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Did we have more offensive turnovers in the Bone..

K2C Sooner

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than we have had in the passing game? It sure seems like it. It would be interesting to see a study of the bone versus the passing game.

Okay for you historians: didn't we have like six offensive turnovers against Kansas in the only loss in Steve Davis' tenure? I think Laundry had a couple of three pick games, but I never remember Sam having one.

I love Perine. He just doesn't turn the ball over. Maybe twice in his whole career.................

Speak to me...............
 
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than we have had in the passing game? It sure seems like it. It would be interesting to see a study of the bone versus the passing game.

Okay for you historians: didn't we have like six offensive turnovers against Kansas in the only loss in Steve Davis' tenure? I think Laundry had a couple of three pick games, but I never remember Sam having one.

I love Perine. He just doesn't turn the ball over. Maybe twice in his whole career.................

Speak to me...............
OU fumbled often in the wishbone years because 1, the running game was at least 80-85 % of OU's offense and 2, the wishbone involved pitch-outs that had to be perfectly timed and perfectly made with no margin for error. Much of the fumble-itis was negated by the great overall talent on the roster those years that on many occasion allowed OU to overcome the turnovers and win.....and score lots of points.
The two BIG games that I recall where fumbles doomed OU were the two Nebraska games in the 1970's (1971 and 1978). In 1971 three fumbles killed OU and in 1978, OU fumbled 9 times, losing 6 times, including Billy Sims' fumble inside the Nebraska 5 yard line in the closing minutes. Both defeats prevented OU from winning a national championship.
But the wishbone made it possible for OU to win 88 % of its games (102 wins, 13 losses and three ties) during that decade, 1970-79....and two national championships....with at least five near-misses in 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977 and 1978.
 
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There was a big difference in those days about fumbles. In college football, though most of the 70, you couldn't advance a recovered fumble, once it hit the ground. Miami, before they became Da U, had a fumble return for a touchdown against us, in a closer than expected win down there during the 70's. It was a fumbled pitch on the option that bounced into the air and kept the game close for more than a little while. It was a Friday night game as I recall. But otherwise, a recovered fumble by the defense was dead at the point of recovery. I can't remember exactly when that changed. But the point is that fumbles didn't hurt you then like they do now. They still had to go earn the points going the other way.

The old Darrell Royal saying: "three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad," was part of that attitude. The fumbles against Kansas were more like eleven and nine were turned over.

More and more, as defenses learned exactly what wishbone offenses were doing in their execution details, they began to put pressure on the exchange point between the quarterback and the fullback. Texas got those mammoth, athletic defensive tackles and instead of playing read and react, had them fire off on the snap through the outside shoulder of the offensive guard and they could really gunk up the pathways that the first option had to use, and then in the quarterback's path for option two or three.

The wishbone was absolutely defensible. But what the wishbone did, was make it very hard to defense if you had less talent. That's what Barry loved about it. He'd recruit whippets to play running back, and the defense couldn't gang up on them they way they could try to do in an I or other non veer formation.

Once the pass blocking rules changed late 70s and early 80s. then throwing became less risky. When we played against teams with solid passing attacks, and similar athletes, they could move the ball better than we could, especially when behind in the score.

My junior year was the first full wishbone year. 1971. The GOTC year. The 440 plus YPG rushing year. The beat USC, Texas and eventual number three Colorado in consecutive games year. Jack Mildren's senior year. We fumbled a lot, but except for Nebraska on Thanksgiving Day, it didn't matter.

With the bone, we could roll up huge scores on outmanned opponents. But it wasn't until Mack Brown became the OC in 1984, did he change the numbering system, emphasize ball protection, and lead to another wishbone team NC the year after he left. Those OU teams from 1971 to 75 were mega talented. All but 71 were also really really good defensive teams. Not a coincidence that 72-75 there were at least two Selmons on each team.

Barry wanted to let his whippets be athletes and didn't get too obsessed with turnovers. He figured they'd overcome it. Bob has the opposite point of view. It is a different game now. Defenses play differently because they have to. They focus heavily on creating turnovers. Defensive coaches have always liked turnovers. But it is a much higher emphasis now, both ways.
 
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There was a big difference in those days about fumbles. In college football, though most of the 70, you couldn't advance a recovered fumble, once it hit the ground. Miami, before they became Da U, had a fumble return for a touchdown against us, in a closer than expected win down there during the 70's. It was a fumbled pitch on the option that bounced into the air and kept the game close for more than a little while. It was a Friday night game as I recall. But otherwise, a recovered fumble by the defense was dead at the point of recovery. I can't remember exactly when that changed. But the point is that fumbles didn't hurt you then like they do now. They still had to go earn the points going the other way.

The old Darrell Royal saying: "three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad," was part of that attitude. The fumbles against Kansas were more like eleven and nine were turned over.

More and more, as defenses learned exactly what wishbone offenses were doing in their execution details, they began to put pressure on the exchange point between the quarterback and the fullback. Texas got those mammoth, athletic defensive tackles and instead of playing read and react, had them fire off on the snap through the outside shoulder of the offensive guard and they could really gunk up the pathways that the first option had to use, and then in the quarterback's path for option two or three.

The wishbone was absolutely defensible. But what the wishbone did, was make it very hard to defense if you had less talent. That's what Barry loved about it. He'd recruit whippets to play running back, and the defense couldn't gang up on them they way they could try to do in an I or other non veer formation.

Once the pass blocking rules changed late 70s and early 80s. then throwing became less risky. When we played against teams with solid passing attacks, and similar athletes, they could move the ball better than we could, especially when behind in the score.

My junior year was the first full wishbone year. 1971. The GOTC year. The 440 plus YPG rushing year. The beat USC, Texas and eventual number three Colorado in consecutive games year. Jack Mildren's senior year. We fumbled a lot, but except for Nebraska on Thanksgiving Day, it didn't matter.

With the bone, we could roll up huge scores on outmanned opponents. But it wasn't until Mack Brown became the OC in 1984, did he change the numbering system, emphasize ball protection, and lead to another wishbone team NC the year after he left. Those OU teams from 1971 to 75 were mega talented. All but 71 were also really really good defensive teams. Not a coincidence that 72-75 there were at least two Selmons on each team.

Barry wanted to let his whippets be athletes and didn't get too obsessed with turnovers. He figured they'd overcome it. Bob has the opposite point of view. It is a different game now. Defenses play differently because they have to. They focus heavily on creating turnovers. Defensive coaches have always liked turnovers. But it is a much higher emphasis now, both ways.

Yep, 9 consensus All Americans on the 75 squad...5 on defense.
That's like obscenely dominant.
 
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There was a big difference in those days about fumbles. In college football, though most of the 70, you couldn't advance a recovered fumble, once it hit the ground. Miami, before they became Da U, had a fumble return for a touchdown against us, in a closer than expected win down there during the 70's. It was a fumbled pitch on the option that bounced into the air and kept the game close for more than a little while. It was a Friday night game as I recall. But otherwise, a recovered fumble by the defense was dead at the point of recovery. I can't remember exactly when that changed. But the point is that fumbles didn't hurt you then like they do now. They still had to go earn the points going the other way.

The old Darrell Royal saying: "three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad," was part of that attitude. The fumbles against Kansas were more like eleven and nine were turned over.

More and more, as defenses learned exactly what wishbone offenses were doing in their execution details, they began to put pressure on the exchange point between the quarterback and the fullback. Texas got those mammoth, athletic defensive tackles and instead of playing read and react, had them fire off on the snap through the outside shoulder of the offensive guard and they could really gunk up the pathways that the first option had to use, and then in the quarterback's path for option two or three.

The wishbone was absolutely defensible. But what the wishbone did, was make it very hard to defense if you had less talent. That's what Barry loved about it. He'd recruit whippets to play running back, and the defense couldn't gang up on them they way they could try to do in an I or other non veer formation.

Once the pass blocking rules changed late 70s and early 80s. then throwing became less risky. When we played against teams with solid passing attacks, and similar athletes, they could move the ball better than we could, especially when behind in the score.

My junior year was the first full wishbone year. 1971. The GOTC year. The 440 plus YPG rushing year. The beat USC, Texas and eventual number three Colorado in consecutive games year. Jack Mildren's senior year. We fumbled a lot, but except for Nebraska on Thanksgiving Day, it didn't matter.

With the bone, we could roll up huge scores on outmanned opponents. But it wasn't until Mack Brown became the OC in 1984, did he change the numbering system, emphasize ball protection, and lead to another wishbone team NC the year after he left. Those OU teams from 1971 to 75 were mega talented. All but 71 were also really really good defensive teams. Not a coincidence that 72-75 there were at least two Selmons on each team.

Barry wanted to let his whippets be athletes and didn't get too obsessed with turnovers. He figured they'd overcome it. Bob has the opposite point of view. It is a different game now. Defenses play differently because they have to. They focus heavily on creating turnovers. Defensive coaches have always liked turnovers. But it is a much higher emphasis now, both ways.
The 1975 OU-Miami game had to be Switzer's ugliest victory as OU barely hung on to win 20-17 with two OU touchdowns set up by a blocked punt and a fumble recovery. OU's offense gained less than 170 total yards. Miami was 2-8 that year with its two wins over a 2-8 Houston team and a 3-8 Florida State team.....although with one exception, Miami played every team on its schedule pretty close.
 
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Plaino, Gary Gibbs lost to Texas on a recovered fumble by Texas just after the rule change was made. Check it out. I can't remember the game.

Wilkinson lost to Texas by a point just after the 2 point conversion rule came.

Jack Mildren was left handed but always threw right. Watch his awkward throws on film. He got the ball there. Mildren was in the day when teachers and parents told lefties to do everything right. A la Ronald Reagan.
 
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The slang term "sunburnt Indian" came from a Frenchman. While watching an all black OU Wishbone backfield he said, "Those sunburnt Indians sure fumble a lot." In some circles the term is now used for black Indians.
Pfft, silly Frenchmen...

A golden oldie...

Why did they plant trees on the Boulevard Champs-Elysees, Paris?

So invading armies could march in the shade.:D
 
Plaino, Gary Gibbs lost to Texas on a recovered fumble by Texas just after the rule change was made. Check it out. I can't remember the game.

Wilkinson lost to Texas by a point just after the 2 point conversion rule came.

Jack Mildren was left handed but always threw right. Watch his awkward throws on film. He got the ball there. Mildren was in the day when teachers and parents told lefties to do everything right. A la Ronald Reagan.

Jack ate and wrote left handed, but he was a stud passer in high school. The stories I heard about him was that when he arrived at OU, his natural throwing motion was farther to the side than they wanted, so they tried to chance it. I remember his first pass was for over 70 yards to Joe Killingsworth for a touchdown in Madison in September of 1969. In his three varsity years at OU, he only played without a full house backfield of some kind in three games. The third was against Oregon State on a very windy day in Norman and his against the wind throwing futility was supposedly part of the decision to change to the wishbone.

I lot of us, and especially Jack, thought that if we'd had different personnel on offense, that his throwing might have been a little more acceptable in the veer. The linemen in the '69 freshmen class were better than those in Jack's class. It wasn't until Greg Pruitt moved to running back, and Tom Brahaney and Dean Unruh became starters, that the offense took off. Jack told me personally that he felt that if we'd stayed in the veer, that we'd have made it work as well as we eventually made the wishbone work. I don't know if that's true or not, but I know he believed it. And he was stung by the criticism of his passing skills.

I'm pretty sure that when he hit Jon Harrison for back to back long throws just before halftime in the GOTC, that they were plays he called. The offensive staff was coming down from the press box for halftime and Jack was told to run the ball and be safe. And he told his high school buddy to screw that, they were throwing it deep. And both were very good throws, with the north wind.

I've even heard Barry say that if we'd have thrown in more that day, that we'd likely have won. I personally thought after what I read 30 years later, that Nebraska knew OUr play calling sideline signals and was sitting on OUr stuff. It was the passing game that kept us alive that day, including a couple of clutch fourth down throws on OUr last touchdown drive.

Jack could throw it as well as Billy Kilmer, and the latter played ahead of Sonny Jergensen in Washington because George Allen thought he was a better leader, and lived with his lame duck, fluttering passes. The fact that Jack could throw it right handed and left, made him a great option quarterback. His pitches to Pruitt were always with his left hand. They were seldom off target, especially his senior year. But his right hand pitches were as accurate, to Bell and Wylie.

If Barry and the staff hadn't thought so highly of speedster Everett Marshall, we might never have changed to the bone. Barry loved speed, but Everett just wasn't much of a running back. Pruitt was playing wide receiver when we were in the veer, and Wylie was a back up.

I think we were lucky. We'd have never accomplished what happened in the next 17 years if we'd have not switched to the bone. But it wasn't a way for Jack to look like much of a passer, with one wide receiver on virtually every offensive snap.
 
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Jack ate and wrote left handed, but he was a stud passer in high school. The stories I heard about him was that when he arrived at OU, his natural throwing motion was farther to the side than they wanted, so they tried to chance it. I remember his first pass was for over 70 yards to Joe Killingsworth for a touchdown in Madison in September of 1969. In his three varsity years at OU, he only played without a full house backfield of some kind in three games. The third was against Oregon State on a very windy day in Norman and his against the wind throwing futility was supposedly part of the decision to change to the wishbone.

I lot of us, and especially Jack, thought that if we'd had different personnel on offense, that his throwing might have been a little more acceptable in the veer. The linemen in the '69 freshmen class were better than those in Jack's class. It wasn't until Greg Pruitt moved to running back, and Tom Brahaney and Dean Unruh became starters, that the offense took off. Jack told me personally that he felt that if we'd stayed in the veer, that we'd have made it work as well as we eventually made the wishbone work. I don't know if that's true or not, but I know he believed it. And he was stung by the criticism of his passing skills.

I'm pretty sure that when he hit Jon Harrison for back to back long throws just before halftime in the GOTC, that they were plays he called. The offensive staff was coming down from the press box for halftime and Jack was told to run the ball and be safe. And he told his high school buddy to screw that, they were throwing it deep. And both were very good throws, with the north wind.

I've even heard Barry say that if we'd have thrown in more that day, that we'd likely have won. I personally thought after what I read 30 years later, that Nebraska knew OUr play calling sideline signals and was sitting on OUr stuff. It was the passing game that kept us alive that day, including a couple of clutch fourth down throws on OUr last touchdown drive.

Jack could throw it as well as Billy Kilmer, and the latter played ahead of Sonny Jergensen in Washington because George Allen thought he was a better leader, and lived with his lame duck, fluttering passes. The fact that Jack could throw it right handed and left, made him a great option quarterback. His pitches to Pruitt were always with his left hand. They were seldom off target, especially his senior year. But his right hand pitches were as accurate, to Bell and Wylie.

If Barry and the staff hadn't thought so highly of speedster Everett Marshall, we might never have changed to the bone. Barry loved speed, but Everett just wasn't much of a running back. Pruitt was playing wide receiver when we were in the veer, and Wylie was a back up.

I think we were lucky. We'd have never accomplished what happened in the next 17 years if we'd have not switched to the bone. But it wasn't a way for Jack to look like much of a passer, with one wide receiver on virtually every offensive snap.


So who was better in the wishbone passing game? Jack Mildren or Steve Davis? I still say JC Watts was the best, followed by Steve Roberson. Davis had the same throwing style, he just never threw it........
 
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Mildren....170 of 358 for 3092 yard, 24 tds, 25 int....rating = 128
Davis...86 of 215 for 2036 yards, 21 tds, 17 int....rating= 135
(From Soonerstats.com)
 
Pretty subjective stuff. I'd say that Dave Robertson was the best of OU's wishbone passers, but then I think even he would admit that he was likely the least effective wishbone runner, of those who started at least ten games. He started 12. He and Tinker Owens developed a little in game chemistry by the end of 1972.

By the time Mildren graduated, Dave was the only quarterback left of the guys in the next two classes. He won the job by being by far the most consistent in mechanics, and leadership in what came down to a battle between him and true freshman Kerry Jackson to start in '72.

Dan Ruster, in Dave's class, messed up his throwing shoulder and ended up at safety. James Stokely in the next class didn't have the patience to wait his turn. All the guys (7) in Davis' class were either redshirted, moved to defense or moved on. Again, Barry was enthralled with Jackson's athleticism. Scott Hill, also in Jackson's class was considered the top quarterback recruit in Texas their senior year of high school, but wrecked his shoulder in a pre-season scrimmage, then ended up not enrolling until the spring. and becoming a full time multi year starter at safety.

Jackson ended up playing by design about three series a game, plus mop up in maybe eight games. He was a much quicker, much more athletic runner than Robertson, but he couldn't run the offense half as well as a true freshmen. Then the mess hit during spring practice of 1973. Kerry had a gun for a right arm, but not much touch on the ball.

We put in a "50 series" of plays for him, which was a set of drop back pass stuff. We didn't have that for Jack. But when Dave started his first game, the staff had less than 20 games of wishbone experience. The offense was still evolving in its basics.
 
There was a big difference in those days about fumbles. In college football, though most of the 70, you couldn't advance a recovered fumble, once it hit the ground. Miami, before they became Da U, had a fumble return for a touchdown against us, in a closer than expected win down there during the 70's. It was a fumbled pitch on the option that bounced into the air and kept the game close for more than a little while. It was a Friday night game as I recall. But otherwise, a recovered fumble by the defense was dead at the point of recovery. I can't remember exactly when that changed. But the point is that fumbles didn't hurt you then like they do now. They still had to go earn the points going the other way.

The old Darrell Royal saying: "three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad," was part of that attitude. The fumbles against Kansas were more like eleven and nine were turned over.

More and more, as defenses learned exactly what wishbone offenses were doing in their execution details, they began to put pressure on the exchange point between the quarterback and the fullback. Texas got those mammoth, athletic defensive tackles and instead of playing read and react, had them fire off on the snap through the outside shoulder of the offensive guard and they could really gunk up the pathways that the first option had to use, and then in the quarterback's path for option two or three.

The wishbone was absolutely defensible. But what the wishbone did, was make it very hard to defense if you had less talent. That's what Barry loved about it. He'd recruit whippets to play running back, and the defense couldn't gang up on them they way they could try to do in an I or other non veer formation.

Once the pass blocking rules changed late 70s and early 80s. then throwing became less risky. When we played against teams with solid passing attacks, and similar athletes, they could move the ball better than we could, especially when behind in the score.

My junior year was the first full wishbone year. 1971. The GOTC year. The 440 plus YPG rushing year. The beat USC, Texas and eventual number three Colorado in consecutive games year. Jack Mildren's senior year. We fumbled a lot, but except for Nebraska on Thanksgiving Day, it didn't matter.

With the bone, we could roll up huge scores on outmanned opponents. But it wasn't until Mack Brown became the OC in 1984, did he change the numbering system, emphasize ball protection, and lead to another wishbone team NC the year after he left. Those OU teams from 1971 to 75 were mega talented. All but 71 were also really really good defensive teams. Not a coincidence that 72-75 there were at least two Selmons on each team.

Barry wanted to let his whippets be athletes and didn't get too obsessed with turnovers. He figured they'd overcome it. Bob has the opposite point of view. It is a different game now. Defenses play differently because they have to. They focus heavily on creating turnovers. Defensive coaches have always liked turnovers. But it is a much higher emphasis now, both ways.
 
Pretty subjective stuff. I'd say that Dave Robertson was the best of OU's wishbone passers, but then I think even he would admit that he was likely the least effective wishbone runner, of those who started at least ten games. He started 12. He and Tinker Owens developed a little in game chemistry by the end of 1972.

By the time Mildren graduated, Dave was the only quarterback left of the guys in the next two classes. He won the job by being by far the most consistent in mechanics, and leadership in what came down to a battle between him and true freshman Kerry Jackson to start in '72.

Dan Ruster, in Dave's class, messed up his throwing shoulder and ended up at safety. James Stokely in the next class didn't have the patience to wait his turn. All the guys (7) in Davis' class were either redshirted, moved to defense or moved on. Again, Barry was enthralled with Jackson's athleticism. Scott Hill, also in Jackson's class was considered the top quarterback recruit in Texas their senior year of high school, but wrecked his shoulder in a pre-season scrimmage, then ended up not enrolling until the spring. and becoming a full time multi year starter at safety.

Jackson ended up playing by design about three series a game, plus mop up in maybe eight games. He was a much quicker, much more athletic runner than Robertson, but he couldn't run the offense half as well as a true freshmen. Then the mess hit during spring practice of 1973. Kerry had a gun for a right arm, but not much touch on the ball.

We put in a "50 series" of plays for him, which was a set of drop back pass stuff. We didn't have that for Jack. But when Dave started his first game, the staff had less than 20 games of wishbone experience. The offense was still evolving in its basics.

Nice post, Plaino. I don't remember too much about Jackson, but some of the players that I know have said he could have been great. I just recall that he was OU's first black quarterback and ran for a lot of yards as a backup. Can't remember what became of him after the grade deal. Do you know?
 
I was at the Cotton Bowl in 1970 when OU first lined up in the Wishbone T. OU got smashed. I was giddy. I could see what was coming. At UT's December football banquet, a Horn said "I think we've been telling aggie jokes about the wrong school" after being asked about OU shifting to the 'bone.

After the 1971 OU-Texas game, Darrel Royal said OU was the best college football team he had ever seen. Royal later said he regretted taking phone calls from OC Barry Switzer.
 
I was at the Cotton Bowl in 1970 when OU first lined up in the Wishbone T. OU got smashed. I was giddy. I could see what was coming. At UT's December football banquet, a Horn said "I think we've been telling aggie jokes about the wrong school" after being asked about OU shifting to the 'bone.

After the 1971 OU-Texas game, Darrel Royal said OU was the best college football team he had ever seen. Royal later said he regretted taking phone calls from OC Barry Switzer.

Especially when Royal told his secretary to send ole wily Barry the entire UT offensive wishbone playbook for his perusal.

What was Darryl thinking?
At any rate, so glad he did it.
 
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Thanks, Plaino. Funny how you block out stuff like what happened to Jackson. I didn't like Switzer's quote regarding Davis "wouldn't have been the damn quarterback". Barry is a bit like Trump in some ways, but he's still my fav coach. The car accident either diminished Jackson's skills or he just couldn't deal with Steve's success for him to go from can't miss to the #4 QB. I'm glad he is happy and living well.
 
Robertson gets my vote as a slightly better passer than Watts.
In the only season he was the starter (as a senior), Robertson was 59 of 166 attempts for 1136 yards, 10 tds and only 4 int.
Watts as a senior in 1980 was 35 of 78 for 905 yards....2 tds and 10 ints....but it was Watts running the wishbone that trumps Robertson's output overall.
I saw Robertson as a better, more polished passer than Watts.
 
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Kerry couldn't have played that season anyway, after the accident. By the time he was eligible again, Steve had earned the job for a lot of reasons.

I'm in a minority among OU fans. I've thought that some favorites were not as good as claimed. I don't think "the Boz" was close to the best linebacker ever. I thought Marcus Dupree was way overrated. And I didn't love Jackson's quarterback skills. I get that he was a freshman, but his details in the little things, like hand off footwork and other little details were substandard. It's part of why he wasn't more effective when he was playing.

I always thought Barry was so enamored of talent, that he overlooked stuff like that more than occasionally. If a guy was uber talented, he could get away with playing by different rules. Dupree was. I don't think Kerry was. But I was 21, so what did I know.

Kerry had as strong an arm as you'd ever see. But that doesn't always equate with a high completion percentage. There was a Bear's quarterback when I was a kid who was supposed to be able to throw a ball close to 90 yards in the air. But he was never more than a career backup. Kerry was Rudy Bukich with 4.6 speed.
 
Kerry couldn't have played that season anyway, after the accident. By the time he was eligible again, Steve had earned the job for a lot of reasons.

I'm in a minority among OU fans. I've thought that some favorites were not as good as claimed. I don't think "the Boz" was close to the best linebacker ever. I thought Marcus Dupree was way overrated. And I didn't love Jackson's quarterback skills. I get that he was a freshman, but his details in the little things, like hand off footwork and other little details were substandard. It's part of why he wasn't more effective when he was playing.

I always thought Barry was so enamored of talent, that he overlooked stuff like that more than occasionally. If a guy was uber talented, he could get away with playing by different rules. Dupree was. I don't think Kerry was. But I was 21, so what did I know.

Kerry had as strong an arm as you'd ever see. But that doesn't always equate with a high completion percentage. There was a Bear's quarterback when I was a kid who was supposed to be able to throw a ball close to 90 yards in the air. But he was never more than a career backup. Kerry was Rudy Bukich with 4.6 speed.
Agree that Switzer seemed too enamored with talent that led him to bring some players with character issues into the program, especially in the last few years of his tenure at OU.
Personally, I don't equate all of my favorite Sooners as being "great" or "the best". Some I just liked watching....guys like Ron Fletcher, Ken Mendenhall, Don Pfrimmer, John Titsworth, Forest Valora, etc.
And I don't believe Bosworth was the best linebacker in OU history....I never bought into his profession wrestling antics, though I thought he was a very good player. Boz is a long way down on my list of favorite OU players. But he is on my list.
As for Dupree, his raw talent was by no means "overrated", but it was negated by his bad work ethic and overall attitude...and by most of the adults in his life that pulled him in many wrong directions. I feel Dupree was the greatest waste of talent in football history. Imagine if he had been with Peterson's work ethic.
Kerry Jackson may or may not have been one of the best OU quarterbacks. We'll never know. But evidently some coaches saw a player with unlimited potential....enough so to try to cheat to get him.
 
I don't think we cheated. The best description I heard of the situation was from a friend who was a Sooner player in my days. He said that the NCAA had been after us for a while but couldn't get the evidence they needed. Given the state of things in those days, it could have been that OU was using too many black athletes, and recruiting black quarterbacks. I'm not making that accusation, just that it could have been.

OU had nothing to do with the transcript changes. That happened at the high school level, in their high school. A principal wanted two kids from his school to have a chance to go to college, found out what was necessary, and got it taken care of. I don't think Bill Michael knew. Not for sure. But because the NCAA had been after us, they over penalized us for the ineligible guys, Jackson and Phillips. Apparently both had their transcripts changed.

Coach Michael had quite an eye for talent. He was the guy who convinced the staff to offer Greg Pruitt. Only one other school in the country did.
 
Remember OU's NCAA compliance officer? At first he said the NCAA has little. Loss of a scholarship might be the penalty.

A day later, the compliance officer said make preparation to get buried.

Many believe the NCAA was still smarting over loss of TV rights. Georgia and Oklahoma both got their hinies spanked pretty good. Texas had much earlier dropped out of the three school class action lawsuit against NCAA TV rights.
 
Remember OU's NCAA compliance officer? At first he said the NCAA has little. Loss of a scholarship might be the penalty.

A day later, the compliance officer said make preparation to get buried.

Many believe the NCAA was still smarting over loss of TV rights. Georgia and Oklahoma both got their hinies spanked pretty good. Texas had much earlier dropped out of the three school class action lawsuit against NCAA TV rights.

Wasn't it obvious? The NCAA is not to be messed with. So vindictive.
 
I don't think we cheated. The best description I heard of the situation was from a friend who was a Sooner player in my days. He said that the NCAA had been after us for a while but couldn't get the evidence they needed. Given the state of things in those days, it could have been that OU was using too many black athletes, and recruiting black quarterbacks. I'm not making that accusation, just that it could have been.

OU had nothing to do with the transcript changes. That happened at the high school level, in their high school. A principal wanted two kids from his school to have a chance to go to college, found out what was necessary, and got it taken care of. I don't think Bill Michael knew. Not for sure. But because the NCAA had been after us, they over penalized us for the ineligible guys, Jackson and Phillips. Apparently both had their transcripts changed.

Coach Michael had quite an eye for talent. He was the guy who convinced the staff to offer Greg Pruitt. Only one other school in the country did.
AD Wade Walker stated that while Coach Michael was not directly involved in the transcripts altering, he did have knowledge of it happening. Maybe Walker, an OU All American in the late 40's, was trying to save his own butt.
Regardless of who said what, the probation took two of Oklahoma's greatest teams (1973 and 1974) off television and gave OU yet another black eye probation (there have been five) for its program.....and the probation that worried me the most was the 1989 one that led to Switzer's forced retirement and a decade of losing and had me thinking that OU would never be relevant again.
 
AD Wade Walker stated that while Coach Michael was not directly involved in the transcripts altering, he did have knowledge of it happening. Maybe Walker, an OU All American in the late 40's, was trying to save his own butt.
Regardless of who said what, the probation took two of Oklahoma's greatest teams (1973 and 1974) off television and gave OU yet another black eye probation (there have been five) for its program.....and the probation that worried me the most was the 1989 one that led to Switzer's forced retirement and a decade of losing and had me thinking that OU would never be relevant again.

Take a look at NCAA school probations and see if if you really feel OU's were as bad as schools that had been given lesser penalties. Just saying. I believe, and always have, that the NCAA had a hard on for Barry Switzer and his football team. I'm not saying OU was crystal clean but there were other schools that got off with lesser penalties for just about the same wrong doings.
 
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Remember OU's NCAA compliance officer? At first he said the NCAA has little. Loss of a scholarship might be the penalty.

A day later, the compliance officer said make preparation to get buried.

Many believe the NCAA was still smarting over loss of TV rights. Georgia and Oklahoma both got their hinies spanked pretty good. Texas had much earlier dropped out of the three school class action lawsuit against NCAA TV rights.

You have to be talking another time frame. The OU-UGa lawsuit was well after the Kerry Jackson mess. I think the early 80s. Barry started talking about it because we were already on probation and selling out 75K every game, and he wanted OU fans to be able to see their team play. That was also the time when OU was being offered some chance to have their own network. The real offers weren't out there yet, part of the suit involved OU having all their games on national tv, if we'd only ditch our conference and go independent.

But I didn't know anyone who had cable tv in the 70s, and ESPN didn't come along until there were four months left in the 70's, and they weren't much of a factor in college sports until several years later. Without cable tv, there wouldn't be much room for most Power Five conference teams to be on TV virtually ever week they have a game.
 
Take a look at NCAA school probations and see if if you really feel OU's were as bad as schools that had been given lesser penalties. Just saying. I believe, and always have, that the NCAA had a hard on for Barry Switzer and his football team. I'm not saying OU was crystal clean but there were other schools that got off with lesser penalties for just about the same wrong doings.
I believe that Texas also had vendetta towards OU and Switzer at that time...and serving as one of the NCAA's "satellite" schools, UT at least facilitated OU's probation. A reporter in Houston at the time reported this and faced a lot of blow-back. She said that she found that some schools served as satellite schools for the NCAA in turning over information about other schools.
I have seen other other schools get lesser penalties for more severe infractions.
I also think it's strange that gang rapes and child molestation are not grounds for probation.....like what happened at OU (gang rape/shootings) in Switzer's last two years and at Penn State, when it was known for many years of Coach Sandusky's horrific crimes....even by the sacred cow, Joe Paterno, who did nothing and chose to keep it a secret.
 
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Considering we play tOSU this year I'm surprised no one brought up the 1977 game in the Horseshoe - everyone remembers the Von Schaumann winning kick - the previous 6 turnovers, maybe not so much.
http://www.soonerstats.com/football/games/recap.cfm?GameID=753#.VzlEYb5Fr7A
As I mentioned earlier, OU's great talent often lead OU to victory in spite of itself (fumbling multiple times in games). The 1977 Ohio State game was perhaps the best example of this.
The extra bonus of that win for me was seeing the biggest coaching jerk in CFB lose.
 
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I can't remember the title of the book that described the NCAA hands off schools. From memory: Notre Dame, Nebraska, Texas and Alabama. Texas had a heavyweight at the NCAA. Who could mess with Bear Bryant? College football reputation would be soiled. Same with Notre Dame. Nebraska had a heavyweight sitting at his desk at the the NCAA.

Every single OU football probation has come during or just after a winning streak against Texas. Many retired NCAA people now tell me this is ancient history. Sometime after, Alabama got stung pretty good by the NCAA.
 
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OU fumbled often in the wishbone years because 1, the running game was at least 80-85 % of OU's offense and 2, the wishbone involved pitch-outs that had to be perfectly timed and perfectly made with no margin for error. Much of the fumble-itis was negated by the great overall talent on the roster those years that on many occasion allowed OU to overcome the turnovers and win.....and score lots of points.
The two BIG games that I recall where fumbles doomed OU were the two Nebraska games in the 1970's (1971 and 1978). In 1971 three fumbles killed OU and in 1978, OU fumbled 9 times, losing 6 times, including Billy Sims' fumble inside the Nebraska 5 yard line in the closing minutes. Both defeats prevented OU from winning a national championship.
But the wishbone made it possible for OU to win 88 % of its games (102 wins, 13 losses and three ties) during that decade, 1970-79....and two national championships....with at least five near-misses in 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977 and 1978.
I believe turnovers killed us against USC with Marcus Allen.
 
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