Most of your post regarding the three is just a hunch on your part. You know nothing more than the average fan. I admit I have no idea. None of us know.
Poll - Which Conference should OU be in?
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Most of your post regarding the three is just a hunch on your part. You know nothing more than the average fan. I admit I have no idea. None of us know.
Well I thought the same thing.... Sometimes theses topics take a turn....or even 360. Lol
No, it's not a hunch. We're still in the XII. The only hunch is whether Bob would stay. I wouldn't put money on it, but I believe that if we go to the SEC, that Bob will go be a Norman North football fan, with great seats.
And Sooner coach emeritus. If Bob wanted OU to be in the SEC, we'd be there already.
You are basing your stance in the current day, on decisions Boren, JoeC, and Bob made 4 or 5 years ago. Clearly there has been a change of heart on some level, since Boren is now publicly making demands he feels the Big XII needs to meet. If Boren felt that way 4 or 5 years ago, then he would have made those same demands back then correct? But here we are years down the road, and Boren clearly feels something is amiss in the Big XII, hence the reason he is making public demands. I think the bigger, and better, question here is what is Boren prepared to do if Texas doesn't want to back off it's LHN in the interest for the conference as a whole?? I'm not so certain Boren would make a public demand like that without having a backup plan in case he isn't able to get what he wants.
And your last point is under the impression that it was Bob's decision on where the University of Oklahoma should take it's sports programs. The decision was above his head. David Boren made that decision. I have no doubt that Bob gave his opinion and input. Even if Bob had wanted to move to the SEC, in the end Boren had to make the call in what he believed was in the best interests for the entire University of Oklahoma....at that time. But in the end, make no mistake, it was Boren that made that call...not Bob.
I wouldn't characterize what Boren said as a demand. My belief is that Boren has talked to fellow school presidents and has built a private consensus and then said publicly what is the belief of a strong majority of school presidents could agree with. It's not about what is best for one school. It's about what is best for the whole group. The foremost manifestation of that would be a conference network. It has changed the Big Ten. It has helped the SEC not just in football, but across the board.
OU will be okay competitively wherever we end up. But for every sport that isn't football, the Big XII is by far the best option for Oklahoma. It is certainly better for OUr student athletes. Less travel time. Better opportunities for parents of recruits to see their sons play. And OU fans close to the campus.
I promise you that if Bob walked into Boren's office tomorrow, and dragged Joe C with him, and told them both that it was time to go to any other conference, it would be very likely to happen quickly. And I'm virtually certain that Bob knows it to be the case. Bob understands the details of game day probably better than any other person in the state. He knows where it is to his best advantage to be.
And to OU in the future.
Boren is the politician and great at it. I believe the OU decision has been made by the big three, and Boren's public stance was part three of maximizing the process. Part one was the decision by OU's leadership. That might include 20 coaches, plus other key sources.
Part two, was Boren moving forward with the other members of the conference. The details might not be something we're ever sure of. But my guess is that there is a combine of six to nine schools that want to accomplish what Boren spelled out
Part three was Boren's public statements attributed to the OU president, but had to be reflected by a majority of conference members. Part three will also include the implementation of that, which has already called for some sacrifice for the betterment of the conference. And it is going to mean a confrontation eventually behind the scenes with the school that almost singlehandedly drove four solid conference members away.
What has happened publicly, reflects that to be the case. If OU still didn't want to be part of the Big XII, then this second and third part would not have taken place. I doubt that Boren, Stoops and Joe C are in the identical play that they were five years ago. So to a certain extent, your statement is true. But the basics haven't changed about OU wanting to continue to be part of the Big XII. And there are good logistical cases to be made that it is the right thing for Sooner athletics.
OU will be okay competitively wherever we end up. But for every sport that isn't football, the Big XII is by far the best option for Oklahoma. It is certainly better for OUr student athletes. Less travel time. Better opportunities for parents of recruits to see their sons play. And OU fans close to the campus.
I promise you that if Bob walked into Boren's office tomorrow, and dragged Joe C with him, and told them both that it was time to go to any other conference, it would be very likely to happen quickly. And I'm virtually certain that Bob knows it to be the case. Bob understands the details of game day probably better than any other person in the state. He knows where it is to his best advantage to be.
And to OU in the future.
Boren is the politician and great at it. I believe the OU decision has been made by the big three, and Boren's public stance was part three of maximizing the process. Part one was the decision by OU's leadership. That might include 20 coaches, plus other key sources.
Part two, was Boren moving forward with the other members of the conference. The details might not be something we're ever sure of. But my guess is that there is a combine of six to nine schools that want to accomplish what Boren spelled out
Part three was Boren's public statements attributed to the OU president, but had to be reflected by a majority of conference members. Part three will also include the implementation of that, which has already called for some sacrifice for the betterment of the conference. And it is going to mean a confrontation eventually behind the scenes with the school that almost singlehandedly drove four solid conference members away.
What has happened publicly, reflects that to be the case. If OU still didn't want to be part of the Big XII, then this second and third part would not have taken place. I doubt that Boren, Stoops and Joe C are in the identical play that they were five years ago. So to a certain extent, your statement is true. But the basics haven't changed about OU wanting to continue to be part of the Big XII. And there are good logistical cases to be made that it is the right thing for Sooner athletics.
If OU is playing most of their games 900 miles away from Texas in the Big Ten, or 750 miles away on average in the SEC, we will lose recruits in Texas. That will not hurt TCU or Baylor.
Then add two elite teams to the Big 12, if that's possible anymore....and stop losing 2 of 3 games to Texas.
I go to bed early and get up around 4:30 to take my walk. So I see now that Bob Stoops is the key to OU's future. Not Boren. Not Joe C, and not the OU Board of Regents. If Bob wanted to be in the SEC, we would already be there. All he needs to do is drag Joe C into David Boren's office and tell them it's time to join another conference.....the SEC, or for that matter the ACC. I like Bob Stoops. He is a good man, coach, and from everything I know about him he's a good husband and father. He's been an outstanding coach for Oklahoma, but no coach should ever be given this kind of power. Especially one that may not be even coaching in the next decade.
I yield to the board's insider on this subject.
I yield to the board's insider on this subject.
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I am guilty of Rule #2 of "Enough is Enough". I responded to an unprovoked attack and snide remark on this thread. I await my punishment.
O Bama, if Boren made those decisions without Bob's input, you'd complain even louder. It is actually the BoR that has final say, but it's the same principle.
And yet, the Big XII hasn't won a national title in over 10 years. And on the flip side, the SEC, which many believe the toughest conference in the country, has won 9 of the last 13 national titles. Maybe THAT'S the part most are having trouble understanding......
Those SEC titles have more to do with Cam Newton, Tim Tebow, Urban Myer and Nick Saban than conference. Vince Young at Texas did the same.
Being in a conference doesnt win you a championship. Most of the SEC teams havent even come close in the last 10 years. Big xii teams like Okie St, Baylor and TCU have been 1 play or 1 win away from championship game or playoffs. They would not sniff that chance in the SEC.
Lol, exactly. There is NO FRIKING WAY Bob Stoops has that kind of power at OU. Plaino made it sound as if Bob has JoeC on a leash and would "drag him into Boren's office". Give me a break. LOL
How is big xii in trouble? They have great bowl tie ins especially with Sugar bowl deal. People like watching teams like West Va, Baylor, TCU and Okie light. These teams all get good TV ratings for not being a powerhouse. I think it is the style of play and the people in the big xii are football crazy.
More people watch Baylor vs TCU than a pac 12 championship game.
Well "close" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
And you're right. Titles are won with great players. So that brings up another question...why is the SEC completely dominating recruiting these days?? Clearly kids want to go where the competition is, rather than playing in a conference that has the "easiest" path to the title game.
But that's the thing, your original point was attempting to claim the Big XII is the best option since it presents the easiest path to the title game. If that's true, then why hasn't the Big XII made more of a habit of getting teams in national title games?? The facts completely discredit your claim. In fact, they point to the complete opposite since SEC teams, whom have the toughest path to the title game, are the teams routinely winning national titles.
[QReUOTE="BillyRay, post: 1030185, member: 478"]Well "close" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
And you're right. Titles are won with great players. So that brings up another question...why is the SEC completely dominating recruiting these days?? Clearly kids want to go where the competition is, rather than playing in a conference that has the "easiest" path to the title game.
But that's the thing, your original point was attempting to claim the Big XII is the best option since it presents the easiest path to the title game. If that's true, then why hasn't the Big XII made more of a habit of getting teams in national title games?? The facts completely discredit your claim. In fact, they point to the complete opposite since SEC teams, whom have the toughest path to the title game, are the teams routinely winning national titles.[/QUOTE]
You are confusing team with conference.
You want to be on a team with a chance to be in a conference with the most titles? Join the SEC. Arkansas is a conference with the most titles. Good for them.
You want to maximize the chances an individual team wins a championship? That is an entirely different question. Take the Vegas Odds for OU winning a championship when they come out. Then ask anyone who knows how to gamble. Would OUs odds go up or down if they were in the SEC West this year?
Recruiting has many factors. Mizzou is now in the SEC and can't recruit at all. Baylor a small big xii school recruited as well as some big time SEC programs. OU will never be a recruiting juggernaut just because of demographics and geography. But iff OU wouldnt get blown out in bowl games and keep losing to teams with less talent they could recruit better.
And you're right. Titles are won with great players. So that brings up another question...why is the SEC completely dominating recruiting these days?? Clearly kids want to go where the competition is, rather than playing in a conference that has the "easiest" path to the title game.
But that's the thing, your original point was attempting to claim the Big XII is the best option since it presents the easiest path to the title game. If that's true, then why hasn't the Big XII made more of a habit of getting teams in national title games?? The facts completely discredit your claim. In fact, they point to the complete opposite since SEC teams, whom have the toughest path to the title game, are the teams routinely winning national titles.[/QUOTE]
You are confusing team with conference.
You want to be on a team with a chance to be in a conference with the most titles? Join the SEC. Arkansas is a conference with the most titles. Good for them.
You want to maximize the chances an individual team wins a championship? That is an entirely different question. Take the Vegas Odds for OU winning a championship when they come out. Then ask anyone who knows how to gamble. Would OUs odds go up or down if they were in the SEC West this year?
Recruiting has many factors. Mizzou is now in the SEC and can't recruit at all. Baylor a small big xii school recruited as well as some big time SEC programs. OU will never be a recruiting juggernaut just because of demographics and geography. But iff OU wouldnt get blown out in bowl games and keep losing to teams with less talent they could recruit better.
I"m not confusing anything. You said that joining a tougher conference would make it more difficult to get to a national title game. The facts prove otherwise. TEAMS in the SEC aren't having any trouble at all getting to national title games nowadays, despite being in arguable the toughest conference in the country. That little factual nugget completely destroys your original notion that conferences with less competition make for an easier path. If your notion has any validity, then why aren't more teams from the Big XII getting into national title games?? In theory, your point sounds valid, but in reality the opposite is what is happening in the world of football.
And to be honest, sticking with the notion that the Big XII provides the easier path, then relying on some Sooner Magic to prevail in the title game, seems to take the luster off OU winning a national title if that does in fact happen. How else would that look to the rest of the country?? That's basically admitting other teams that were prolly much better than OU, simply didn't make it there due to a higher level of competition in their respective conferences.
The notion that the Big XII provides an easier path literally should bring up the question as to why Bob Stoops hasn't been to more than 4 national title games in his 17 year career??
So, Billy, are you suggesting that OU, the B12 champ, has lost 3 national championship games to SEC (2) and PAC (1) teams is an indication that it's easier to win in the B12 than some other conferences, but then must deal with a more tested and better team for all the marbles? Or, is that just me over thinking what you said? Just joking.
Plenty of TEAMS in the SEC are absolutely having trouble getting to a title game. Ask Georgia. Most of them are having trouble. You are again lumping group of teams or conference and I am talking about 1 team with all other things (like coaching) being equal.
Take FSU from 2 years ago when they went undefeated. If they were in the SEC West playing Bama, LSU, Auburn and maybe a Georgia or a Tennessee don't you think their chances of winning the title go down significantly compared to the ACC schedule? Is there even an argument that their chances dont go down? Does that take luster of them winning the title? Nobody cares who took the easier path. Nobody really cares OU won a title with FSU missing biggest weapon, or Florida won with OU missing biggest weapon, or Alabama won with Texas missing QB. Every team that wins a title has some luck along the way and college football is set up where teams play drasticly different competition.
Why hasnt Bob been to more? Well easier path doesn't mean guaranteed path. Upsets happen. QB injuries may have cost Bob multiple title shots, especially 2007. And some years Stoops himself does under perform.
Adding OU to the SEC would make it harder for any individual SEC team to win a championship even if it increased the chance the conference produced a championship winner.
That first part...how is that any different from teams in the Big XII getting to the championship game?? You say plenty of SEC teams are having trouble. Well, the entire Big XII is having trouble. But quite often, teams in the SEC are able to navigate through those brutal schedules and get to the title game. So like I said, the facts completely nulify the argument you are trying to make in regards to the Big XII being an easier path. If what you are saying is true, then the Big XII would have been to the title game much more often. It sounds as if you are afraid of OU having to play a tougher schedule in the fear of Bob not being able to handle it?
And the 2nd part, I would be more apt to agree with you if the SEC hadn't reeled in 9 of the last 13 national championships. You're right, upsets happen. Injuries happen. And easier in life doesn't always mean a guarantee. But good greif man...9 of the last 13 national titles have gone to the SEC. That goes beyond just "upsets" or "injuries" or "bad luck".
In the end...TEAMS in the SEC are clearly benefiting from playing brutal schedules each year. They are in the position of having a more difficult path to the title game, but they are finding ways to succeed and getting there. On the flip side, the Big XII supposedly has an easier path, yet year after year after year, the teams in the Big XII find ways to keep not get to the title game.
9 of the last 13.....that's all you really need to know to understand that the easier path isn't exactly working out. In the space of those same 13 years, the Big XII has sent 5 teams to national title games. The SEC....they sent 11 teams. So the SEC, while supposedly having a more difficult path, has sent more than double the teams of the "easier path" Big XII.
Again you keep going by teams instead of team. Try this. seasons with playoff/BCS title appearances since 2000
Bama 5
OU 5
LSU 3
Florida 2
Texas 2
Auburn 2
Tennessee 0
Georgia 0
Ole Miss 0
I would bet that OU would have less than 5 if they were in the SEC. Yes SEC has more overall because they have more powerhouse programs. But even powerhouse programs like Georgia have been further away from meaningful postseason play compared to lower tier programs like Okie State, Baylor or TCU.
Okay, so just come out and say that you don't think OU can compete in a strong conference. I don't agree. I believe Bob Stoops and the Sooners can/will perform better in a more difficult conference. That's the whole point. What I mean is that I feel it wouldn't be another 16 years before OU was a national champion again,
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Yes..I'm going by teams in a conference. Not sure how you are wanting to play that down. Teams that are able to navigate tougher schedules and get to title games. Whearas, teams in the Big XII that routinely navigate easier schedules, yet fail in getting to the title game. The early 2000's that you are including, heck yes the Big XII was a dominant conference. But in the last 10 years it's changed drastically. And Tennesse hasn't been relevant since Fulmer left, Georgia never could achieve much more than 10 win seasons with Richt, and Ole Miss hasn't been relevant since the 60's.
But here is the thing...claiming OU would have less than 5 if they were in the SEC means you have literally zero confidence in Bob Stoops, and/or OU football to succeed on that level. It's as if you think OU's only chance to get into a title game is to play a cream puff schedule, then hope they get all the breaks during a real game at the end of the year. Go back and watch the OU-Clemson game and get back to us with how that worked out....
This whole "it's an easier path" reminds me of Art Briles philosophy of scheduling non-conference games.....
At this rate....if OU leaves the Big XII, then let's petition Boren to take OU to the Mountain West or Conference USA. Heck...OU would have a golden path laid to undefeated seasons and national title games every year. I mean it's all about "the easiest path" right??
Stoops hasnt even been able to keep his foot on TCU and Baylor these last few years. I dont know that he would perform any better than what Georgia has done if OU was SEC.
Even with a superior coach OU has to overcome lack of state talent and bad geography to recruit. Look at the 2016 list and four 5 stars live in Georgia. Guess how many live in Oklahoma.
That being said I dont want us to be scared to compete. But I dont think it makes sense to make your road that much tougher than Ohio state, USC, Texas or , Florida Sate. Adding OU to the SEC west would be unfairly tougher for the whole division.
Outside of OU and Texas those teams in the big xii that have the easier schedules and fail in getting to the title are not as good of programs found in the SEC. They wouldnt do any better in the SEC than they do now. And I couldnt care less about those teams. I am a fan of OU, not a whole conference.
I'm not a conference fan either. I'm also not going to be afraid of OU going to the SEC and having to play tougher schedules. But your "easier path" argument appears legit on the surface, but in reality it's the complete opposite. Like I said...under your opinion OU should join Conference USA if they leave the Big XII so their path to the national title game just got easier.
And the SEC just pulled ahead in votes...looks like the side promoting going to the SEC in here is winning over the voters....
Kudos. I respect your candor. Very good post. I may not totally agree but you have made a good argument for how you feel. I like that.
C'mon now...you can't put a cap on intelligence...lol
Well thank you, but the only boards I'll see the insides of are in my cedar coffin when I'm dead....
