Is OU done winning national titles?

[CTOkie]

I know it sounds far fetched, but 19 years, 0-7 when given the opportunity. The landscape of football is changing and OU doesn't appear to be a trailblazer with the changes.

In 1995, Nebraska was the biggest, baddest, and best football program in America, and now, they're irrelevant. No one saw that coming.

OU has been tremendously successful for the last two decades, but winning national titles and kicking butt is the standard. OU has failed miserably on meeting the standard.

Where can OU gets it's heart back? By heart, I mean Defense. Real defense that literally makes opponents quit.

If Lincoln can be the best offensive coach, and bring in great offensive talent. Then, the opposite side of the ball is possible.
What will it take for Grinch to close the gap?

I'm running out of years on this sweet Earth.

Bawlz, at 71, I share your concern.....and I'm seeing that OU has, in recent years, painted itself into a corner by its extreme prioritization of high scoring offenses while seemingly ignoring defensive football. Having to score 40, 50 and 60 points to win games is not good football and it has happened too many times over the past decade.
This situation will be hard for Grinch or ANY defensive coach to correct. It will not only take time for Grinch to recruit HIS kind of players (which he may have already started doing if this 2020 haul is any indication), but it will also require OU playing better defensively with the talent at hand so that Grinch can sell his product to recruits. Grinch stands to be known as OU's greatest assistant coach if he can turn this thing around fairly soon.
The loss to LSU was made even worse by the 63 points given up. LSU is a better team, but no Oklahoma team should ever lose the way it did, especially in a bowl game and especially with a possible championship on the line.
Until Grinch can work some Sooner Magic, all we will continue to have is more Texas trashing and a few more meaningless conference titles.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Timely thread. Eleven years ago today I posted this on my Facebook page... before a game we lost.

January 8th, 2009
OU has played in 4 of the last 8 National Title games and taken home one Crystal Ball. Not many teams can say they have even played in one!

 

[iasooner1]

We've gone through droughts before and come back strong, more than once.

 

[12375CAT]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I don't think we'll ever get enough elite defensive players as long as we're in the big 12. (I didn't capitalize big for a reason). A move to the SEC is the only way we'd get a serious look from the kind of talent we need to compete with the Alabamas and Clemsons on a regular basis. Some of those kids might actually come play at Oklahoma if they knew they were going to play a significant number of games within driving distance of their families.

aTm joining the $EC is allowing the $EC to pry loose top players from (the state of) Texas

 

[Plainosooner]

I had this very discussion with a former OU player ... in 1997. Middle of Blake's 2nd year. We were light years then, behind where we are now. And we won a natty three years after we'd agreed that it might not be possible.

Things are very different now. Coaches will always mean a lot. But no huddle offenses, and feigning that, make winning and losing more on the players than ever before. It means that better athletes make more difference than they ever have, though they've always been what it's really about.

It might be less likely. But OU will stay around the top long enough to kick the door in once again, at some near future time. We'll need some breaks, and they've been in shortage recently.

It would be really nice to play a playoff games will all of OUr top studs available. That hasn't happened since 2000.

 

[Zgeo]

Kyler Murray plus a defense would have meant a Natty

Baker plus a defense would have meant a Natty

We are not far off ....but we are still thin at : DT, edge rusher, MLB, Nickel, Safeties.....I think Rattler will be another great OU QB M so we have a chance ...but defense needs players....

I am encouraged by the huuuge improvement in Parnell Motley over the course of the past season, and Brown is doing very well also....at least the CBs improved during 2019..., no other position did on defense or offense.....place kicker was a huuuuge improvement and also and is needed for a playoff run...we got that.,.

 

[JConXtsy]

I agree. We aren't that far off. We're 1 or 2 impact defensive players away from playing ball with anyone.

 

[OUMarvelOUsMarvin]

I know it sounds far fetched, but 19 years, 0-7 when given the opportunity. The landscape of football is changing and OU doesn't appear to be a trailblazer with the changes.

In 1995, Nebraska was the biggest, baddest, and best football program in America, and now, they're irrelevant. No one saw that coming.

OU has been tremendously successful for the last two decades, but winning national titles and kicking butt is the standard. OU has failed miserably on meeting the standard.

Where can OU gets it's heart back? By heart, I mean Defense. Real defense that literally makes opponents quit.

If Lincoln can be the best offensive coach, and bring in great offensive talent. Then, the opposite side of the ball is possible.
What will it take for Grinch to close the gap?

I'm running out of years on this sweet Earth.

________________________________
I love all of my Sooner brethren dearly, but for GAWG'S SAKE !!!! Since 1949-1990 OU was either in direct position or one loss away in our final game from winning 19 additional MNCs. (I started following in 1954) You can count 'em since 2001.

Since 2000 the 'outright' champions have been Clemson-2, Bama-5, tOSU-2, FSU-1, Auburn-1, Florida-2, LSU-1, Texas-1, USC-1, Miami-1, Oklahoma-1. Where is Notre Dame, Penn St., Michigan, Tennessee, or Nebraska? Reckon they'll ever win another this century?

AP NATIONWIDE VOTERS ALL TIME D-1-A COLLEGE FOOTBALL PROGRAMS 1935-1918

01. OKLAHOMA-1182 POINTS
02. Alabama...…..1062
03. tOSU…..........1052
04. Michigan..........985
05. Notre Dame.....975
06. USC.................832
07. Texas...............789
08. Nebraska.........783
09. Penn St............694
10. Tennessee.......686
11. LSU..................653
12. Georgia............591
13. Auburn.............572
14. FSU.................563
15. Miami...............530

 

[bullmarket]

Our starting quarterback in 2020

 

[CTOkie]

I agree. We aren't that far off. We're 1 or 2 impact defensive players away from playing ball with anyone.

I disagree.
Of the returning players from the 2019 roster, none will be around when OU ever becomes formidable enough on defense to compete with the likes of Clemson and LSU.
My hope is that the 2020 newcomers are the first positive step forward.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

The first positive step was the firing of Mike Stoops.
The second postivie step was the hiring of Grinch.
The third positive step was the improvement we witnessed in the defense.
The fourth positive step as not occurred yet. Some think that is was the 2019 & now 2020 recruiting class. We'll see. But I too think we are only a few key players away. I personally do not look at the LSU loss as a barometer of the future. Simply put, we were & are better than that score. We were fortunate to even make the playoffs. And for those that think the B12 Championships are meaningless... pooof. Go ask Texas fans what it's like watching your rival win them year after year after year after year... well you get my point. There is a tremendous amount of hardwork that this team displays year in and year out... please don't discount the accomplishments of Sooner football strictly on your selfishness due to age. It isn't becoming.

 

[CTOkie]

OU's 2019 defensive improvement was marginal, no dramatic, as it played a weak non-conference schedule then a weak Big 12 schedule which saw OU yield 48 points in its loss to KSU and narrow wins over Texas, Baylor, Iowa State and TCU.
And the 63-28 loss to LSU....while it was (hopefully) not "a barometer of the future" or based upon "selfishness due to age" (?)....did reveal that Grinch has a lot of work to do, which I see as coming from his future recruits much more than the talent on hand. Grinch inherited a big problem and the results of his work won't be seen for 2-3 more years. OU is more than just a few players away from having a championship defense that can contain teams of playoff caliber.
Playing Tennessee at home in the second game will be challenging against a much improved Tennessee team that owns a 6 game winning streak. Then there is Army at West Point which doesn't appear to be nearly as tough as the team Army had in 2018....then there's Baylor at home the week before Texas. So OU faces two teams in the first 4 games prior to Texas that will be very tough and the defense needs to carry its load while OU's young quarterback and its erratic OL try get going early on.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

They played the same Big 12 teams...
2018 #114th ranked defense
2019 #28th ranked defense
These are statistical facts. Anything more and anything less is is conjecture, hearesay, hoping and/or opinion

 

[larwilli]

In the 9 Big 12 games last year the OU defense ranked last out of 10 teams in points allowed and total yards. This year the OU defense ranked 3rd in points allowed and 1st in total yards. You can argue the Big 12 offenses were not as good this year but the improvement of the defense was still significant for year one with Grinch.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

In the 9 Big 12 games last year the OU defense ranked last out of 10 teams in points allowed and total yards. This year the OU defense ranked 3rd in points allowed and 1st in total yards. You can argue the Big 12 offenses were not as good this year but the improvement of the defense was still significant for year one with Grinch.

This.

 

[CTOkie]

Sure there was some improvement on defense as OU gave up 27 points per game in 2019 as opposed to 33 points per game in 2018. But there was still the 48 points in losing to KSU and narrow high scoring escapes against ISU and Baylor along with good defensive efforts against TCU, OSU and Texas.
My point is that none of OU's 2019 defensive body of work, however much it improved from the year before, could stay on the field with LSU. It simply wasn't good enough to survive the CFB playoffs for the third straight year.
54 points to Georgia in 2017, 45 to Alabama in 2018 and 63 points to LSU in 2019 during the last three years of the CFB playoffs. These scores do not reflect any conjecture, hearsay or opinion....only bad defense and cold, hard reality.
We all agree there was a certain degree of improvement and some of that won three games. There just was not nearly enough when it mattered most....once again.

 

[OUnabomber]

They played the same Big 12 teams...
2018 #114th ranked defense
2019 #28th ranked defense
These are statistical facts. Anything more and anything less is is conjecture, hearesay, hoping and/or opinion

You do realize teams change from year to year right? The big 12 only won 1 bowl game this season. They were pathetic

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Like the playoff game with LSU, if you take away Perkins, Delarrin Turner Yell & Radley Hiles from the full season, toss in JMT for half the season, we'd most likely have a defense ranked at or near #75-100 by season's end. But we didn't. We were shooting blanks in that playoff game. It was not a representation of the season's peformance and/or ranking. I think most knowledgeable fans that follow OU football understand this. We were out matched that game, there's no doubt. But as the season is concerned, it's not as bad as the score of that playoff game makes it appear.

 

[soonermade]

You do realize teams change from year to year right? The big 12 only won 1 bowl game this season. They were pathetic

The SEC was 8-2 in bowl games, every other conference except the AAC (4-3) had a losing record. It was the SEC and everyone else.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Bag men. They have it going on.

 

[Plainosooner]

When l looked at the playoff game, the big gap was up front on both sides. OUr Oline took a large step back this season. There were injuries. But the big issue was that guys we recruited to play tackle were moved to guard.

And we weren't great at guard. And we sucked at tackle. Young guys will mature. But so far, the young guys were recruited to play tackle are on the depth chart at guard.

We kind of lucked into great tackles before. Orlando was the best Oline player at OU in this century. He was headed elsewhere until UTenn suddenly backed away. Bobby Joe Evans' dad played hoops at OU.

Defense is worse. We weren't nationally great on the DLine, but very solid in '19. Most graduated. One is in the portal. And l fear that Grinch's defensive philosophy will hurt us in DL recruiting.

Big guys like to play like big guys. Sprinting to the ball every snap isn't a big incentive in DL recruiting. We'll see.

I did enjoy the real defensive improvement in 2019. But defensive upgrades in the front 7 personnel in 2020 likely aren't going to happen. The new philosophy on D might help us be better with a year under that. But as we all seem to agree, it IS about personnel.

 

[Soonerheart]

The talk about OU leaving the Big 12 is still increasing at least among some Norman based media and among OU fans. It’s as strong as ever.

The new contracts of the Big Ten and SEC are going to offer OU tens of millions more than they could ever make in the Big 12.

IMHO the best strategic move is the Big Ten...The path to the playoffs is not as hard and it would offer OU academic advantages that the SEC does not offer. I also do not believe OU would need to cheat like crazy just to have winning seasons.

 

[Oklabama]

The talk about OU leaving the Big 12 is still increasing at least among some Norman based media and among OU fans. It’s as strong as ever.

The new contracts of the Big Ten and SEC are going to offer OU tens of millions more than they could ever make in the Big 12.

IMHO the best strategic move is the Big Ten...The path to the playoffs is not as hard and it would offer OU academic advantages that the SEC does not offer. I also do not believe OU would need to cheat like crazy just to have winning seasons.

I’d be pleased with either conference or even the ACC over the PAC as long as our games are televised. Too many late starts when playing on the west coast would be a bummer but I’d like the match ups.

 

[washingtonsooner]

I know it sounds far fetched, but 19 years, 0-7 when given the opportunity. The landscape of football is changing and OU doesn't appear to be a trailblazer with the changes.

In 1995, Nebraska was the biggest, baddest, and best football program in America, and now, they're irrelevant. No one saw that coming.

OU has been tremendously successful for the last two decades, but winning national titles and kicking butt is the standard. OU has failed miserably on meeting the standard.

Where can OU gets it's heart back? By heart, I mean Defense. Real defense that literally makes opponents quit.

If Lincoln can be the best offensive coach, and bring in great offensive talent. Then, the opposite side of the ball is possible.
What will it take for Grinch to close the gap?

I'm running out of years on this sweet Earth.

Nope. Men’s and Women gymnastics teams could win 2 this Spring. WS

 

[owenfieldreams]

I'd rate Trent Williams better than Orlando Brown and Lane Johnson ain't far behind. We need to be in the SEC!

 

[OUnabomber]

I'd rate Trent Williams better than Orlando Brown and Lane Johnson ain't far behind. We need to be in the SEC!

I've never understood why people think being in the SEC would help OU so much. You really want to play Bama, LSU, Georgia, Florida, and Auburn? Seems to me we have done just fine as far as making it the playoffs goes. We should have beaten Georgia a few years ago and made it to the title game so I honestly don't think we are that far off. We will break through eventually.

 

[owenfieldreams]

I absolutely want to play those teams. I'm a season ticket holder. When I sit in my seats for a Big 12 conference home game and then compare that atmosphere with a home game vs Tennessee, Florida State, NOTRE DAME, Ohio State just to name a few I've attended, there is no comparison. There is a reason our 2 largest home crowds have been vs N.D. and Ohio State. I'm already looking forward to the VOLS this fall.If we can't compete with these types of teams then we need to drop football as a varsity sport.

 

[OUnabomber]

I absolutely want to play those teams. I'm a season ticket holder. When I sit in my seats for a Big 12 conference home game and then compare that atmosphere with a home game vs Tennessee, Florida State, NOTRE DAME, Ohio State just to name a few I've attended, there is no comparison. There is a reason our 2 largest home crowds have been vs N.D. and Ohio State. I'm already looking forward to the VOLS this fall.If we can't compete with these types of teams then we need to drop football as a varsity sport.

Ya playing those teams once a year is great, but how would playing all those teams every year help OU? It would be a much tougher schedule We have managed to go to the playoffs the last 4 years being in the big 12 and I'm just not seeing how being in the SEC would be such a great thing. Just schedule 1 big nonconference game per season, which we for the most part have been doing, and win the big 12 and we are in.

 

[owenfieldreams]

What good does being "in" do when we get demolished and are just as suddenly "out"? I would rather play an SEC west conference schedule and come in 2nd or 3rd but have a chance at an NC then win back to back to back championships in a weak conference. Being in the SEC means we are going up against the best. Recruits want to play against the best on the biggest stage.

 

[CTOkie]

What good does being "in" do when we get demolished and are just as suddenly "out"? I would rather play an SEC west conference schedule and come in 2nd or 3rd but have a chance at an NC then win back to back to back championships in a weak conference. Being in the SEC means we are going up against the best. Recruits want to play against the best on the biggest stage.

Joining the SEC is good for recruiting and for OU to have better talent and facing better competition every year would attract more elite high school kids.
This scenario, in my opinion, could be a boost to OU. Playing in the best conference, recruiting all over the southeast as well as Texas, enhancing OU's coast-to-coast recruiting and renewing the rivalry with ATM while keeping the Texas rivalry would really add excitement for OU fans. There would be at least six marque games per season, possibly seven if a top non-conference team is scheduled.

 

[OUnabomber]

What good does being "in" do when we get demolished and are just as suddenly "out"? I would rather play an SEC west conference schedule and come in 2nd or 3rd but have a chance at an NC then win back to back to back championships in a weak conference. Being in the SEC means we are going up against the best. Recruits want to play against the best on the biggest stage.

Neither Clemson nor Ohio state are in the SEC and seem to be doing fine. Teams like OU, USC, and ND can recruit anywhere in the country and don't need to be in the SEC. Things will turn eventually and we will break through with a NC. We should have had one with Mayfield but things just didn't go our way against Georgia.

 

[Brentwood Sooner]

Yes until the DL gets a lot better

 

[SchmigNasty]

The GOR negotiation comes up in what, 3-4 years. That is the key point at which we have to make a decision. If we stay in the Big 12 as currently configured after the GOR is renewed we very well could have seen our last NC. The fundamental question is: are you satisfied with winning a mediocre conference and making the playoffs but never winning the NC or would you be willing to finish 2nd, 3rd, or 4th in the SEC to occasionally be good enough to win it all. I disagree that being in the SEC would not improve our recruiting, especially on the D side of the ball. The very best and deepest front 7 talent is in the SE. If we were in the SEC we would be able to sell the showcase aspect of playing against the best.

in 3-4 years we should have 8 or 9 straight conf. championships? time to move on...

 

[SchmigNasty]

The first positive step was the firing of Mike Stoops.
The second postivie step was the hiring of Grinch.
The third positive step was the improvement we witnessed in the defense.
The fourth positive step as not occurred yet. Some think that is was the 2019 & now 2020 recruiting class. We'll see. But I too think we are only a few key players away. I personally do not look at the LSU loss as a barometer of the future. Simply put, we were & are better than that score. We were fortunate to even make the playoffs. And for those that think the B12 Championships are meaningless... pooof. Go ask Texas fans what it's like watching your rival win them year after year after year after year... well you get my point. There is a tremendous amount of hardwork that this team displays year in and year out... please don't discount the accomplishments of Sooner football strictly on your selfishness due to age. It isn't becoming.

if we get that PI Call on 3rd down, who knows what could have happened? If the score is 14-14 at the end of the first, it would be a different ballgame. A perkins pass rush, and turner-yell over the top would have helped. I'm not saying OU would have won the game, but it might have been a lot closer.

 

[owenfieldreams]

Ohio State is in the 2nd best conference, has a long history of success, and is the only major program in talent rich Ohio. Clemson has a coach who has exploited his geographic location to states like Georgia and Florida, developed a culture that many extolling, and has a beautiful campus and fan base to sell.

 

[Soonerheart]

Neither Clemson nor Ohio state are in the SEC and seem to be doing fine. Teams like OU, USC, and ND can recruit anywhere in the country and don't need to be in the SEC. Things will turn eventually and we will break through with a NC. We should have had one with Mayfield but things just didn't go our way against Georgia.

That is correct but OU would have a much less difficult path to the playoffs if we were in the Big 10 compared to the SEC and OU would make a lot more money in the Big 10 compared to the Big 12.

OU needs this money for future facilities improvements and to pay down debt and ticket cost.

 

[OUnabomber]

That is correct but OU would have a much less difficult path to the playoffs if we were in the Big 10 compared to the SEC and OU would make a lot more money in the Big 10 compared to the Big 12.

OU needs this money for future facilities improvements and to pay down debt and ticket cost.

We have been to the playoffs the last 4 years in a row. Not to mention a change to another conference would most likely mean the end of the RRR? You really want that? I don't. I think we better stay where we are at and eventually bring in a couple of other high quality schools.

 

[owenfieldreams]

We played Texas OOC for the majority of the rivalry. Frankly, with both now in the same conference thusly creating a possibility of a second game, I think it diminishes the game in Oct.

 

[OUnabomber]

We played Texas OOC for the majority of the rivalry. Frankly, with both now in the same conference thusly creating a possibility of a second game, I think it diminishes the game in Oct.

Well we saw what happened with the Nebraska rivalry. We might play TX out of conference, but then again we may not and that would be a travesty. Next year the big 12 should be a pretty strong conference with OU, TX, and OSU all having a change to be very good. There will also most likely be a couple of other surprise teams.

 

[owenfieldreams]

Being very good in the Big 12 compared to being very good in the SEC is a totally different ballgame.