OU vs oSu

[SoonerTulsan]

ST,

I went through the top 25 teams and couldn't find one who hadn't slumped other than the select few who play cupcakes. ..and we beat one of them by 23.

Not surprising. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Keep in mind though, if we make the B12 Tourney finals, we'll have played 3 games in 3 or 4 days. Three or four days before the Final Four begins. So as I mentioned in another post, given how taxing that is on players, I'm not sure how important it is to this team to win the B12 or to lose earlier and rest. Perplexing.

 

[bcsoonerfan]

I couldn't care less if we win the Big XII tournament but a lot of NCAA champs have been conference tournament champs tgat got hot and it carried over into the NCAAS.

 

[fortworth4ou2]

Any body care to analyze Buddy's game? Lol

Yes.

FG % (33) 5-15
3's % (33) 2-6
FT % (100) 5-5
Points: 17

Pedestrian for potentially the conference and NCAA's POY.

You must've seen something differently than I.

And, then there's our Starting guard play:

9-32 shooting (28%)
3-12 on their 3's (25 %) - on a night where we shot 45% from the arc (thanks to Spangler and Walker)
Cousins (3-11 FG's, 1-4 on his 3's) and Woodard (1-6 FG's, 0-2 on his 3's).

Overall starting guard offensive performance = suckage. Perhaps, you saw something differently.

Thanks to Spangler's 3 at the halftime buzzer, we held a 3 pt. halftime lead (27-24) as the home team. And, this was against a majorly injured OSU squad.

If you're happy with the above as tourney time nears, then I'm happy for you. Keep your "objective" outlook on lock and load and your smudge-proof crimson blinders on.

As for me, I'm hoping for the best and keeping my fingers crossed. We need major improvement before the tourney. I'm just the messenger. I didn't play and I didn't make up these stats.

Don't you think we need better guard play?

Boomer Sooner

 

[sooner_mike]

Yes.

FG % (33) 5-15
3's % (33) 2-6
FT % (100) 5-5
Points: 17

Pedestrian for potentially the conference and NCAA's POY.

You must've seen something differently than I.

And, then there's our Starting guard play:

9-32 shooting (28%)
3-12 on their 3's (25 %) - on a night where we shot 45% from the arc (thanks to Spangler and Walker)
Cousins (3-11 FG's, 1-4 on his 3's) and Woodard (1-6 FG's, 0-2 on his 3's).

Overall starting guard offensive performance = suckage. Perhaps, you saw something differently.

Thanks to Spangler's 3 at the halftime buzzer, we held a 3 pt. halftime lead (27-24) as the home team. And, this was against a majorly injured OSU squad.

If you're happy with the above as tourney time nears, then I'm happy for you. Keep your "objective" outlook on lock and load and your smudge-proof crimson blinders on.

As for me, I'm hoping for the best and keeping my fingers crossed. We need major improvement before the tourney.

Boomer Sooner

What was the final score again?

 

[fortworth4ou2]

What was the final score again?

Great win as is any win. Do you believe we are tourney ready? Do you see any performance issues at the moment?

I'm sure you don't. Blind allegiance doesn't allow for any concern.

Let's play make-believe!

Boomer Sooner

 

[Plainosooner]

I should be embarrassed to ask this, but ignorance is bliss or so they say. Does the Big12 have a basketball tournament that crowns a champion?

The tourney winner isn't conference champ. But they do get an auto bid to the NCAA tournament.

 

[SoonerTulsan]

Great win as is any win. Do you believe we are tourney ready? Do you see any performance issues at the moment?

I'm sure you don't. Blind allegiance doesn't allow for any concern.

Let's play make-believe!

Boomer Sooner

We are close to tourney ready, if not already. Performance issues? Assume in any sport with any team...always.

Why would you attack Mike about having blind allegiance when it COULD BE TRUE that we are ready for the tourney with performance issues and still be the best team in the nation?? Is it possible you're being a bit too defensive here?

 

[SoonerTulsan]

I couldn't care less if we win the Big XII tournament but a lot of NCAA champs have been conference tournament champs tgat got hot and it carried over into the NCAAS.

I'd guess that more teams that were "upset" in the conference tourney (sans some undefeated or 1-loss champs) have won it, by comparison. I just like what I see. Defense wins championships, and we are pretty good.

 

[fortworth4ou2]

We are close to tourney ready, if not already. Performance issues? Assume in any sport with any team...always.

Why would you attack Mike about having blind allegiance when it COULD BE TRUE that we are ready for the tourney with performance issues and still be the best team in the nation?? Is it possible you're being a bit too defensive here?

Anything's possible. Don't you know I'm really a "Longhorn fan"?

"Attacking" mike? Perhaps, eye of the beholder? I'm sure he's a really great guy but, his posting history might suggest he is considerably lighter on substance and more on "rah-rah". Maybe I'm just hallucinating. Perhaps, it's just dementia or my lack of sleep.

Mike does dodge my questions. I ask questions to draw one out further to gauge their thinking and rationale. But then, I guess you would be his designated answerer or so it would seem.

Things of note (at least to me):

Mike did seem to mock me above with his "analysis of Hield" question/comment. It seems to be carryover from another thread. Maybe, I just misinterpreted him. Wouldn't be a first for me.

He then responds to my question in a post with nothing more than "scoreboard". Seemingly shallow and maybe apprehensive to engage in further discussion. You'd have to ask him.

Btw, how much do you charge to be one's mouthpiece? Be generous. My pockets are not too deep. Some say neither is my thinking.

Just curious. Need to put it in my rolodex for potential future reference.

Boomer Sooner

 

[fortworth4ou2]

We are close to tourney ready, if not already. Performance issues? Assume in any sport with any team...always.

Why would you attack Mike about having blind allegiance when it COULD BE TRUE that we are ready for the tourney with performance issues and still be the best team in the nation?? Is it possible you're being a bit too defensive here?

As for being tourney ready or potentially ready, our starting guards have been in a serious slump for 5-6 consecutive games. Since we are a guard dominated offense, you really apparently are not too concerned?

Boomer Sooner

 

[SoonerTulsan]

Anything's possible. Don't you know I'm really a "Longhorn fan"?

"Attacking" mike? Perhaps, eye of the beholder? I'm sure he's a really great guy but, his posting history might suggest he is considerably lighter on substance and more on "rah-rah". Maybe I'm just hallucinating. Perhaps, it's just dementia or my lack of sleep.

Mike does dodge my questions. I ask questions to draw one out further to gauge their thinking and rationale. But then, I guess you would be his designated answerer or so it would seem.

Things of note (at least to me):

Mike did seem to mock me above with his "analysis of Hield" question/comment. It seems to be carryover from another thread. Maybe, I just misinterpreted him. Wouldn't be a first for me.

He then responds to my question in a post with nothing more than "scoreboard". Seemingly shallow and maybe apprehensive to engage in further discussion. You'd have to ask him.

Btw, how much do you charge to be one's mouthpiece? Be generous. My pockets are not too deep. Some say neither is my thinking.

Just curious. Need to put it in my rolodex for potential future reference.

Boomer Sooner

is it possible you're overreacting again? This team is pretty darn good, as I've said, and like it or not, Buddy's the best player in the nation. This team probably is as well..Enjoy it.

 

[SoonerTulsan]

As for being tourney ready or potentially ready, our starting guards have been in a serious slump for 5-6 consecutive games. Since we are a guard dominated offense, you really apparently are not too concerned?

Boomer Sooner

Not at all. As our big guys go, so we go. But hey, I've been wrong a few times in the past 15 years so I could be again.

 

[fortworth4ou2]

is it possible you're overreacting again? This team is pretty darn good, as I've said, and like it or not, Buddy's the best player in the nation. This team probably is as well..Enjoy it.

I overreact just as good as anyone else. I do, however, believe in trends to a great extent and see some present trends that bother me. I'm just weird that way. Stats don't always portray accuracy but to ignore them or look away from them might not be the best thing to do.

I don't want to be the ostrich with my head buried in the ground as danger looms.

Could you be underreacting to OUr situation?

What concerns me about mike is his apparent refusal to address issues presented either to him or in general. He'll make what appears to be a snide remark to someone and when drawn out for debate, he responds flippantly, imho, providing only a typical, for him, rah-rah answer. Then when pressed on the matter, he seems to slink into the darkness while someone in his clique, imho, defends him. An attorney would be envious of such an arrangement.

How's that for overreacting?

Buddy will be POY most likely. This team is still in contention for #1 in the country. We do have a good team.

Btw, you seem to be evasive, too.

Boomer Sooner

 

[SoonerTulsan]

I think you read WAY too much into things when it's not necessary. I'll defend your right to be critical of the best player in the nation and likely the best team in the nation. Having said that, it seems illogical that I should have to, for hopefully obvious reasons.

I know a pessimist is just an experienced optimist, but dang, seems like a tough way to enjoy OU sports.

 

[fortworth4ou2]

I think you read WAY too much into things when it's not necessary. I'll defend your right to be critical of the best player in the nation and likely the best team in the nation. Having said that, it seems illogical that I should have to, for hopefully obvious reasons.

I know a pessimist is just an experienced optimist, but dang, seems like a tough way to enjoy OU sports.

I'm just analytical. It can be fun. It's always interesting at least to me.

It's challenging and stimulating to pursue what might be the truth. As an educator, perhaps I just come by it honestly. Occasionally, the envelope needs to be pushed. You should see how I analyze my Orioles baseball team. You should see how I analyze scripture. You should see how I analyze my students performances. Keeps my mind active as well as the minds of my students.

Who doesn't read WAY too much into a given situation. When another is evasive, it happens. When trending is observed/perceived, it happens. When relationships run into a snag, it happens. When investigating something, it happens. You are the expert now on "it's not necessary" regarding observations? Really? I always knew you were good but I never imagined just how so.

Buddy is the best player in the nation? Is that a fact you're stating? It would appear so from the above. What metrics are you employing? Are you sure I'm the apparent illogical one? You could be right and I'm just overreacting when it's not necessary. It doesn't seem I have your apparent powers. You ARE good.

What is a "pessimist"? What is an "optimist"? Could bias, misinformation and mental lethargy/apathy tip the scale?

I enjoy OU sports immensely and it's not tough. I enjoy other things much better, though. Just so you know.

Btw, you're still being evasive.

Boomer Sooner

 

[SoonerTulsan]

I'm just analytical. It can be fun. It's always interesting at least to me.

It's challenging and stimulating to pursue what might be the truth. As an educator, perhaps I just come by it honestly. Occasionally, the envelope needs to be pushed. You should see how I analyze my Orioles baseball team. You should see how I analyze scripture. You should see how I analyze my students performances. Keeps my mind active as well as the minds of my students.

Who doesn't read WAY too much into a given situation. When another is evasive, it happens. When trending is observed/perceived, it happens. When relationships run into a snag, it happens. When investigating something, it happens. You are the expert now on "it's not necessary" regarding observations? Really? I always knew you were good but I never imagined just how so.

Buddy is the best player in the nation? Is that a fact you're stating? It would appear so from the above. What metrics are you employing? Are you sure I'm the apparent illogical one? You could be right and I'm just overreacting when it's not necessary. It doesn't seem I have your apparent powers. You ARE good.

What is a "pessimist"? What is an "optimist"? Could bias, misinformation and mental lethargy/apathy tip the scale?

I enjoy OU sports immensely and it's not tough. I enjoy other things much better, though. Just so you know.

Btw, you're still being evasive.

Boomer Sooner

Sometimes we're not capable of seeing "the truth". The challenge is being able to recognize it. And you already know passive/aggressive jabs and insults don't phase me, but I'll defend your right to do so. This team is good, and appear to be ready for a strong finish. Hopefully you'll have an opportunity to say, "yes, we won the NC, but we played poorly." I think then we'll both be happy.

 

[MdSooner#1]

What was the final score again?

But to be honest, Buddy needed a 30 pt night against the 2nd worst team in the conf to solidify his status as POY candidate. IMO

 

[sooner_mike]

Anything's possible. Don't you know I'm really a "Longhorn fan"?

"Attacking" mike? Perhaps, eye of the beholder? I'm sure he's a really great guy but, his posting history might suggest he is considerably lighter on substance and more on "rah-rah". Maybe I'm just hallucinating. Perhaps, it's just dementia or my lack of sleep.

Mike does dodge my questions. I ask questions to draw one out further to gauge their thinking and rationale. But then, I guess you would be his designated answerer or so it would seem.

Things of note (at least to me):

Mike did seem to mock me above with his "analysis of Hield" question/comment. It seems to be carryover from another thread. Maybe, I just misinterpreted him. Wouldn't be a first for me.

He then responds to my question in a post with nothing more than "scoreboard". Seemingly shallow and maybe apprehensive to engage in further discussion. You'd have to ask him.

Btw, how much do you charge to be one's mouthpiece? Be generous. My pockets are not too deep. Some say neither is my thinking.

Just curious. Need to put it in my rolodex for potential future reference.

Boomer Sooner

Fortworth, I honestly don't believe I need several paragraphs to get my point across. See it doesn't matter how I explain my point, although you may read it you will never change your way of thinking. All one has to do is read further into your posts after this one here to see, you enjoy being pessimistic. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

See I understand the game of Basketball, Golf, Football, and even Baseball. Basketball Golf and Baseball have a lot in common. What I mean by that is all require talent but more importantly mental prep as well. In all 3 sports their can be an off day as well as a day everthing goes right.

I have see the entire body of work not just the bad games or poor play..... A few poor games wouldn't make a player all the sudden not worthy of a poy honor that he has shown in several games to be.

Basketball ball is a team game as well and the team won so that trumps all, all other debates mean nothimg just.

This is one of our best BB teams in a long time. As for me I'm going to enjoy this season.

 

[sooner_mike]

But to be honest, Buddy needed a 30 pt night against the 2nd worst team in the conf to solidify his status as POY candidate. IMO

No he didn't, he already accomplished this in a loss to KU. And the many games before that.

 

[fortworth4ou2]

Sometimes we're not capable of seeing "the truth". The challenge is being able to recognize it. And you already know passive/aggressive jabs and insults don't phase me, but I'll defend your right to do so. This team is good, and appear to be ready for a strong finish. Hopefully you'll have an opportunity to say, "yes, we won the NC, but we played poorly." I think then we'll both be happy.

The challenge is not so much in recognizing truth as it can often be personal, fickle and arbitrary. It's, imho, the pursuit of it that is the real quest.

Some just avoid what may be the truth as a means of coping.

A PA approach can be a strong tool in gathering information and furthering a discussion. We all use it to a degree. Sometimes intentionally when other measures appear less likely to achieve a desired goal. You seem to treat it unfavorably. Perhaps, rightly so. Who knows?

We have Baylor and TCU left. Very winnable games. As good as we are, it just takes one unfortunate stumble against what might be a lesser team to end our tourney hopes.

I would love for us to win the NC. Win or lose, though, I'll still be a blessed and happy man. Hope you will be too.

Good night.

Boomer Sooner

 

[MdSooner#1]

No he didn't, he already accomplished this in a loss to KU. And the many games before that.

The other candidates also have pretty good resumes. And 17 points AT home against a bad team won't win him many votes East of the Mississippi.


We will just have to disagree. But Buddy's performance against OSU needed to be a little better.

 

[fortworth4ou2]

Fortworth, I honestly don't believe I need several paragraphs to get my point across. See it doesn't matter how I explain my point, although you may read it you will never change your way of thinking. All one has to do is read further into your posts after this one here to see, you enjoy being pessimistic. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

See I understand the game of Basketball, Golf, Football, and even Baseball. Basketball Golf and Baseball have a lot in common. What I mean by that is all require talent but more importantly mental prep as well. In all 3 sports their can be an off day as well as a day everthing goes right.

I have see the entire body of work not just the bad games or poor play..... A few poor games wouldn't make a player all the sudden not worthy of a poy honor that he has shown in several games to be.

Basketball ball is a team game as well and the team won so that trumps all, all other debates mean nothimg just.

This is one of our best BB teams in a long time. As for me I'm going to enjoy this season.

Thanks for responding.

No one asked you for several paragraphs as an explanation of your comment. Your rationale is requested, though. It's not required but goes a long way to understanding your way of thinking.

Telling me I'm not flexible in my thinking is certainly the pot calling the kettle black. Convince me I'm off base in my logic and I'm very capable of adjusting and there is a precedent for such. Just ask Tulsan. If you wish to observe rigidity in thinking, you have no further to go than, I believe, my Frustrations with Buddy Hield thread in which you made only one comment. Reread it please. I believe you posted nothing will change your mind.

I suppose every forum needs a rah-rah guy and you seem to fill the bill here. Not necessarily a problem until you get flippant with someone whom you disagree with without a much needed explanation. That's what I refer to as a hit and run post. Others call it baiting.

How would you know if I am being "pessimistic". What does that really mean anyway? Who let you be the judge and jury on such a judgment? One man's "pessimism" (whatever that means) just might be another's insightfulness. Being summarily dismissive of an apparent objective analysis and its associated interpretations can sometimes lead to ignorance and arrogance - intentional or otherwise - based on one's bias and propensity for acceptance/inclusion. It's like flipping someone off without supportive input. You won't offend me by shooting holes in my logic. Make me a convert.

Mike, imho, we've not been witnessing just an "off" day with our BB team. We've seen a 3 guard full blown half court slump in the last 5-6 consecutive games in my analysis. I don't make up the numbers. They're there for anyone to see. Our offense is based on our guards half court play supplemented by our defense creating solid transitional opportunities for them and others. Our recent half court play is not tourney ready, imho, and is based on empirical data. This puts enormous pressure on our defensive effort to achieve at a consistent optimum level that is realistically and most likely unsustainable.

Are you suggesting that I might believe Hield is not a POY candidate? I've been consistent in posting just the opposite in three separate threads. You've apparently made up your mind I am anti-Hield because of some critical comments. They obviously run counter to yours. He's a very, very good player and understandably special to us. There are parts of his game that I believe are detrimental to our mission and I've reported on those. If you disagree, counter my specifics with your own so everyone can be edified. That's all I've ever asked.

Of course, winning trumps losing. The goal, though, is always improvement and betterment so that winning becomes continued reality. When an area of play falls short, strategic adjustments need to be made to further that reality. At the present, it doesn't seem all the Legos are securely connecting. IMHO, that needs immediate attention or our reality may not be the victory we seek.

Just saying.

Boomer Sooner

 

[bcsoonerfan]

It was fun watching us shoot nearly 50% from 3 for half the season, but reality was we were gonna cool off. Defense is going to be our bread and butter in chase of a title. It seems our guards set the bar so high that some can't enjoy a blow out win unless we don't miss a shot.

It's rare that we have a title contending basketball team...do try to enjoy it.

 

[sooner_mike]

Thanks for responding.

No one asked you for several paragraphs as an explanation of your comment. Your rationale is requested, though. It's not required but goes a long way to understanding your way of thinking.

Telling me I'm not flexible in my thinking is certainly the pot calling the kettle black. Convince me I'm off base in my logic and I'm very capable of adjusting and there is a precedent for such. Just ask Tulsan. If you wish to observe rigidity in thinking, you have no further to go than, I believe, my Frustrations with Buddy Hield thread in which you made only one comment. Reread it please. I believe you posted nothing will change your mind.

I suppose every forum needs a rah-rah guy and you seem to fill the bill here. Not necessarily a problem until you get flippant with someone whom you disagree with without a much needed explanation. That's what I refer to as a hit and run post. Others call it baiting.

How would you know if I am being "pessimistic". What does that really mean anyway? Who let you be the judge and jury on such a judgment? One man's "pessimism" (whatever that means) just might be another's insightfulness. Being summarily dismissive of an apparent objective analysis and its associated interpretations can sometimes lead to ignorance and arrogance - intentional or otherwise - based on one's bias and propensity for acceptance/inclusion. It's like flipping someone off without supportive input. You won't offend me by shooting holes in my logic. Make me a convert.

Mike, imho, we've not been witnessing just an "off" day with our BB team. We've seen a 3 guard full blown half court slump in the last 5-6 consecutive games in my analysis. I don't make up the numbers. They're there for anyone to see. Our offense is based on our guards half court play supplemented by our defense creating solid transitional opportunities for them and others. Our recent half court play is not tourney ready, imho, and is based on empirical data. This puts enormous pressure on our defensive effort to achieve at a consistent optimum level that is realistically and most likely unsustainable.

Are you suggesting that I might believe Hield is not a POY candidate? I've been consistent in posting just the opposite in three separate threads. You've apparently made up your mind I am anti-Hield because of some critical comments. They obviously run counter to yours. He's a very, very good player and understandably special to us. There are parts of his game that I believe are detrimental to our mission and I've reported on those. If you disagree, counter my specifics with your own so everyone can be edified. That's all I've ever asked.

Of course, winning trumps losing. The goal, though, is always improvement and betterment so that winning becomes continued reality. When an area of play falls short, strategic adjustments need to be made to further that reality. At the present, it doesn't seem all the Legos are securely connecting. IMHO, that needs immediate attention or our reality may not be the victory we seek.

Just saying.

Boomer Sooner

Well if you think about it we haven't had a lot to talk about over the last decade or so in Basketball. This team is as good as any in the country if not the best team. Just not disappointed in the season so far.

Yes players do slump, Look at KD he is averaging 12 15 points below his career average. Do you think he all the sudden for got how to shoot? Simply put he is in a slump, beck even Westbrook is shooting below his average as well......these guys are proven pros. Basketball is just as much a mental as golf is. With Buddy continuing to live in the gym he will continue to get better, physically and mentally. I'm for enjoying this team and looking forward to beating the Longhorns Saturday.

 

[SoonerTulsan]

"Mike, imho, we've not been witnessing just an "off" day with our BB team. We've seen a 3 guard full blown half court slump in the last 5-6 consecutive games in my analysis. I don't make up the numbers. They're there for anyone to see. Our offense is based on our guards half court play supplemented by our defense creating solid transitional opportunities for them and others. Our recent half court play is not tourney ready, imho, and is based on empirical data. This puts enormous pressure on our defensive effort to achieve at a consistent optimum level that is realistically and most likely unsustainable."

This is where you and disagree. The key to our offense AND our half court play is our big guys in the paint being a scoring threat. As we've seen the past 2 games when we've come out of our slump, they have contributed very notably. The numbers are there for anyone to see. . THEY are the key to our offense. However, just like in football, DEFENSE wins championships. We are are ready for a deep run if our bigs keep it up.