So much for the Big XII telling David Boren to keep his thoughts to himself. Check out the DO article where Boren is quoted as saying decisions regarding expansion, championship game and converting the LN to a Big XII network should be made this summer. Love it!
Big XII Decisions Coming This Summer
- Thread starter PryorFan
- Start date
I would rather see the Sooners leave the Big XII and get to a conference that has solid footings than to try and stay with this cobbled up Big XII. What does Cincinnati, BYU or Uconn bring to the table? Uconn has a great women's basketball team, but other than that not much.
They've shown flashes in other sports. Maybe the thought is that their game will increase much like TCU and WVU when they join.
The Big 12 is projecting desperation. Not a good thing for attracting top-tier players and coaches.
Don't get me wrong, OU and Texas will always get respect, but in the age of a 4 team playoff, your conference can be the difference between a #4 or #5 spot.
Don't get me wrong, OU and Texas will always get respect, but in the age of a 4 team playoff, your conference can be the difference between a #4 or #5 spot.
Someone better tell David Boren. He is the one that has written a letter to the president of Cincinnati indicating he (OU) would entertain supporting CU in becoming a member of the B12. Evidently, Cincinnati has financial backers willing to buy out their current contract. Personally, I don't want Cincinnati, BYU or UConn, but the pickings are very slim for the B12 because it waited too long to get serious about expanding, IMO. Best option for OU is to leave the conference ASAP. Otherwise, the time will come that even OU's options won't be many.
Obviously Boren has no intention of ever leaving the B12 and is going in the opposite direction by working to expand the conference. I'm okay with Cincy, but adding UConn and BYU is ridiculous. They are both about 1,000 miles away and there are other schools the B12 should consider before these two. I'd like some consideration for Houston, Louisville or Memphis over BYU and UConn.
As for folding the Longhorn Network into a B12 Network, I just don't see that happening. Ever. But, having a B12 Network, much like the SEC and B1G Networks, is a great idea and would provide even more exposure for the conference. But then, why would texas do anything that might promote the conference over their own selfish interests?
As for folding the Longhorn Network into a B12 Network, I just don't see that happening. Ever. But, having a B12 Network, much like the SEC and B1G Networks, is a great idea and would provide even more exposure for the conference. But then, why would texas do anything that might promote the conference over their own selfish interests?
Working to expand the conference is a joke. It's nothing but a smoke screen. Besides, what schools can the Big XII add at this point that will actually help the conference overall?? OU and the Big XII missed the boat years ago when the Big XII decided that 10 schools was enough to fit their "one true champion" propaganda.
The REAL issue that Boren has expressed that the Big XII will have to come to terms with is his statement regarding the LHN. That's where the real showdown will occur.
The REAL issue that Boren has expressed that the Big XII will have to come to terms with is his statement regarding the LHN. That's where the real showdown will occur.
When Tex Schramm was running the the Cowboys, he understood the value of frequent exposure to the media of New York. Because of that, he insisted on the Cowboys being in the same division as the New York Giants, and after their first year, the Cowboys always were. And it worked to their frequent advantage. They Giants obviously deserve to be in the East. The Cowboys have been there for 55 years, because of that long insisted position.
Bringing UConn into the conference makes less sense on the surface than in reality. It would actually be brilliant. It would upgrade men's and women's basketball in the conference. But mostly, it would bring a very positive take from ESPN, and as much as I despise them, it would be a huge advantage for the conference.
BYU will never be allowed in the conference, for the exact reason that UConn would be a great idea. I don't much care for UConn nor for the distance. But it would be great for their university and very good for the XII. UConn is the home team for ESPN. It's a sad fact, but it is true. So long as they don't bring Tulsa with them, it would be very good for OUr conference.
Bringing UConn into the conference makes less sense on the surface than in reality. It would actually be brilliant. It would upgrade men's and women's basketball in the conference. But mostly, it would bring a very positive take from ESPN, and as much as I despise them, it would be a huge advantage for the conference.
BYU will never be allowed in the conference, for the exact reason that UConn would be a great idea. I don't much care for UConn nor for the distance. But it would be great for their university and very good for the XII. UConn is the home team for ESPN. It's a sad fact, but it is true. So long as they don't bring Tulsa with them, it would be very good for OUr conference.
Plaino, your post is trying to make the point that UConn would be good for the Big XII conference under the idea that UConn would bring greater exposure through proximity to ESPN. Now maybe UConn coming into the conference can bring better exposure, or maybe it can't. But, if UConn can bring greater exposure via ESPN, then why hasn't this worked out for UConn themselves over the years?? Their basketball programs are solid, but it's done nothing for their football programs.
In fact, the reality is completely different. ESPN gives the greatest exposure to the SEC, which by the way, has zero programs that are the "home team" for ESPN. ESPN seems to pay zero attention to their "home team" programs. This was even true during the duration of the Big East's existence. That conference was horrible in football, regardless of being the conference that held the advantage of proximity to ESPN over all other conferences.
If the Big XII is wanting to invite a program with that kind of distance from the current footprint, then may as well go after a California team. At the very least, it will improve exposure and the recruiting pipeline into California. I would take that over getting into the "talent rich" football area of Connecticut.....
But hey, maybe the Big XII is looking to become a basketball conference???
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Myself, I think the best options for Big XII expansion were missed years ago. That boat has already sailed, so at this point the Big XII just needs to make the best choices it can make from a pretty lackluster groups of choices. Cuz let's be honest....the Big XII is NOT luring any programs away from any current power conferences.
I think the best options would be Cincinnati, USF, UCF, or even Tulane. I know not a single one of those choices really float anyone's boat. But I think out of any realistic options, they are about as good as the Big XII is going to get.
Cincinnati's football program has been pretty decent in the last decade or so. They offer the chance for Big XII schools to get into that Midwest area for recruiting opportunities. I don't know how successful they will be against the Big 10 programs that dominate that area, but I think any chance is better than the chances Big XII programs currently have. Plus, Cincinnati expands the Big XII's footprint into another region of the country.
USF and UCF I think would be damn solid choices simply due to their location. Locking up game dates in Tampa and Orlando is pretty huge for opening recruiting pipelines into Florida. It gives an extra incentive in that Florida is an SEC recruiting stronghold. Getting a foothold into that area would be pretty nice. And like Cincinnati and the Midwest, the Big XII expanding it's footprint into that area and markets would be huge. Right now these schools don't look impressive at all, but I think long term it would be a great benefit for the Big XII to snag at least one of these schools to get into that area.
Tulane would be a last resort for me. I would much rather take 2 of the previous 3 programs I've mentioned. But Tulane at the very least get's the Big XII into the state of Louisiana, and get's a small foothold closer to the SEC recruiting grounds. Sure Tulane won't excite anyone, me included, but I think it would offer a decent potential for growth of the conference.
And at this point, if the Big XII wants to add more schools from Texas, then OU needs to cut it's losses and move on. Adding more Texas schools will do absolutely nothing to solidify this conference long term.
I think the best options would be Cincinnati, USF, UCF, or even Tulane. I know not a single one of those choices really float anyone's boat. But I think out of any realistic options, they are about as good as the Big XII is going to get.
Cincinnati's football program has been pretty decent in the last decade or so. They offer the chance for Big XII schools to get into that Midwest area for recruiting opportunities. I don't know how successful they will be against the Big 10 programs that dominate that area, but I think any chance is better than the chances Big XII programs currently have. Plus, Cincinnati expands the Big XII's footprint into another region of the country.
USF and UCF I think would be damn solid choices simply due to their location. Locking up game dates in Tampa and Orlando is pretty huge for opening recruiting pipelines into Florida. It gives an extra incentive in that Florida is an SEC recruiting stronghold. Getting a foothold into that area would be pretty nice. And like Cincinnati and the Midwest, the Big XII expanding it's footprint into that area and markets would be huge. Right now these schools don't look impressive at all, but I think long term it would be a great benefit for the Big XII to snag at least one of these schools to get into that area.
Tulane would be a last resort for me. I would much rather take 2 of the previous 3 programs I've mentioned. But Tulane at the very least get's the Big XII into the state of Louisiana, and get's a small foothold closer to the SEC recruiting grounds. Sure Tulane won't excite anyone, me included, but I think it would offer a decent potential for growth of the conference.
And at this point, if the Big XII wants to add more schools from Texas, then OU needs to cut it's losses and move on. Adding more Texas schools will do absolutely nothing to solidify this conference long term.
I would rather align with UConn and join the Big Ten together.
I think Boren has already mentally left the Big Twelve, and I concur. If we could reassemble the Big Eight, get rid of the Texas schools, and add a Connecticut, South Florida, Central Florida, Tulane group, I might stay. Otherwise, it's the Big Ten, Pac Twelve, or bust.
I think Boren has already mentally left the Big Twelve, and I concur. If we could reassemble the Big Eight, get rid of the Texas schools, and add a Connecticut, South Florida, Central Florida, Tulane group, I might stay. Otherwise, it's the Big Ten, Pac Twelve, or bust.
I would be pretty upset if we went to the B10. As much as I would like to see OU Nebraska, that conference is BORING.
I would much rather see SEC and have those games.
The B12 is dead. No one cares about Baylor or TCU no matter how good they are. Texas is in a funk and not likely to emerge any time in the next few years and OU can't close.
I would much rather see SEC and have those games.
The B12 is dead. No one cares about Baylor or TCU no matter how good they are. Texas is in a funk and not likely to emerge any time in the next few years and OU can't close.
What is the argument against OU joining the SEC? Hate? Fear? There has to be something. Would it be more difficult to win a national championship? Most likely. But if fans want to watch great match ups at least 3 or 4 times a season most years, then the SEC is the place to be. The OU - Tennessse game was as good as it gets. I like that type of game. Win or lose. OU will get better recruits as a SEC member. OU will get even more exposure and play in bigger games. OU will probably make a little more money. OU will spoil Alabama's season more often. There great away locations for fans to attend and great CCG to play and win. Bob Stoops will win in the SEC. Bob Stoops will recruit better in the SEC. I don't see any down side. Of course, this is only my personal preference and opinion, but I'd enjoy hearing poster's specific reasons against OU going to the SEC.
I agree whole heartedly. The SEC would be the best fit. I think Boren knows he's grasping at straws, but maybe he feels like it is necessary to justify a jump in the future.
Oklabama, I feel the same way. I love the idea of OU joining the SEC.
For purely selfish reasons, I'd love to see OU in the SEC only because I live in ATL and could travel easily to many of the road games. But, my gut tells me OU is going to be in the B12 for a long, long time.
While I was reading Boren's comments this line struck me -- "Most people in the Big 12 want to stay in the Big 12." I assume that some people do not want to be in the Big 12. That means that some people do not want to be a part of the Big 12. Is Boren referring to the Presidents, Athletic Directors, donors, ticket holders and on and on? My first thought, based on the his position, was the Presidents.
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I think the perception about the SEC, which is actually more than likely reality, is that you have to cheat to win. I don't think we want to go back down that road and even if we did, are you really going to "outcheat" teams like Miss, LSU, Auburn or Alabama in their own backyard? I think that is doubtful. Plus, given the way we melt down over one loss, how would fans react to losing 4/5 games a year? Finally, I don't think Bob Stoops wants any part of the SEC. He knows he would get some beat downs in that conference, especially since he doesn't want to cheat to win.
Well that's part of the problem. Are we talking about "perception" of cheating?? Or proven cases of cheating?? I'm not going to claim there is absolutely zero cheating going on in the world of college football. But nowadays, its seems most want to throw out the blanket/default claim of "oh they must be cheating" to explain the success of any program that is doing better than OU. I assume alot of this thinking stems towards how well the SEC program recruit these days. Ever stop and think that kids nowadays simply want to play in the SEC?? Since 2003, the SEC has won 9 national titles. That's 9 of the last 13. Right now, the SEC simply has the reputation of if you are a high school kid and you want to play big boy football, then come play in the SEC!! Couple that with the home area of the SEC is prolly the most talent rich area in the country. But I don't think there is any more, or any less, cheating going on in the SEC than there is in any other conference in the country.
Someone said that, OU joining the SEC would be like an alcoholic taking a job as a bartender.
Boren wants to be in the XII. Stoops wants to be in the XII. Joe C wants to be in the XII and they are who matter. You have several issues. One is that there is a long term contract with FOX for broadcasts of not just football for close to another decade.
It is a pipe dream to think that OU's recruiting is going to improve substantially as a member of the SEC. And I believe that it's 50-50 that you'd lose your head coach. You've already lost the Nebraska rivalry. Likely to lose the RRR and the annual OSU game also if OU is the only school that goes.
Strengthen the XII, maybe toss the Longhorns to the curb and let them go independent. You might even get a good school or two back.
BR, you beat to it. All this BS assumption the SEC must be cheating is just that BS. My Vols friend, and I love the guy, is always blaming Tennessee's failures against Florida, Alabama, etc. on the cheating that Tennessee doesn't do. BS. The reason that teams lose is usually because they don't play as well as their opponents even when it's a level playing field. The best athletes gravitate to the best programs. Deal with it. Many fans don't want to move to a conference because of the competition. I can appreciate that. But don't belittle the SEC or Big Ten just because if OU were to join one of those conferences it would make it more difficult to win. Do you want to be the best? If so, compete with the best is how I see it. The Big 12 is never going to have what the Big 8 had again. Conferences have passed us by and there isn't a way (or programs available) to help us as a Big 12 member. We need to go to another conference. My vote is the SEC, but there are others that would benefit the Sooner program.
Why do you think Bob Stoops doesn't want to become a member of the SEC or wouldn't coach an OU team as a member of the SEC?
What are you basing your statement on about being 50-50 that OU would lose Bob Stoops?? Bob has had a pretty good amount of success in his meetings with SEC teams, so why would he go to such an extreme as to hang it up just because OU joined the SEC?? I hate to say this Plaino, but you making that claim literally is like saying Bob Stoops isn't a competitor and wouldn't want to have to raise the level of the OU program to the level needed to compete in that conference. I thought Bob Stoops was about winning championships?? Why would it matter if he were in the Big XII, or the SEC, or any conference for that matter??
Call it a pipe dream all you want about OU's ability to recruit being enhanced by having the SEC patch on their uniforms. OU is program that historically, can match up with any program the SEC has. OU gets in the SEC, and starts playing games in that part of the country, it's literally impossible that OU wouldn't reap some recruiting benifits of that. It would be nice for OU to get in there and start turning some of the elite talent in that area to come play FOR the Sooners, rather than having to play AGAINST them possibly someday. And if you want to say the perception of SEC dominance is just a myth then that's certainly your right to think as you will. But it's absolute reality that high school kids these days are more and more drawn to play in the SEC. That's a straight up fact if you look at overall recruiting. The SEC signs more elite talent yearly, then possibly every other conference combined. How many times do you really think OU, while being in the Big XII, can win recruiting battles straight up against some of the top SEC programs?? OU is gonna be on the losing end of that equation FAR more than not. But OU having that SEC conference patch on their uniforms would level the recruiting playing field a bit and likely make OU look much more attractive to elite kids.
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So what are you saying OU would do if the school became a member of the SEC? Forgive me but I don't understand your point.
Okay, BillyRay. I'm going to let you fight this battle because I keep repeating you or making the same points.
What's ironic, is people who make this sort of claim against moving to a more competitive conference literally are admitting, by virtue of their argument, that those conferences are better. And as such, if teams from those conferences navigate those brutal schedules and win a national title, would be a more legit national champion than if they were coming from another conference. In my opinion, people whom don't want to switch to another conference because of perception of it's difficulty, are literally doing so out of fear of competition.
Lol, no way Oklabama. Keep posting man. It's not the fault of either of us that we simply are seeing eye-to-eye on this whole thing.
Not saying that at all. Anybody around here knows I believe the opposite of that. But Bob knows what his raw recruiting base is, and it is substandard to every SEC school's home base. Bob is no fool. He's soon to be 55. His sons are in their junior year. at I guess Norman North.
In equal circumstances Bob can compete with anybody, and he knows it. But OU's depth is challenged because of years like the previous one in recruiting. Three from Oklahoma and three from Texas. And most of the rest from 800 miles away or more.
This idea that the grass is greener over there seldom is true. And again, I'm just glad that Bob and Joe C and Boren are making the decision. And I know this for sure. In the past, Bob was asked if he'd like OU to move to the SEC. And he said no. I cannot think of any reason since then that his mind would be changed.
If Bob said no to moving to the SEC, I'll take your word for it. But I am surprised and disappointed. I'd like to know why Bob feels that way. Hopefully it isn't have anything to do with the competition. I suspect it's money.
I wouldn't exactly take what Bob Stoops says about the Big XII publicy and run with it as the absolute truth. Sometimes you gotta take statements like that with a grain of salt. Of course Bob is going to say such things publicly. Saying he wants to go to the SEC would be contrary to what Boren and JoeC decided to do. He would be publicly stabbing them in the back, and also publicly going against the Big XII. Bob would never do that. Bob may truthfully feel that way, but even if he didn't, he most certainly would NOT publically state it. But just because he would prefer to stay in the Big XII doesn't necessarily mean he would lean towards retirement if OU ended up going to the SEC.
Now a handful of years ago, I have no doubt Boren and JoeC decided OU was best suited to stay in the Big XII. I would be curious to know their TRUE feelings now, with hindsight, if that decision makes them feel warm and fuzzy nowadays, or if they wished they had taken a different course??
But yes I do agree Plaino, that I believe that Bob and OU can compete with anybody. That's why I'm not afraid of a decision of OU moving to the SEC. I would love the competition, and feel that once OU got up and running the SEC, that they would be contenders year after year.
I am surprised that someone would think we are of A&M caliber. They won 4/5 games IN the B12 and have done so in the SEC when we surpassed that margin while they were here. Missouri (of all places) has done even better.
If Bob Stoops wants no part of the SEC then let him leave. He came from Florida, which last time I checked was the SEC and did quite well. What makes you think he'd shy away from that?
As I said, if he did shy away from it, then he needs to move on...maybe that's the problem...we are too comfortable in the good ole B12 where things are easier.
Having lived in Mississippi for several years, their recruiting base within the ENTIRE state is about the same size as San Antonio (IE much smaller than Oklahoma). Louisiana has only slightly larger than the state of Oklahoma and Alabama has about 25% more people than Oklahoma. The recruiting scenarios are similar and in a lot of ways are better for us being near a huge base of talent that we've seemed to have ignored recently. Yet they routinely, despite the advantages we may have with TX being so close, out recruit us. Why is that?
You want to go to the B10 where we have to travel to crappy places in the dead of winter? How about the P12 where it's 1000 miles to get to a place like USC which most of the population doesn't even care about football? Their capacity of 93K people is slightly larger than a stadium in Norman and their population of 1 city is 10X the population of the entire STATE. In an article from 2015 they are even talking about reducing capacity from 93K to 77K. Imagine if we did that...we can't hold the amount of people now that want to get into the game.
All in all, I think the SEC is the best place for us. The B12 sucks, it has since the mass exodus. Bringing WV in was a God send, but TCU was a band aid and so will anyone else we bring in like them. Not to say they suck (they do not), but they didn't replace anyone substantial, they just extended the life of this conference like a cancer patient getting chemo. Anyone else we bring in like a Houston or Cincy is sheer desperation and everyone knows it. It doesn't help the conference as a whole.
Oklahoma can hang with the best of any conference, and there is no reason to fear anyone. We may not close well in bowl games but that isn't a historical problem, more of a relatively recent phenomena. Perhaps upping the level of competition will re-invigorate the status quo or motivate those who aren't up to the challenge to seek easier surroundings.
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Not my quote....but the gist is.... OU is a reformed alcoholic (use to cheat but no longer does) would be competing with schools where cheating is believed to be alive and well by some people. The constant temptation would be huge. In other words like a reformed alcoholic serving others drinks.
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I'd like to get out of The Joneses conference. The annual game in Dallas was great when we were in the big eight. Recruitment in the SEC would be much better I believe. Some top Texas players that Alabama ,LSU and Mississippi are getting big targets out of Texas. We would out recruit A&M in the SEC and be closer for Texas recruits families to travel for games.
There is one thing that we can't matchup with and that's home field advantage. Norman crowd noise compared to Tennessee for instance. I'm still in favor of the SEC though.
There is one thing that we can't matchup with and that's home field advantage. Norman crowd noise compared to Tennessee for instance. I'm still in favor of the SEC though.
Thank you for the explanation. My only thought is with Bob Stoops as head coach I wouldn't be concerned. And I really don't think there is a universal cheating issue in the SEC. JMO.
