaeded

Sooner starter
Jun 5, 2001
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Dear Ken Starr,

Your university has a problem. Silence from Baylor won't make it go away.

Where's the remorse and compassion for rape victims? Words are one thing. Actions are quite another. As president and chancellor, you can show the public that Baylor understands what went wrong.

It's not just that ESPN's Outside the Lines reported deeply disturbing allegations from the mouths of rape victims. These women, one mother and a local district attorney talked about how inadequately Baylor investigated multiple allegations of sexual violence committed by two football players, who were both convicted of sexual assault.

Title IX requires universities to investigate these complaints and provide support for the accuser so, like one Baylor victim did, she doesn't drop out of school as her grades suffer. You know all of this. That's why Baylor added a Title IX coordinator in 2014, three years after the U.S. Department of Education described the position as critical for universities to have and two years after one of your football players was convicted of rape.

But as horrific as the stories are from victims, that's not your biggest problem. Your problem is Baylor's response -- or lack of it.

You want your students and alumni and the public to trust that Baylor has overhauled its Title IX system to address sexual assault allegations. You've created an athletic department position that will report to you and contain the authority to oversee all behavior by Baylor athletes.

Yet Baylor couldn't tell ESPN whether it will make public a final report about how the university handled the allegations that football players Sam Ukwuachu and Tevin Elliott raped students. (A university spokesperson didn't respond to a CBS Sports request for comment on potentially releasing the report, which is being compiled by high-priced Philadelphia lawyers for Baylor.)

Baylor police refused to release any records to ESPN related to the past incidents despite a new Texas law that makes private campus police departments subject to state open records laws. Baylor didn't turn over the records even though two women signed release forms allowing it.

Baylor knew the latest ESPN story was coming and, rather than allowing key people at the university to speak, put out its Title IX coordinator to talk in generalities about improvement. That might limit liability for the moment -- Baylor has already settled with Ukwuachu's victim -- but it speaks volumes about your efforts to really move forward.

If you want good advice on what to do, listen to Kathy Redmond Brown. She was raped by a Nebraska football player twice in the 1990s. She knows firsthand how football can run universities and how rape can linger with women for years. When Nebraska failed to discipline the player, she sued the school long before Title IX lawsuits were common and got a settlement. She later formed the National Coalition Against Violent Athletes.

“If you're Baylor right now, you're launching an investigation and asking the Department of Education to help,” Brown said. “You're asking the victims to help. You're contacting them and saying, 'What happened and how can we help you?' You're putting together a focus group of those victims and the administrators they went to, and you talk about where our issues are.

“You're going to want to do an investigation of everything, and you're going to want to expose everything and go back and fix it. You're going to want your words and actions to be humble and remorseful. That's not what you're getting from Baylor which, let me remind you, is a Christian institution.”

Baylor is hardly the only university that has gone through this before. Across the country, the Department of Education is investigating 161 colleges for inadequate responses to sexual assault complaints. Baylor isn't on that list, at least not yet.

By now, though, there is a playbook on how to handle the aftermath of shoddy university investigations into rape allegations. In 2014, ESPN exposed that a Missouri football player was accused by four women of assault, including a rape allegation, until finally being dismissed from the team. The player was later convicted of rape.

One day after the report, Missouri football coach Gary Pinkel and athletic director Mike Alden addressed the media. Alden said mistakes were made. Pinkel described a “he said, she said” situation in which he lacked information from the police.

Missouri eventually released a 23-page report that was commissioned by the university. Independent investigators concluded that high-ranking Missouri officials failed on multiple occasions to report to police or campus Title IX compliance their knowledge of rape allegations involving football players.

The president of the University of Missouri's system contacted the parents of the victim, who had previously committed suicide. Missouri utterly failed this woman. But thanks in large part to extensive reporting by ESPN, the university exposed its mistakes to move forward.

Your university, Ken Starr? It has stayed silent. You addressed your students Wednesday night in an email. You said Baylor can't provide more information on specific cases because it is protected by federal student privacy laws and that commenting would hurt the integrity of the ongoing investigation by Pepper Hamilton law firm.

“We acknowledge and appreciate the tremendous courage these women demonstrated by coming forward to share their experiences, and to continue to raise consciousness and awareness about these critical issues,” you wrote. “Their voices are important, and their perspectives help to inform positive steps to enhance campus responses.”

These are words. Your students and alumni want more. “I keep getting emails saying we care, we care,” Baylor graduate Stefanie Mundhenk told The Baylor Lariat, the student newspaper. “Their actions do not follow their words. He is not spending time to actually address the issue. He is not writing an email to me actually trying to address the issue.”

This was part of your email last September, Ken: “Some have concluded that we could have done more. Perhaps so. Our independent investigation will soon reveal if opportunities exist for improvements in the way we respond to allegations of sexual violence. But I retain full confidence in our Student Life professionals.”

Given the latest ESPN story, it strongly suggests Baylor didn't take seriously the Elliott rape case several years ago. Otherwise, how do you explain why Baylor so poorly handled its Title IX investigation of Ukwuachu that a trial judge wouldn't even allow him to use it as a defense?

How is it possible that Baylor conducted a university investigation, which has a much lower burden of proof than a court of law, and found Ukwuachu did nothing wrong yet a jury found him guilty of rape? “(Baylor) didn't have someone that seemed to know anything about how college rape occurs,” McLennan County Assistant District Attorney Hilary LaBorde, who prosecuted the Elliott and Ukwuachu cases, told ESPN.

Why would Baylor defensive coordinator Phil Bennett publicly say last June the team expected Ukwuachu, a transfer from Boise State with a checkered past, to finally be eligible to play in July? That was one month before Ukwuachu was convicted of sexual assault. The public didn't know for a while about Ukwuachu's charges because his indictment was sealed. Baylor officials knew and, although he wasn't playing, kept him on scholarship

How does it reach the point that one woman told ESPN that Baylor chief judicial officer Bethany McCraw said she was the sixth woman to report an incident against Elliott? The woman said she was told coach Art Briles knew of the incidents, “but it turns into a he-said-she said, so there's got to be, actually a court decision in order to act on it in any sort of way.” (Elliott was suspended by Briles in April 2012 after his sexual assault arrest. ESPN reported Baylor judicial affair officials were aware that Elliott received a misdemeanor sexually-related assault citation in November 2011.)

Do you see the pattern, Ken? You're the former independent counsel who investigated President Bill Clinton's sex scandal. Sure, there are complexities in rape allegations. But providing transparency doesn't depend upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is.

Are you willing to dig that deep again and risk exposing skeletons at Baylor, where the football program has become one of the nation's best and just signed the highest-rated recruiting class with Briles as coach? Are you willing to gamble that Baylor donors will continue to give money without real answers about the rapes? Baylor is winning so you have that going for you. College sports fans love winners and excel at compartmentalizing their moral dilemmas.

“Many of these schools believe they're too big to fail,” Redmond Brown said. “They believe this will blow over and it's just a blip. And they're probably right. Until the consuming parent says I'm not going to pay your ridiculous amount of tuition and board so my child can be raped, this is going to continue.”

There's a path toward some measure of redemption, Ken.

Stop hiding behind privacy laws and Baylor's status as a private university. Explain fully what mistakes occurred and why your students and alumni should believe they won't happen again.

Show us, don't tell us.

Sincerely,

Jon Solomon, CBS Sports

www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/25473202/open-letter-to-ken-starr-stop-stonewalling-about-baylor-rapes
 
This letter is written regardless of who the President of Baylor is, facts being the same. Starr provided them an easy target.

In full disclosure, one of my very good friends, and pastor has spent a great deal of time with Starr over the past 24 months regarding the issue of the definition of marriage in Texas. Even accompanied him to DC where Starr was to debate Alan Dershowitz on the issue. So I'm not anti Ken Starr. I'm anti Baylor doing whatever it has to in order to feed the monster. Just like they did when one of their basketball players murdered another one.
 
This letter is written regardless of who the President of Baylor is, facts being the same. Starr provided them an easy target.

In full disclosure, one of my very good friends, and pastor has spent a great deal of time with Starr over the past 24 months regarding the issue of the definition of marriage in Texas. Even accompanied him to DC where Starr was to debate Alan Dershowitz on the issue. So I'm not anti Ken Starr. I'm anti Baylor doing whatever it has to in order to feed the monster. Just like they did when one of their basketball players murdered another one.
Been trying to gently remind our restless fan base that Baylor is dirty...real dirty. A small school with their history of recruiting doesn't just "suddenly" start pulling in top 10-20 classes consistently. Buying thug$ just makes it worse. Contrast Baylor to KSU and Coach Snyder. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to $ee it.
 
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Been trying to gently remind our restless fan base that Baylor is dirty...real dirty. A small school with their history of recruiting doesn't just "suddenly" start pulling in top 10-20 classes consistently. Buying thug$ just makes it worse. Contrast Baylor to KSU and Coach Snyder. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to $ee it.
Baylor hasn't been consistently pulling in top 10-20 recruiting classes. At least not according to Rivals rankings. I haven't looked at ESPN, Scout, etc. In fact, prior the 2016 class, Baylor hadn't even had a class crack into the Top 30. Their classes under Briles up till now have been mostly in the 30s-40s area.
 
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Baylor hasn't been consistently pulling in top 10-20 recruiting classes. At least not according to Rivals rankings. I haven't looked at ESPN, Scout, etc. In fact, prior the 2016 class, Baylor hadn't even had a class crack into the Top 30. Their classes under Briles up till now have been mostly in the 30s-40s area.
RG3 says hello. Dirty...very dirty.
 
RG3 says hello. Dirty...very dirty.
And the rest of that recruitment class was 2* and 3* players and finished ranked 51st in the country. Just because Briles landed one 4* player in Griffin that class isn't evidence of really anything.
Heck, OU was in a dogfight till the very end with Kansas to land the commitment of Bledsoe. Does that mean Kansas was doing some dirty things in recruitment too?
 
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A lot of the time a recruit might go to a smaller school based on how soon/much they can play. Robert Griffin III committed to Houston until Briles accepted the Baylor job. He flipped to Baylor and attended there in the spring semester of 2007, joining the track team before signing his LOI. The idea that he was paid off or Baylor was dirty at that point is propaganda at best.
 
A lot of times kids go to a school because it's financially lucrative or beneficial for them to do so. It's been going on for years and it's not going to stop until the NCAA does something about. I'm always amazed at how many fans are actually unaware because to think that it's not happening is very naive.

Look at Baylor's style of play. They're recruiting too many thugs and punks. Baylor doesn't haven't the boo$ter resources like Texas or OU. Makes sense that kids with a history like this would come for a little less $$.
 
People aren't naïve at all to the thought of college kids getting thrown some money to choose certain programs. Of course it's been going on for decades and will always be something that happens.
But Baylor didn't suddenly start putting together top 10-20 recruiting classes out of the blue. Briles built his programs success on the backs of recruiting classes that never cracked the top 30, and generally were down in the 40s. Baylor's 2016 class is the first class under Briles to ever crack the top 20.
But if you are gonna start throwing around accusations that other programs MUST be dirty to recruit kids, then why not go ahead and accuse OU and Bob of doing the same thing??
 
A lot of times kids go to a school because it's financially lucrative or beneficial for them to do so. It's been going on for years and it's not going to stop until the NCAA does something about. I'm always amazed at how many fans are actually unaware because to think that it's not happening is very naive.

Look at Baylor's style of play. They're recruiting too many thugs and punks. Baylor doesn't haven't the boo$ter resources like Texas or OU. Makes sense that kids with a history like this would come for a little less $$.

Do you have any evidence to suggest that RGIII received financial benefits from Briles or Baylor? He was offered by Uterus as an athlete/DB type. Briles told him he'd be his QB, and Briles has a solid record of developing them through the years.

I find it rather interesting that you mention RGIII and dirty, very dirty, without any substantial proof of wrongdoing in his case. Can you show any teams in Texas that offered him other than Baylor and Houston? Mack Brown said there was an initial offer, yet not as a QB. No other Texas schools offered, OU didn't offer, yet Kansas did. So did Nebraska. Did they not offer enough money, or did just maybe, RGIII liked Briles offense and being less than an hour away from home?
 
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Do you have any evidence to suggest that RGIII received financial benefits from Briles or Baylor? He was offered by Uterus as an athlete/DB type. Briles told him he'd be his QB, and Briles has a solid record of developing them through the years.

I find it rather interesting that you mention RGIII and dirty, very dirty, without any substantial proof of wrongdoing in his case. Can you show any teams in Texas that offered him other than Baylor and Houston? Mack Brown said there was an initial offer, yet not as a QB. No other Texas schools offered, OU didn't offer, yet Kansas did. So did Nebraska. Did they not offer enough money, or did just maybe, RGIII liked Briles offense and being less than an hour away from home?
I stated my opinion. You obviously don't agree. This isn't going to go well...
 
Do you have any evidence to suggest that RGIII received financial benefits from Briles or Baylor? He was offered by Uterus as an athlete/DB type. Briles told him he'd be his QB, and Briles has a solid record of developing them through the years.

I find it rather interesting that you mention RGIII and dirty, very dirty, without any substantial proof of wrongdoing in his case. Can you show any teams in Texas that offered him other than Baylor and Houston? Mack Brown said there was an initial offer, yet not as a QB. No other Texas schools offered, OU didn't offer, yet Kansas did. So did Nebraska. Did they not offer enough money, or did just maybe, RGIII liked Briles offense and being less than an hour away from home?
Now I will give it that Briles and Baylor has questionable moral standards for how that program is being operated. You see it in the behavior of their players on and off the field. But I've never heard anything that relates to Baylor paying players under the table. In fact, it's highly unlikely that Baylor would have to start shelling out cash to 2* and 3* kids that have comprised the bulk of their recruiting classes prior to the 2016 class.

I mean if Briles is gonna shell out cash to sign RG3, then what happened with the next 2 QBs that kept the Baylor machine going??
Bryce Petty - 3* kid with 4 total offers, Baylor, Nebraska, New Mexico, VaTech
Seth Russell - 3* kid with 4 total offers, Baylor, Kansas, North Texas, Wake Forest

I'm assuming Briles had to shell out big money for those guys with offer lists like that? I mean if Briles was willing to throw out money to sign a kid like RG3, then why not keep the gravy train going and keep doing it to get more elite QBs than Petty and Russell?? :eek:
 
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It's not worth all these histrionics.

Some here, and rightly so suspect something is amiss at Baylor. We can do that.
Now, if some here want to defend them, you can do that too.

No one is in any secure position to take the moral high ground.

It's speculation, we can do that too.
 
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It's not worth all these histrionics.

Some here, and rightly so suspect something is amiss at Baylor. We can do that.
Now, if some here want to defend them, you can do that too.

No one is in any secure position to take the moral high ground.

It's speculation, we can do that too.

I would agree something is amiss there in regards to sexual assaults. To assume that their Heisman winning QB was bought before they had averaged one conference game win a season is a stretch.

Not having many offers, yet one of them being from one of the most recognized t&f teams nationally while having the opportunity to play football immediately just might be all RGIII needed. Just months after arriving on campus he won the 400 meter hurdles in the BigXII and Midwest Regionals, then placed 3rd at the NCAA Championships.

After graduating early in December of 2007, he was an All American as a freshman before his Coperas Cove teammates graduated high school.
 
It's no different than Ole Miss.

I've had a hunch about them for several years. Turns out I was right in that they're on the cusp of getting some sanctions by the NCAA. You develop an intuition about things that just gnaws at your liver. You can't ignore it.

Just talking about the Rivals.
 
It's no different than Ole Miss.

I've had a hunch about them for several years. Turns out I was right in that they're on the cusp of getting some sanctions by the NCAA. You develop an intuition about things that just gnaws at your liver. You can't ignore it.

Just talking about the Rivals.
It's not hard to draw such conclusions based on outside observations. It's much easier when you've talked to players and coaches.
 
So it's alright to speculate based on unsubstantiated rumors or opinions about players/programs as long as it isn't OU? Interesting.
 
And the rest of that recruitment class was 2* and 3* players and finished ranked 51st in the country. Just because Briles landed one 4* player in Griffin that class isn't evidence of really anything.
Heck, OU was in a dogfight till the very end with Kansas to land the commitment of Bledsoe. Does that mean Kansas was doing some dirty things in recruitment too?

RGIII was a different issue. He was a state class intermediate hurdler and some thought world class. Everybody in his town and I've heard, family, wanted him to pursue a spot in the Olympics and the word was that it was his goal.

So the better schools who offered him,, only offered as a receiver or DB, because they didn't think he could be their quarterback while missing every spring and spending his other not football time practicing what track athletes do. Baylor offered hims as a quarterback and encouraged him to do both. AND, Baylor had, and I think still has, one of the country and really the world's great track coaches. So when Briles left UHouston and took the Baylor job, it was a win win for RG.

He quit track and became a Heisman winner. Everybody knew he was a great prospect. But nobody else thought he'd make football his priority.
 
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Well, I like OU.

We'll let our Rivals speculate about our alleged sins.
I'll never do it.

Borderline blasphemous.:cool:

So do I, yet that wasn't the question. I just wanted to know whether one could or couldn't speak of other players/programs based on rumor/speculation on this forum.

If a player received money or other incentives to go to said school, then does it require some sort of evidence, or not?
 
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So do I, yet that wasn't the question. I just wanted to know whether one could or couldn't speak of other players/programs based on rumor/speculation on this forum.

If a player received money or other incentives to go to said school, then does it require some sort of evidence, or not?

Not, if you simply perceive something is rotten in Denmark.
Also, I'm not grinding on this anymore. I've made my point as crystal clear as possible.

Now, if you'll excuse me...going to Youtube and watch the 9 minute version of Superbad by James Brown. Playing those crisp rhythm chords on the guitar.

See ya!
 
Not at all, those topics are quite common on the Horn and OSU boards. At least from my experience.

This isn't the whorn or aggies board. Claiming one is dirty based on rumor/speculation is what I'm talking about, regardless of school affiliation, on this board.
 
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I was wrong. Clyde Hart, the longtime Baylor track coach, whose greatest pupil was Michael Johnson, retired as Baylor track coach seven months ago. He'd had that position since the 60s. His title is now Baylor's "Director of Track and Field." But he was definitely their coach during RG III's four years in Waco.
 
A lot of times kids go to a school because it's financially lucrative or beneficial for them to do so. It's been going on for years and it's not going to stop until the NCAA does something about. I'm always amazed at how many fans are actually unaware because to think that it's not happening is very naive.

Look at Baylor's style of play. They're recruiting too many thugs and punks. Baylor doesn't haven't the boo$ter resources like Texas or OU. Makes sense that kids with a history like this would come for a little less $$.

How quick some forget. OU has had their thugs as well. Quite a few in the past 10 years. Many were kicked off the team or dropped etc. I don't like Baylor's Briles. I don't care for his tactics etc. But I also don't believe there is a contrived effort to solicit and pay kids to attend Baylor nor do I think OU is doing the same. Based on your opinion, I guess many could say that one of our latest recruits to sign, Jackson, was paid to flip to OU. Not only did he commit with OU in less than 10 days before NSD, hell he wasn't even listed as having an offer by OU by any of the top four recruiting services. Suddenly he appears out of the blue. My point is, here in Texas, Baylor has generated alot of excitement in regards to their football program. And while one may not be able to see, feel, understand and comprehend this, it's happening. The same thing is happening with the Houston program now. Are either up to OU's history? Hell no. But nonetheless, many alumni from both schools down here in Texas are very, very excited about the progress of their universities.
 
Pretty sure Jackson had an OU offer for a long time. But some sites remove the list of offers when they commit elsewhere. OU had recruited Jackson for a while. He mentioned that in his interview on the pay side.

But that description would fit Jones. That one came out of left field. However I don't think we outbid Mississippi State for him. I think that they're losing their stud quarterback, who went to the Senior Bowl. And they are very likely to take their lumps the next few years in the SEC West. And let's face it. The OU trophy room is just a wee bit more impressive than that of the Bulldogs. He flipped to a more high profile football school. That happens a lot.

I could be wrong, but I agree with you about Baylor in that respect. I could be very wrong, but I don't think they're dragging out a bunch of payola. I might be naive about it. But they're still very dirty in so many respects. And especially on the field.

The question now is: will they ever win a major bowl game. They only have one in 1956. And even with all the Briles ballyhoo, none sinse. Been to I guess four or five, but no wins.We're comin' up on 60 years since.

Briles keeps telling recruits that they're going to win a national title. I can only think of one team in my memory who won an NC without a major bowl win, and that was BYU in '84. Pretty much an impossibility these days. So if Briles is going to win an NC, he ought to at least show some progress by winning a major bowl first.

It's easier now. For years and years, there were only four. Now, they are six.
 
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Pretty sure Jackson had an OU offer for a long time. But some sites remove the list of offers when they commit elsewhere. OU had recruited Jackson for a while. He mentioned that in his interview on the pay side.

But that description would fit Jones. That one came out of left field. However I don't think we outbid Mississippi State for him. I think that they're losing their stud quarterback, who went to the Senior Bowl. And they are very likely to take their lumps the next few years in the SEC West. And let's face it. The OU trophy room is just a wee bit more impressive than that of the Bulldogs. He flipped to a more high profile football school. That happens a lot.

I could be wrong, but I agree with you about Baylor in that respect. I could be very wrong, but I don't think they're dragging out a bunch of payola. I might be naive about it. But they're still very dirty in so many respects. And especially on the field.

The question now is: will they ever win a major bowl game. They only have one in 1956. And even with all the Briles ballyhoo, none sinse. Been to I guess four or five, but no wins.We're comin' up on 60 years since.

Briles keeps telling recruits that they're going to win a national title. I can only think of one team in my memory who won an NC without a major bowl win, and that was BYU in '84. Pretty much an impossibility these days. So if Briles is going to win an NC, he ought to at least show some progress by winning a major bowl first.

It's easier now. For years and years, there were only four. Now, they are six.
Good post Plaino. Theres little doubt they're dirty, I believe $$ has a lot to do with it, Briles as well. Boo$ter$ aren't going to pump a lot of money into a part of the program if they don't believe things will change. Briles can coach too. Combine that will the relatively sudden rise the past few years and the type of players they're bringing in....I think they're cutting corners...big time.
 
How quick some forget. OU has had their thugs as well. Quite a few in the past 10 years. Many were kicked off the team or dropped etc. I don't like Baylor's Briles. I don't care for his tactics etc. But I also don't believe there is a contrived effort to solicit and pay kids to attend Baylor nor do I think OU is doing the same. Based on your opinion, I guess many could say that one of our latest recruits to sign, Jackson, was paid to flip to OU. Not only did he commit with OU in less than 10 days before NSD, hell he wasn't even listed as having an offer by OU by any of the top four recruiting services. Suddenly he appears out of the blue. My point is, here in Texas, Baylor has generated alot of excitement in regards to their football program. And while one may not be able to see, feel, understand and comprehend this, it's happening. The same thing is happening with the Houston program now. Are either up to OU's history? Hell no. But nonetheless, many alumni from both schools down here in Texas are very, very excited about the progress of their universities.
Excitement in the program leads to boo$ste$ contributing more money. More money means better recruits. It happens....everywhere.
 
Excitement in the program leads to boo$ste$ contributing more money. More money means better recruits. It happens....everywhere.

Such as the new toilet style stadium named for McLane... do you think better on campus facilities help as much as the unconfirmed $'s recruits supposedly receive?
 
It amazes me to read on this board that every up & coming program, and especially those that compete with and have beaten OU, are paying players. But it is what it is. I'd like to think that OU wins straight up but if I used some thoughts from this board, then they must pay for every recruit as well.
 
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