For NC inspirations, we have to change the culture of our Conference

[Forneysooner]

Hi everyone,

I love to read the posts on this message board, and others, and get a lot of laughs doing so, I have to say. I have been a Sooner fan for over 45 years, and love my Sooners, but people we have to be realistic.

I have been arguing this point to my Longhorn buddy for several years now. It's not so much the players and coaches (but I have to take exception to some of LR's post game comments about the problem not being up front in the OL), the problem is this conference we are in is predominately a spread option run conference. Baylor and TCU ruined this conference, some years ago, implementing their schemes with 2 and 3 star offensive and defensive line talent, adding 3 and 4 star in the skill positions, using laterally the entire field. Consequently, to keep up, other schools have had to do the same to keep up. You build your teams to compete and win your conference first, it's just that simple. People, teams in this conference recruit and build their teams from the outside to the inside. Recruiting has suffered because for those highly sought after OL and DL prospects, for the most part, they go outside the conference. Have you noticed, OU isn't a shoe-in to get any of the highly sought after OL and DL in our own state anymore? Yea, we will get the occasional low 4 star DL kid, or high 3 star OL kid, but nothing consistent at a high level. We don't have a huge problem getting 4 and 5 star kids in the skill position areas. We will always get those kids. OU attracts those kind of players.

I'm sure these kids that Baylor, Texas, and OU gets now are good kids and quality players, but only for these schemes. When OU offers a kid that has a few other offers from SW Missouri State, Utah State, BYU, does it not bother you? Does Ohio State, Clemson, Alabama, Florida State offer scholarships to kids being recruited by Indiana, Vanderbilt, BC and Louisville? For the most part, no. Those big time power five schools build their teams from the inside out. Why? Because they can normally control your spread option teams, PHYSICALLY

Listen to Mike Stoops PG press conference remarks, they are spot on. Obviously Losing Charles Walker was a big blow, and for a reason. We have for the most part, big problems with teams like Clemson, because we are not built to compete with those schools. Top five out of conference teams, when it comes to the playoffs and NC games, are always going to dominate our conference teams, until we change the culture. We are going to have to be content winning a conference championship until collectively, as a conference, we start building our teams again from the inside .

Sorry for the long rant,
Happy New year everybody!

 

[WP76]

Agree with these points.

After watching yesterday's game and at the risk of going on the all-cliché team here goes. No matter how advanced your schemes, two things seem to never change in football (1) games are won and lost on the lines and (2) the team with the better players will win most of the time. Clemson's lines were clearly better than ours on both sides of the ball and Clemson, top to bottom, has better players than we do.

After some of the sting is wears off today, I think most of us realize we still had a far better season than any of us had the right to expect after last year. We were fortunate concerning injuries and not facing Baylor, TCU, or OSU at full strength helped us win a conference championship. Certainly, winning the conference (even a relatively weak one like the Big 12) is a nice accomplishment.

Our current situation reminds me of Oklahoma in the 1960s. We thought we were pretty good but when we played Notre Dame, we got rolled pretty badly under circumstances that were eerily similar to what we saw yesterday. For most of Stoops' tenure, we've copied the Kansas State approach e.g. recruit a few blue chippers, find some diamonds in the rough, and coach them up. It's obvious that approach is fine but it will only take us so far. Our ceiling is exposed when we play the USCs and Clemsons of the world. I know we beat Alabama two years ago but those types of wins are the exception rather than the rule under this coaching staff. Our record in top tier bowls reinforces that observation. We've beaten two elite teams in FSU and Bama but our other two BCS wins were against teams with less talented squads in Washington State and Connecticut.

The question is where do Bob and his coaching staff go from here? After last year, Stoops showed he was willing to make some hard choices and shook up his coaching staff to include firing his offensive coordinator. He now has to decide if that's good enough (not bad but not elite either) or does he take on the big boys of recruiting and upgrade the talent on our roster? If the 2016 list of commits is any indication, there's not much immediate help in sight as we'll have a class ranked somewhere in the 20s nationally. Until Bob "ups his game" on the recruiting trail, we've gone about as far as we're going to go.

 

[Oklabama]

This tread is worthy of discussion. Good points by each poster. But rather than changing our culture as suggested, I'd opt for changing our conference and perhaps adopting the same culture as in joining the SEC, for example. The B12 has become a lot like the old AFC of the 1960's.

 

[WP76]

This tread is worthy of discussion. Good points by each poster.

Thanks. There's a saying that "good is the enemy of great" and "good" is the position in which we find ourselves now and for the past decade or so.

 

[Forneysooner]

I don't have a problem with getting out of our conference. I just don't see it ever happening. How we all thought Missouri and T A & M were foolish for leaving the conference and predicting failure for both. Fact is, now T A& M not out recruits Texas consistently. Missouri has also done OK. I think if we could get into the SEC somehow, with facilities improving, we could start getting top 5 classes again.

 

[WP76]

Being in a conference that only has 10 teams, no major population centers outside of Texas, and a cloudy future definitely hurts our recruiting.

 

[CTOkie]

Agree with these points.

After watching yesterday's game and at the risk of going on the all-cliché team here goes. No matter how advanced your schemes, two things seem to never change in football (1) games are won and lost on the lines and (2) the team with the better players will win most of the time. Clemson's lines were clearly better than ours on both sides of the ball and Clemson, top to bottom, has better players than we do.

After some of the sting is wears off today, I think most of us realize we still had a far better season than any of us had the right to expect after last year. We were fortunate concerning injuries and not facing Baylor, TCU, or OSU at full strength helped us win a conference championship. Certainly, winning the conference (even a relatively weak one like the Big 12) is a nice accomplishment.

Our current situation reminds me of Oklahoma in the 1960s. We thought we were pretty good but when we played Notre Dame, we got rolled pretty badly under circumstances that were eerily similar to what we saw yesterday. For most of Stoops' tenure, we've copied the Kansas State approach e.g. recruit a few blue chippers, find some diamonds in the rough, and coach them up. It's obvious that approach is fine but it will only take us so far. Our ceiling is exposed when we play the USCs and Clemsons of the world. I know we beat Alabama two years ago but those types of wins are the exception rather than the rule under this coaching staff. Our record in top tier bowls reinforces that observation. We've beaten two elite teams in FSU and Bama but our other two BCS wins were against teams with less talented squads in Washington State and Connecticut.

The question is were do Bob and his coaching staff go from here? After last year, Stoops showed he was willing to make some hard choices and shook up his coaching staff to include firing his offensive coordinator. He now has to decide if that's good enough (not bad but not elite either) or does he take on the big boys of recruiting and upgrade the talent on our roster? If the 2016 list of commits is any indication, there's not much immediate help in sight as we'll have a class ranked somewhere in the 20s nationally. Until Bob "ups his game" on the recruiting trail, we've gone about as far as we're going to go.

Bama, one of the best posts I have read here.
Indeed, the ceiling of OU football is relatively high, but not on a national championship level, especially in recent years or since the 2008 season. Stoops recruits good players for sure, but he must aim higher, which won't happen until his teams can hold their own consistently against teams like Clemson and Alabama....and not just land the best classes in the Big 12 every year.
We condemn the star rating system here often.....but look at the classes teams like Alabama, Ohio State and Florida State get each year and compare them to the classes OU has. So far, for example, Alabama has two 5-star players committed...one from California and one from Brooklyn, NY of all places. Last year it had four 5-star players. The year (2013) it lost to Auburn on the "kick-6" play and then lost to OU, Alabama reeled in 6 (six) 5-star players that following February. While 5-star recruits can sometimes fall short of championship potential, it sure puts their teams in the hunt more often than teams who recruit mostly 3-star and a few 4-star players each year.

 

[Forneysooner]

Look at teams like LSU, Alabama, Florida State, Ohio State and their recruiting classes the last several years. Proof is in the pudding. All those teams put a priority on the OL, DL, and linebackers. Quite opposite for OU. Prime example, the Alvarez kid we have starting for us was a *2 player. He's from Mesquite. He's turned out OK, but there was a reason he was a two star player. I think for him, he's probably hit his ceiling. Is his talent level where we need to be to compete for a NC? I'm not in any way demeaning his contributions to the program, but he fits our system because of our system.

 

[WP76]

I'm not saying that the loss of one player was the difference in the game but losing Walker was a big deal. When he's tying up a couple of o-linemen, it frees Striker up to be disruptive. OTOH Striker's name wasn't called very much last night and I believe Walker's loss was a significant factor in that.

 

[BillyRay]

I agree with the OP. Building a defense to compete in the Big XII I think does make a team vulnerable when facing bigger and more physical teams. Smaller LBs that are better in coverage are perfect for the Big XII. But like last night, and also the Texas game, they just have issues being physical enough against an offense that lines up and pushes them around. Damian Mackey I remember mentioned this on the pay board even before the Texas game. He pointed out how soft OUs defense looked in the middle. And he was right on the money. Last night after the loss, he reiterated that point again that OUs ILB core just isn't physical enough and is too soft to stop the kind of game plan that Clemson threw at them.

 

[Oklabama]

It's a "catch 22". To compete in the B12, Bob has to recruit the type players his has, but to compete against the more physical teams that OU will likely meet in the playoffs, he needs to have bigger, stronger players. So that's why I've said that Bob will never win another national championship AT Oklahoma. It's not a put down directed at Bob as most have thought. Bob is doing what is necessary to win in the Big 12, which he must do to even get a chance to win another natty. But winning a NC is very difficult and especially so with teams in today's B12....IMO.

 

[iasooner1]

Agreed. We need 4-star beefiness at least 2 deep for our front 4 on both sides of the ball. Its time to become the Only team in the XII that can challenge for Nattys every year until or unless the Conference changes or we leave it.

 

[CaptainZigZag]

Hi everyone,

I love to read the posts on this message board, and others, and get a lot of laughs doing so, I have to say. I have been a Sooner fan for over 45 years, and love my Sooners, but people we have to be realistic.

I have been arguing this point to my Longhorn buddy for several years now. It's not so much the players and coaches (but I have to take exception to some of LR's post game comments about the problem not being up front in the OL), the problem is this conference we are in is predominately a spread option run conference. Baylor and TCU ruined this conference, some years ago, implementing their schemes with 2 and 3 star offensive and defensive line talent, adding 3 and 4 star in the skill positions, using laterally the entire field. Consequently, to keep up, other schools have had to do the same to keep up. You build your teams to compete and win your conference first, it's just that simple. People, teams in this conference recruit and build their teams from the outside to the inside. Recruiting has suffered because for those highly sought after OL and DL prospects, for the most part, they go outside the conference. Have you noticed, OU isn't a shoe-in to get any of the highly sought after OL and DL in our own state anymore? Yea, we will get the occasional low 4 star DL kid, or high 3 star OL kid, but nothing consistent at a high level. We don't have a huge problem getting 4 and 5 star kids in the skill position areas. We will always get those kids. OU attracts those kind of players.

I'm sure these kids that Baylor, Texas, and OU gets now are good kids and quality players, but only for these schemes. When OU offers a kid that has a few other offers from SW Missouri State, Utah State, BYU, does it not bother you? Does Ohio State, Clemson, Alabama, Florida State offer scholarships to kids being recruited by Indiana, Vanderbilt, BC and Louisville? For the most part, no. Those big time power five schools build their teams from the inside out. Why? Because they can normally control your spread option teams, PHYSICALLY

Listen to Mike Stoops PG press conference remarks, they are spot on. Obviously Losing Charles Walker was a big blow, and for a reason. We have for the most part, big problems with teams like Clemson, because we are not built to compete with those schools. Top five out of conference teams, when it comes to the playoffs and NC games, are always going to dominate our conference teams, until we change the culture. We are going to have to be content winning a conference championship until collectively, as a conference, we start building our teams again from the inside .

Sorry for the long rant,
Happy New year everybody!

This, I 100% agree with. Well written.