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What is going to happen with the Big 12?

Feb 19, 2007
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This may be a long post but I'll go with it anyway. First off, at the current time FSU fans in general are very happy in the ACC and hope to be here for a long time now that we have the ACC Network upcoming and we have Notre Dame and other locked in with the Grant of Rights going through 2036.

The thing I wanted to discuss is how we got here. Back in May 2012 there was a lot of unrest in Nole Nation. The ACC was fifth in College Football in annual TV Revenue and FSU's athletic department was running a deficit in spite of our overall success in athletics. We all wanted to go to the Big 12. There was definitely some flirting going on between FSU/Clemson and the Big 12 although I have no idea how serious it got. But had the Big 12 made a formal invite to FSU/Clemson back then there would definitely have been some serious talks going on. Now, there is zero chance that happens. It just shows you how quickly things can change.

So that leads me to the Big 12. Choosing to expand the way they are is the right move. But the Big 12 faces a conundrum on WHO to invite and HOW MANY to invite. In spite of what is said there are some good prospects out there. There just aren't any out there that are currently in Power 5 conferences. I think Houston, BYU, and Cincinnati's potential as athletic program. UCF has a lot of potential too even though they went 0-12 last season. They won the Fiesta Bowl as recently as 2013 and they would open up the Florida TV market as well as the Florida geographic area for recruiting.

But even with that, I think the Big 12 as a whole is in trouble. But I don't think it hurts schools like Oklahoma and Texas although it would hurt the others. The reason I think the Big 12 is in trouble is because if the SEC, ACC, Big 10 or Pac 12 decided to expand again they would obviously come after Oklahoma and Texas and I don't see how Oklahoma and Texas wouldn't seriously consider leaving. I know for a fact that IF Notre Dame ever decides to join the ACC Full Time the ACC will need a 16th team and Oklahoma or Texas would get the first invite as the 16th ACC Team. And in that scenario a boatload of money would be made in the ACC. But as of right now I am aware that all of this is speculative.

Anyway, what are you guys' thoughts on what I mentioned as well as what you think the future of the Big 12 is?
 
The Big 12 will add four teams and at an opportune time OU & UT will leave and join another conference. They may leave in tandem to one conference or separately to different conferences and they may drag one or two others with them but I do not think either program is still in the Big 12 in the next 8 years.
 
This may be a long post but I'll go with it anyway. First off, at the current time FSU fans in general are very happy in the ACC and hope to be here for a long time now that we have the ACC Network upcoming and we have Notre Dame and other locked in with the Grant of Rights going through 2036.

The thing I wanted to discuss is how we got here. Back in May 2012 there was a lot of unrest in Nole Nation. The ACC was fifth in College Football in annual TV Revenue and FSU's athletic department was running a deficit in spite of our overall success in athletics. We all wanted to go to the Big 12. There was definitely some flirting going on between FSU/Clemson and the Big 12 although I have no idea how serious it got. But had the Big 12 made a formal invite to FSU/Clemson back then there would definitely have been some serious talks going on. Now, there is zero chance that happens. It just shows you how quickly things can change.

So that leads me to the Big 12. Choosing to expand the way they are is the right move. But the Big 12 faces a conundrum on WHO to invite and HOW MANY to invite. In spite of what is said there are some good prospects out there. There just aren't any out there that are currently in Power 5 conferences. I think Houston, BYU, and Cincinnati's potential as athletic program. UCF has a lot of potential too even though they went 0-12 last season. They won the Fiesta Bowl as recently as 2013 and they would open up the Florida TV market as well as the Florida geographic area for recruiting.

But even with that, I think the Big 12 as a whole is in trouble. But I don't think it hurts schools like Oklahoma and Texas although it would hurt the others. The reason I think the Big 12 is in trouble is because if the SEC, ACC, Big 10 or Pac 12 decided to expand again they would obviously come after Oklahoma and Texas and I don't see how Oklahoma and Texas wouldn't seriously consider leaving. I know for a fact that IF Notre Dame ever decides to join the ACC Full Time the ACC will need a 16th team and Oklahoma or Texas would get the first invite as the 16th ACC Team. And in that scenario a boatload of money would be made in the ACC. But as of right now I am aware that all of this is speculative.

Anyway, what are you guys' thoughts on what I mentioned as well as what you think the future of the Big 12 is?

My opinion will be the minority view here. The Big XII is simply land-locked with few options. When we lost NU, Mizzou and A&M because of Texas and their greed we were left with no really good options for expansion. With the exception of BYU there are no teams left that bring anything to the table. Even BYU brings some baggage, but they are better than any other options.

You mentioned Houston. The truth is that Houston brings not one thing to the conference that really matters. They lucked out and hired a great young coach who will be gone the first time a decent Power 5 team has a Head Coach vacancy and then Houston will fall back into nothing much. They just don't make the conference money as they don't bring fans or TV sets to the conference. They will just dilute the current conference revenue. The only team that benefits from Houston joining the conference is Houston.

There is a reason that Cincy, UConn, Colorado State, Memphis State and UCF aren't part of a current Power 5 conference. They just don't add much is the reason.

My view is that regardless of the value of these teams is that OU and OSU are better off in a conference with teams in their region meaning the current Big XII teams. The Big XII just needs to pick the best two or four of the available teams and bite the bullet and get to 12 or 14 teams before some other conference picks them up. I say just take BYU, Cincy, UConn and Colorado State and be done with it. There simply won't be better choices in the future.

I simply don't want any part of the SEC as I think they are corrupt. My next choice would be for OU, OSU, Texas and Tech to join up with the Pac 12 to get them to 16 teams. Still there are serious travel issues with that option. We just don't have good options.
 
Whatever else happens, I expect OU and Texas to exit sometime in the next 2-3 years and join another conference hand-in-hand.....unless the conference can reel in two or more big time teams. BYU is a decent choice, but Cincinnati, Colorado State, UConn, Memphis, Louisville, Tulane do not fill the bill. Houston is a gamble.
 
Whatever else happens, I expect OU and Texas to exit sometime in the next 2-3 years and join another conference hand-in-hand.....unless the conference can reel in two or more big time teams. BYU is a decent choice, but Cincinnati, Colorado State, UConn, Memphis, Louisville, Tulane do not fill the bill. Houston is a gamble.
Well, Louisville is not an option due to being in the ACC with the Grant of Rights. The biggest unknown is the POTENTIAL of all those teams you mentioned. If you venture into new geographic areas you obviously add eyeballs to the TV sets. But the real unknown is how those schools compete in athletics as part of a Power 5 conference. Do they improve or detract from the conference's reputation. That so speculative because maybe those schools recruit better being in the Big 12. But maybe they continue to not be able to attract great athletes. It's tough to say. But I do think the Big 12 has to just HOLD THEIR NOSE and make the invites and hope for the best.
 
Well, Louisville is not an option due to being in the ACC with the Grant of Rights. The biggest unknown is the POTENTIAL of all those teams you mentioned. If you venture into new geographic areas you obviously add eyeballs to the TV sets. But the real unknown is how those schools compete in athletics as part of a Power 5 conference. Do they improve or detract from the conference's reputation. That so speculative because maybe those schools recruit better being in the Big 12. But maybe they continue to not be able to attract great athletes. It's tough to say. But I do think the Big 12 has to just HOLD THEIR NOSE and make the invites and hope for the best.
Good points....which is why I put Houston in as a bit of a gamble. Houston did well in the mid 1970's under Yeoman in their first years into the SWC and maybe joining the Big 12 will elevate Houston on to a higher level. Plus, playing games in Reliant Stadium against OU and Texas would be beneficial. The Big 12 really needs to aim high if it wants to expand and stay on even keel with the SEC, Big 10 and Pac12.....especially with the futures of Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas State and Kansas looking shaky.
 
The Big Twelve died when Nebraska and Missouri left. Nebraska, Missouri, Kansas, and Oklahoma had been associated in a conference for about ninety years.These were similar schools with similar problems.

When we hear of expansion teams, they are the type of teams that might have been appropriate for the Missouri Valley Conference, and some had been in that conference. Cincinnati, BYU, Houston, Memphis State, Boise State, Colorado State, and the Directional Florida schools have little more credibility than the Directional Louisiana schools. Memphis State is supposed to replace Missouri or Nebraska? Why? Because they are on the Mississippi River? Oh, but that would be St. Louis University.

OU lost the opportunity to be proactive by erroneously, and ill-advisedly, considering itself associated with either OSU or Texas, neither of which had been in the same conference with OU for most of their existence.

While I think A&M was a good fit for the SEC, I don't think Texas is. Texas, based in Austin, has more in common with San Francisco than Tuscaloosa. The only similarity between Austin and the SEC region is a love of country music, as long as it doesn't come from Nashville. The current regents of Texas may not see the future as it is. But, Austin will be a west coast school.

I don't exactly know where OU fits best. Boren wanted the Pacific Twelve, and I would love that. I wouldn't mind the Big Ten. We do share more traits with Nebraska than Texas. But, I don't see a power conference emerging from the Big Twelve. It has Tweener written all over it.
 
The Big Twelve died when Nebraska and Missouri left. Nebraska, Missouri, Kansas, and Oklahoma had been associated in a conference for about ninety years.These were similar schools with similar problems.

When we hear of expansion teams, they are the type of teams that might have been appropriate for the Missouri Valley Conference, and some had been in that conference. Cincinnati, BYU, Houston, Memphis State, Boise State, Colorado State, and the Directional Florida schools have little more credibility than the Directional Louisiana schools. Memphis State is supposed to replace Missouri or Nebraska? Why? Because they are on the Mississippi River? Oh, but that would be St. Louis University.

OU lost the opportunity to be proactive by erroneously, and ill-advisedly, considering itself associated with either OSU or Texas, neither of which had been in the same conference with OU for most of their existence.

While I think A&M was a good fit for the SEC, I don't think Texas is. Texas, based in Austin, has more in common with San Francisco than Tuscaloosa. The only similarity between Austin and the SEC region is a love of country music, as long as it doesn't come from Nashville. The current regents of Texas may not see the future as it is. But, Austin will be a west coast school.

I don't exactly know where OU fits best. Boren wanted the Pacific Twelve, and I would love that. I wouldn't mind the Big Ten. We do share more traits with Nebraska than Texas. But, I don't see a power conference emerging from the Big Twelve. It has Tweener written all over it.
There is no doubt that adding four teams from the pool you are choosing from would dilute the conference somewhat. But the Big 12 will always be thought of as a Power 5 conference as long as Oklahoma and Texas are in the conference. The things that Oklahoma and Texas might not like remaining in the Big 12 are TV Revenue relative to the other Power 5 conferences and opportunities in the CFB Playoff. If the Big 12 gets watered down with these new teams then that hurts strength of schedule particularly if the Big 12 stays with a 9 game league schedule with fewer opportunities to beef up the Non-Conference schedule. They can still get in but it's just harder to get in. TV Revenues probably don't affect Texas as much as Oklahoma due to the Longhorn Network. But rest assured I think Oklahoma or Texas would bolt if any of the other 4 Power conferences offer an invite. If that happens, the Big 12 will end up among the Group of 5 Conferences.
 
Let's get a picture of where the Big Twelve is. In Tallahassee, FSU is 719 miles from Texarkana, 625 miles from Beaumont, 709 miles from Houston, 834 miles from Dallas, and 1006 miles from Norman. It's a long way to Norman.

But, it is 814 miles from Texarkana to El Paso, 745 miles from Houston to El Paso. You are closer to Houston than Houston is to El Paso. Chicago is closer to Texarkana than is El Paso. Once you get past FW, it is 604 miles to El Paso. But, that is the division of I-35.

If you go west of IH-35, there are countries that may exist that have not yet been mapped. Nobody wants to go out there. It is so dry, so desolate, that I actually (and truthfully) saw a golf course made almost entirely of sand with no visible blade of grass, at least a nine-hole course. When Mexico and the Republic of Texas were trying to get people to settle in Texas, they gave up to 4,600 acres of land to the head of a family to settle "grassland." They didn't get quite that much if it was farmland. That is over seven square miles of land, just to move in and settle. They had difficulty getting settlers, even with that much land.

It is the definition of flyover country, and that is the problem of the Big Twelve. I doubt that most Oklahomans have ever visited the Panhandle other than to drive through it on the way to New Mexico or Colorado. Few Texans can tell you what the Texas Panhandle is like. Nobody knows what is west of Midland. I had a client who drove a jeep station wagon cross country from western New Mexico through west Texas without getting on a road (his and his wife's claim). It could well be possible. There is no obstruction.

It isn't really a long way to California. It is simply catching a plane in DFW and flying over whatever is below. You can waste a day of driving for no good reason on land.
 
Whatever else happens, I expect OU and Texas to exit sometime in the next 2-3 years and join another conference hand-in-hand.....unless the conference can reel in two or more big time teams. BYU is a decent choice, but Cincinnati, Colorado State, UConn, Memphis, Louisville, Tulane do not fill the bill. Houston is a gamble.
wake up. the big12 has gor.
 
The Big 12 will add four teams and at an opportune time OU & UT will leave and join another conference. They may leave in tandem to one conference or separately to different conferences and they may drag one or two others with them but I do not think either program is still in the Big 12 in the next 8 years.

So...B-12 expansion at this point in time is nothing more than a Band-Aid to get you to the end of the current GOR's, so OU and UT can say F.O. to the rest of the schools...Correct!?!?!?

:cool:
 
Whatever else happens, I expect OU and Texas to exit sometime in the next 2-3 years and join another conference hand-in-hand.....unless the conference can reel in two or more big time teams. BYU is a decent choice, but Cincinnati, Colorado State, UConn, Memphis, Louisville, Tulane do not fill the bill. Houston is a gamble.

DUDE...You had a chance at Louisville and chose West Virginia...Louisville is NOW in the ACC and LAUGHS at the mess the B-12 is NOW in!!!

:cool:
 
Texas cannot beat K-state year in and year out and K-state has the best facilities. Texas has more revenue than Big 12 teams- population history and student body. You just have not been to the campus in recent years of the new college building and the football stadium/ field. OU has been beaten at OU by K-state at home its last two years by K-state. K-state will be in the top 25 research public colleges by 2023. Academically, it will qualify for the Big Ten; Its facilities and stadiums blows aways 4 to 5 stadiums and university of the Big Ten. Colorado and Nebraska have already admitted to Snyder that they never wished they left the Big 12 last week.K-state is recruiting hard out of Georgia and each recruit is going back and saying its the nothing close of your imagination of what you are thinking what K-State is. They tell all you have to get a schedule a trip to Manhattan. The economy is going bad, police are being killed each day and MAnahattan is all family and midwest traits. Screw Baylor; they can leave. Many writers think you have it figured out; you are short term thinkers. Please watch Europe collapse with Germany - Deutsche Bank and Italy next and let's see where the money is in 2020. It is not going to be in pensions and 401-Ks. You act like noncollege graduates and look like sports writer graduates for the attention today. The Big 12 is smarter than you, I assure you. IF you have read in depth about KU football, it is going to take 5 to 7 years to get a football team. They remind us in the Big 12 KU is a good university but facilities like Northwestern and Purdue. If not for the law school medical school right now they would be in the Mountain West. KU has become nothing than a Colorado University, suburban of Boulder vs Kansas City. It is night and day between K-state and KU right now of campus life, undergraduate study and the football team. Do not go back 5 years, go back 15 years and K-state is right with all of the biggies. Ok, I will agree that we have to control the Kansas city market and Wichita for what you want. K-state has not received any government funds for 12 college buildings in recent years, The football facilities exceed 4 Big Ten teams easily and the academical will exceed 4 schools of the-the Big Ten teams by 2020; In you do not agree, then 2023 for sure. I am sure that K-State will get an invitation before Iowa State and KU to the Big Ten if the Big 12 league breaks up. Do not be the surprise that Colorado and Nebraska do not come back and all is hogwash. Who wants a football atmosphere at Northwestern, Purdue, Indiana, and Minnesota. None of those schools can beat K-state and the KU , Iowa State, and 4 Big ten schools do not have the facilities to match K-State. Minnesota was beat 35 to nothing the last time they came to Manhattan. K-state football beat Tony Romo with the Dallas Cowboys, Carson Palmer twice with USC and at their place, Aaron Rogers at California on a neutral stadium and Donovan McNabb in recent years at a bowl. K-state beat OU at their home the last two years there. Pet Caroll cannot beat K-state at two chances in a row. The game at K-state was not even close per the score, it was oh' um the whole game. It was a boring game a score does not depict the outcome.
K-state played in the first ESPN game ever. K-state - Nebraska was the second game west of the Mississippi River. Was it played in that Great Nebraska stadium? no , it was played in Manhattan, Ks .We lost by 7 points if I remember right. K-state football fell apart during World War II, the draft took all of the farm kids at 18. Read up on this, because you Notre Dame fans did not save us from Japan; it was the farm kids of the hard worker, dirt eaters and people with a fight.
Watch the fallout after the election and let see who is right. We build college buildings and football facilities with personal gifts; you slump people in the city can not give. Who wins this battle for the long run? Sure not your metropolitans schools.
 
I only see the Pac-12, Big 10 and SEC as being safe right now. The ACC is going to be ok but I see the Big 10 and SEC (if either expand) adding ACC teams.

I could see the SEC welcoming Oklahoma (less so Oklahoma St). They might consider Clemson, Georgia Tech, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Florida State,.... Really, the SEC would solidify small gaps in their current map and I feel anyone that they invite would go. The Oklahoma schools would be a good cultural and competitive fit. I am not sure they would take both.

The Big 10, I feel, would add two teams to their geographic east. This would allow them to move Ohio State to a "west" division and out of the same division as Michigan and Michigan St. I see expansion candidates for the Big 10 being Boston College, Pitt, Syracuse (not sure about their academics), Virginia, (Temple,not ACC I know),....(Notre Dame ????)

The Pac-12 has many options. Texas would fit culturally in the Pac-12. Another state of Texas partner (Texas Tech) and OK. and OK. State would not fit culturally out west. Plus, those of us in the Central time zone detest the late start west coast games (probably just as much as the west coast fans hate the 11 am starts on the east coast. The Pac-12 is probably organized the best of the major conferences. They are in pairs, Washington and Washington St., Oregon and Oregon St., Stanford and California (Northern Cal.) UCLA and USC (Southern Cal.), Arizona and Arizona St., and (last added Utah and Colorado). I think the Pac-12 has the most options as well. Too many "pair" options to list.

There are so many what ifs.

If the Big 12 does not move first to expand, the Big 12 leftovers and the ACC leftovers could merge. The ACC could say too bad and pick up UConn, Memphis, Houston, Temple, Cincinnati, (West Virginia ?), Tulane, ...

I do not see Iowa St., Kansas and Kansas St. (Baylor currently) being invited to the ACC. Some, not all of the remaining Texas school could be invited to the ACC leftover party. I see the ACC name staying and the new ACC would look competitive.

The final look at the Big 12 (maybe with 14 or even 16 members) would look like:
Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor, TCU, New Mexico, New Mexico St, BYU, Utah St., Air Force, Colorado St., UNLV, Nevada, Idaho, Boise St., Wyoming, Tulsa, UTEP, and/or some of the California schools. (many others could be considered, Hawaii, Dakota's, .....)

The Big 12 would be the bottom of the Power 5 or the top Mid-Major.

The ACC would be 4th. However, their conference champion, depending on the year, would be competitive in the playoff.

Way out of the box but a slam dunk if the Big 12 could sway Georgia Tech, Clemson, Florida St., and Miami or 3 of these and Houston...that would make 14, throw in Memphis and Cincinnati or.................????? Big if's. Don't see it. This would make it superior to the ACC. Really, Houston could work in this scene, and I see more ACC teams joining like North Carolina, NC State, a Virginia not taken by another conference, Louisville, ........................... (Highly unlikely)
 
I only see the Pac-12, Big 10 and SEC as being safe right now. The ACC is going to be ok but I see the Big 10 and SEC (if either expand) adding ACC teams.

I could see the SEC welcoming Oklahoma (less so Oklahoma St). They might consider Clemson, Georgia Tech, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Florida State,.... Really, the SEC would solidify small gaps in their current map and I feel anyone that they invite would go. The Oklahoma schools would be a good cultural and competitive fit. I am not sure they would take both.

The Big 10, I feel, would add two teams to their geographic east. This would allow them to move Ohio State to a "west" division and out of the same division as Michigan and Michigan St. I see expansion candidates for the Big 10 being Boston College, Pitt, Syracuse (not sure about their academics), Virginia, (Temple,not ACC I know),....(Notre Dame ????)

The Pac-12 has many options. Texas would fit culturally in the Pac-12. Another state of Texas partner (Texas Tech) and OK. and OK. State would not fit culturally out west. Plus, those of us in the Central time zone detest the late start west coast games (probably just as much as the west coast fans hate the 11 am starts on the east coast. The Pac-12 is probably organized the best of the major conferences. They are in pairs, Washington and Washington St., Oregon and Oregon St., Stanford and California (Northern Cal.) UCLA and USC (Southern Cal.), Arizona and Arizona St., and (last added Utah and Colorado). I think the Pac-12 has the most options as well. Too many "pair" options to list.

There are so many what ifs.

If the Big 12 does not move first to expand, the Big 12 leftovers and the ACC leftovers could merge. The ACC could say too bad and pick up UConn, Memphis, Houston, Temple, Cincinnati, (West Virginia ?), Tulane, ...

I do not see Iowa St., Kansas and Kansas St. (Baylor currently) being invited to the ACC. Some, not all of the remaining Texas school could be invited to the ACC leftover party. I see the ACC name staying and the new ACC would look competitive.

The final look at the Big 12 (maybe with 14 or even 16 members) would look like:
Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor, TCU, New Mexico, New Mexico St, BYU, Utah St., Air Force, Colorado St., UNLV, Nevada, Idaho, Boise St., Wyoming, Tulsa, UTEP, and/or some of the California schools. (many others could be considered, Hawaii, Dakota's, .....)

The Big 12 would be the bottom of the Power 5 or the top Mid-Major.

The ACC would be 4th. However, their conference champion, depending on the year, would be competitive in the playoff.

Way out of the box but a slam dunk if the Big 12 could sway Georgia Tech, Clemson, Florida St., and Miami or 3 of these and Houston...that would make 14, throw in Memphis and Cincinnati or.................????? Big if's. Don't see it. This would make it superior to the ACC. Really, Houston could work in this scene, and I see more ACC teams joining like North Carolina, NC State, a Virginia not taken by another conference, Louisville, ........................... (Highly unlikely)

DUDE...What do you NOT understand about the ACC's NEW GOR's that go till the 2035/2036 season...No ACC Team...INCLUDING Notre Dame...Is going ANYWHERE for 20 years!!!

BOTH the B-12 and PAC could be DEAD by then...Just depends on who moves first between the two...Or if the BIG and SEC smell blood in the water and attack to take four B-12 schools to fill out their conferences to get to 16 teams...IF/WHEN that happens, you can bet you backside that the ACC and PAC would swoop in and take a leftover or two!!!

The BIG would Like Kansas and Oklahoma...MAYBE their "Little Brothers", but I WOULD NOT COUNT ON IT...Texas...NOPE...Nebraska would Pitch-A-Fit!!!

The SEC would take Oklahoma in a NY Minute...Texas...NO CHANCE...Arkansas, Missouri and A&M would vote to block them...So would Florida, Georgia and Kentucky...And IMHO...West Virginia would be a good fit for the SEC!!!

The PAC could make the same offer to the Oklahoma Schools and Texas/Texas Tech as they did in 2011...They should also SERIOUSLY look at adding Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech if they can't get the first four mentioned!!!

The ACC would take Texas in a NY Minute to compliment having Notre Dame!!!

Baylor and TCU would be the teams on the outside looking in...Maybe Iowa State and Kansas State as well...Can't see the ACC, BIG or SEC wanting to add them!!!

:cool:
 
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It's The ACC Show starring ACC fans.

Looks like not many Sooner fans are watching.

The Sooners SHOULD have been "WATCHING" out for what was BEST for them A LOT 'SOONER" than it is now...Yet you're in the spot you're in because of one thing...Texas Admin and Texas Influence...In EVERYTHING...And the LHN...That's what kept you guys out of the PAC in 2011!!!

SOONER or Later something/someone gives...And/Or $#IT hits the fan!!!

:cool:
 
The Sooners SHOULD have been "WATCHING" out for what was BEST for them A LOT 'SOONER" than it is now...Yet you're in the spot you're in because of one thing...Texas Admin and Texas Influence...In EVERYTHING...And the LHN...That's what kept you guys out of the PAC in 2011!!!

SOONER or Later something/someone gives...And/Or $#IT hits the fan!!!

:cool:

Why are you YELLING bro? Are you mad?

The sky isn't falling. The Sooners are doing fine. The planets do not orbit around the ACC. If the Big 12 survives, Oklahoma will stay. If not, they'll be welcomed to any of the conferences. The ACC is way down the list of desirable conferences... like at the bottom. Ask most any Sooner fan. That would be some boring S#IT.

acc_championship_game_crowd_view_2007_empty_stadium_jacksonville_altel_acc_sucks_sux_medium.jpg
 
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Why are you YELLING bro? Are you mad?

The sky isn't falling. The Sooners are doing fine. The planets do not orbit around the ACC. If the Big 12 survives, Oklahoma will stay. If not, they'll be welcomed to any of the conferences. The ACC is way down the list of desirable conferences... like at the bottom. Ask most any Sooner fan. That would be some boring S#IT.

acc_championship_game_crowd_view_2007_empty_stadium_jacksonville_altel_acc_sucks_sux_medium.jpg

Not trying to yell...Trying to state a fact!!!

Yep...The Sooners will be okay...IF the B-12 survives...Or if/when it dies!!!

You will always have a home in the BIG, PAC or SEC...You DON'T fit in the ACC...Just like West Virginia has NO business being in the B-12...And the ACC has no interest in Oklahoma...Now Texas...That's a different story for some God Forsaken Reason!!!

Right now, the B-12 is at the bottom of the list for most P-5 Teams to consider moving to...Texas and the LHN are a big reason why...As well as GOR's in the ACC, BIG and PAC...The SEC has no GOR's, and needs none...And no SEC Team is interested in becoming a lap dog for Texas!!!

History shows/proves teams leave a conference (Arkansas, Colorado, Missouri, Nebraska, Texas A&M), that Texas is a part of...The only teams that have/are trying to become a part of the B-12 are G-5 Teams...Now...Those are the FACTS!!!

:cool:
 
Look at who we're '"hoping" to attract...bottom feeder programs that aren't wanted by any other conferences.

The PAC-12 came in and took Colorado. The Big 10 swooped in and took Nebraska. The SEC came in and stole Texas A&M and Missouri. Do you think there's any reasonable chance the Big Twelve can go to another Power 5 conference and take even their lowest teams like, say, a Vanderbilt from the SEC? If not, that tells you in spades how powerless this conference is. Adding a Houston or BYU or any other team will only dilute the strength of this conference.

If in the first 15 minutes you can't spot the chump at the poker table, guess what...You're the chump. Welcome to the Big 12.
 
I'd like to present an idea that is rarely mentioned. I may be full of it, but I believe it because it accounts for human nature.

I also wanted the PAC, in spite of the distance problems and TV late games. There are just some great--beautiful!--Pacific Coast venues to travel to for fans. However, if you'll recall, Boren more or less asked the PAC for entry a couple of years ago and was turned down quietly (you never do the asking in the open, just like you don't ask the head cheerleader for a date in front of your buddies or the other cheerleaders--refusal is very embarrassing).

Stanford, UCLA, USC and four or five other schools rejected us because of our supposed too-low academics. Come to find out, our academics are just about as good as half the schools in that conference and better than a couple. So, you ask, why did they say no?

It's because they know we'll kick their asses every year in more than one sport, the main one being football. Only USC doesn't fear us in football, although lately they should. I could name 5 or 6 sports in which we would win that conference as often as not.

How many of you invite the schoolyard bully to your birthday party?

So it's FEAR. We'd kick their pathetic asses over and over, and they know it. It has very little to do with academics.

Frankly, I'd be surprised if the SEC wants us, for the same reason. Bama talks a good game, but I'll bet you they would vote no for our entry--even though we are every bit as red-necked as they are and would be a perfect fit in their conference, culturally speaking (sadly).

Scoreboard, baby.
 
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This may be a long post but I'll go with it anyway. First off, at the current time FSU fans in general are very happy in the ACC and hope to be here for a long time now that we have the ACC Network upcoming and we have Notre Dame and other locked in with the Grant of Rights going through 2036.

The thing I wanted to discuss is how we got here. Back in May 2012 there was a lot of unrest in Nole Nation. The ACC was fifth in College Football in annual TV Revenue and FSU's athletic department was running a deficit in spite of our overall success in athletics. We all wanted to go to the Big 12. There was definitely some flirting going on between FSU/Clemson and the Big 12 although I have no idea how serious it got. But had the Big 12 made a formal invite to FSU/Clemson back then there would definitely have been some serious talks going on. Now, there is zero chance that happens. It just shows you how quickly things can change.

So that leads me to the Big 12. Choosing to expand the way they are is the right move. But the Big 12 faces a conundrum on WHO to invite and HOW MANY to invite. In spite of what is said there are some good prospects out there. There just aren't any out there that are currently in Power 5 conferences. I think Houston, BYU, and Cincinnati's potential as athletic program. UCF has a lot of potential too even though they went 0-12 last season. They won the Fiesta Bowl as recently as 2013 and they would open up the Florida TV market as well as the Florida geographic area for recruiting.

But even with that, I think the Big 12 as a whole is in trouble. But I don't think it hurts schools like Oklahoma and Texas although it would hurt the others. The reason I think the Big 12 is in trouble is because if the SEC, ACC, Big 10 or Pac 12 decided to expand again they would obviously come after Oklahoma and Texas and I don't see how Oklahoma and Texas wouldn't seriously consider leaving. I know for a fact that IF Notre Dame ever decides to join the ACC Full Time the ACC will need a 16th team and Oklahoma or Texas would get the first invite as the 16th ACC Team. And in that scenario a boatload of money would be made in the ACC. But as of right now I am aware that all of this is speculative.

Anyway, what are you guys' thoughts on what I mentioned as well as what you think the future of the Big 12 is?
Texas wont go where the LHN cant exist and Oklahoma wont go without Texas...plus the Big XII also has a grant of rights deal just as the ACC does...neither of which cant be broken
 
All these teams that don't add much are a hell of a lot better than Kansas and Iowa St in just about every way with the exception of Kansas basketball.
So, of the two teams you yourself chose to use, 50% of it was wrong by your own admission. Because Kansas is about as elite as you can get in basketball.

1) If you're going to add teams, you HAVE to add value. So, that means a team already in a P5 conference. Even a bottom feeder like Vanderbilt. It's better than any of the ones being discussed. NONE of the other teams being discussed add any value, and in fact hurt the Big Twelve brand.

2) If you're going to add to the conference you have to do one of two things: go east to find your teams, or drop West Virginia and head west. A conference HAS TO BE geographicaly sound. You can't keep WVU if you're going to add an Arizona or an Arizona State. Might as well add the University of Alaska, or some school in France. And you can't head east AND north...sorry UConn. Same reason. That's why I suggested a Vanderbilt, or maybe an Iowa. Still regional, but already members of a P5 conference.

3) If you're going to take a non-P5 team, stop trying to figure out whether Houston or Cincinnati gives you more "splash". You look silly. No non-P5 team you add is going to give you any splash whatsoever. Do what's best for the conference as far as the athlete goes. USF and UCF are no brainers. They're east, which helps if you're going to keep West Virginia, and they open up Florida to Big Twelve recruiting, possibly the most fertile ground in America. And, even though they're commuter schools (so is basically every other team being mentioned, BTW), UCF has a huge alumni base. It's one of the bigger schools in Florida, attendance-wise.
 
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And their 0-12 record shows promise of possibly getting better ... unless they make it to one of the countless bowls and go 0-13.
 
So, of the two teams you yourself chose to use, 50% of it was wrong by your own admission. Because Kansas is about as elite as you can get in basketball.

1) If you're going to add teams, you HAVE to add value. So, that means a team already in a P5 conference. Even a bottom feeder like Vanderbilt. It's better than any of the ones being discussed. NONE of the other teams being discussed add any value, and in fact hurt the Big Twelve brand.

2) If you're going to add to the conference you have to do one of two things: go east to find your teams, or drop West Virginia and head west. A conference HAS TO BE geographicaly sound. You can't keep WVU if you're going to add an Arizona or an Arizona State. Might as well add the University of Alaska, or some school in France. And you can't head east AND north...sorry UConn. Same reason. That's why I suggested a Vanderbilt, or maybe an Iowa. Still regional, but already members of a P5 conference.

3) If you're going to take a non-P5 team, stop trying to figure out whether Houston or Cincinnati gives you more "splash". You look silly. No non-P5 team you add is going to give you any splash whatsoever. Do what's best for the conference as far as the athlete goes. USF and UCF are no brainers. They're east, which helps if you're going to keep West Virginia, and they open up Florida to Big Twelve recruiting, possibly the most fertile ground in America. And, even though they're commuter schools (so is basically every other team being mentioned, BTW), UCF has a huge alumni base. It's one of the bigger schools in Florida, attendance-wise.
Good points....I adhere to the opinion that either OU and Texas get absorbed into another conference or that the Big12 adds two teams that are elite and are geographically sound. But no team in the SEC or Big 10 or ACC will migrate to the Big 12 so OU finding a new conference seems more reasonable, financially and geographically.
 
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Texas will not go to any conference where they cannot be top dog. Texas either stays in the Big 12 or goes independent.

OU and Kansas to the Big 10 sounds about right though.

We in WV would rather be in the ACC strictly for geographical purposes and travel. We like the teams in the Big 12 much better, other than Texas and Baylor.

We are now hoping for expansion to get a big money grab until the current GOR has expired so we can continue the amazing amounts of upgrades and new construction in which we are presently involved.

We feel that the there will be 4 super conferences at 16 each and we will probably be in one back east at that time.

Whats most ironic in alll of this is we owe the most to Texas for getting into the Big 12 and have quickly realized that Texas and their greed is a huge pain in the ass.
 
When people talk about the stability of our conference, I reference this: when was the last time the two leading programs of a conference even contemplated bolting to a new/better conference? Can you see Ohio State and Michigan leaving the Big Ten? Or Alabama and Georgia leave the SEC? Absolutely not.

But OU and Texas not only tested those waters, they dove in head first. They would be gone but for peripheral shenanigans by the PAC-12.
 
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We are looking at a snapshot. It tells nothing about what happened before, and you have to study it. It tells nothing about the future, and we may see new things like telephones and horseless carriages that affect college sports of tomorrow. We just saw an airplane fly a thousand miles without fuel. Kind of eliminates a lot of travel costs. I just don't see a vision that includes the remnants of the Big Twelve.
 
I've been hearing on sports talk radio in ATL that BYU and Houston have applied for instatement into the B12. BYU has said they'll do a football-only contract if that's what the B12 wants and Houston has said they'll improve academics, expand their stadium and has a lot of support with big $$ people around the state and in the capitol to make it happen. Currently, UH has a two-year old 44K stadium, which can be expanded to 60K and for the time being, they have Reliant Stadium when OU and UT come to town. It was also said that for years, UH blocked any attempt by UT to expand it's Houston campus, and now UH has backed off on that stance to get UT's favor.

Personally, I don't like he idea of a conference that stretches across 2/3 of the country, but I'm just a fan, so what do I know?
 
Texas cannot beat K-state year in and year out and K-state has the best facilities. Texas has more revenue than Big 12 teams- population history and student body. You just have not been to the campus in recent years of the new college building and the football stadium/ field. OU has been beaten at OU by K-state at home its last two years by K-state. K-state will be in the top 25 research public colleges by 2023. Academically, it will qualify for the Big Ten; Its facilities and stadiums blows aways 4 to 5 stadiums and university of the Big Ten. Colorado and Nebraska have already admitted to Snyder that they never wished they left the Big 12 last week.K-state is recruiting hard out of Georgia and each recruit is going back and saying its the nothing close of your imagination of what you are thinking what K-State is. They tell all you have to get a schedule a trip to Manhattan. The economy is going bad, police are being killed each day and MAnahattan is all family and midwest traits. Screw Baylor; they can leave. Many writers think you have it figured out; you are short term thinkers. Please watch Europe collapse with Germany - Deutsche Bank and Italy next and let's see where the money is in 2020. It is not going to be in pensions and 401-Ks. You act like noncollege graduates and look like sports writer graduates for the attention today. The Big 12 is smarter than you, I assure you. IF you have read in depth about KU football, it is going to take 5 to 7 years to get a football team. They remind us in the Big 12 KU is a good university but facilities like Northwestern and Purdue. If not for the law school medical school right now they would be in the Mountain West. KU has become nothing than a Colorado University, suburban of Boulder vs Kansas City. It is night and day between K-state and KU right now of campus life, undergraduate study and the football team. Do not go back 5 years, go back 15 years and K-state is right with all of the biggies. Ok, I will agree that we have to control the Kansas city market and Wichita for what you want. K-state has not received any government funds for 12 college buildings in recent years, The football facilities exceed 4 Big Ten teams easily and the academical will exceed 4 schools of the-the Big Ten teams by 2020; In you do not agree, then 2023 for sure. I am sure that K-State will get an invitation before Iowa State and KU to the Big Ten if the Big 12 league breaks up. Do not be the surprise that Colorado and Nebraska do not come back and all is hogwash. Who wants a football atmosphere at Northwestern, Purdue, Indiana, and Minnesota. None of those schools can beat K-state and the KU , Iowa State, and 4 Big ten schools do not have the facilities to match K-State. Minnesota was beat 35 to nothing the last time they came to Manhattan. K-state football beat Tony Romo with the Dallas Cowboys, Carson Palmer twice with USC and at their place, Aaron Rogers at California on a neutral stadium and Donovan McNabb in recent years at a bowl. K-state beat OU at their home the last two years there. Pet Caroll cannot beat K-state at two chances in a row. The game at K-state was not even close per the score, it was oh' um the whole game. It was a boring game a score does not depict the outcome.
K-state played in the first ESPN game ever. K-state - Nebraska was the second game west of the Mississippi River. Was it played in that Great Nebraska stadium? no , it was played in Manhattan, Ks .We lost by 7 points if I remember right. K-state football fell apart during World War II, the draft took all of the farm kids at 18. Read up on this, because you Notre Dame fans did not save us from Japan; it was the farm kids of the hard worker, dirt eaters and people with a fight.
Watch the fallout after the election and let see who is right. We build college buildings and football facilities with personal gifts; you slump people in the city can not give. Who wins this battle for the long run? Sure not your metropolitans schools.
Did not read.
 
Texas cannot beat K-state year in and year out and K-state has the best facilities. Texas has more revenue than Big 12 teams- population history and student body. You just have not been to the campus in recent years of the new college building and the football stadium/ field. OU has been beaten at OU by K-state at home its last two years by K-state. K-state will be in the top 25 research public colleges by 2023. Academically, it will qualify for the Big Ten; Its facilities and stadiums blows aways 4 to 5 stadiums and university of the Big Ten. Colorado and Nebraska have already admitted to Snyder that they never wished they left the Big 12 last week.K-state is recruiting hard out of Georgia and each recruit is going back and saying its the nothing close of your imagination of what you are thinking what K-State is. They tell all you have to get a schedule a trip to Manhattan. The economy is going bad, police are being killed each day and MAnahattan is all family and midwest traits. Screw Baylor; they can leave. Many writers think you have it figured out; you are short term thinkers. Please watch Europe collapse with Germany - Deutsche Bank and Italy next and let's see where the money is in 2020. It is not going to be in pensions and 401-Ks. You act like noncollege graduates and look like sports writer graduates for the attention today. The Big 12 is smarter than you, I assure you. IF you have read in depth about KU football, it is going to take 5 to 7 years to get a football team. They remind us in the Big 12 KU is a good university but facilities like Northwestern and Purdue. If not for the law school medical school right now they would be in the Mountain West. KU has become nothing than a Colorado University, suburban of Boulder vs Kansas City. It is night and day between K-state and KU right now of campus life, undergraduate study and the football team. Do not go back 5 years, go back 15 years and K-state is right with all of the biggies. Ok, I will agree that we have to control the Kansas city market and Wichita for what you want. K-state has not received any government funds for 12 college buildings in recent years, The football facilities exceed 4 Big Ten teams easily and the academical will exceed 4 schools of the-the Big Ten teams by 2020; In you do not agree, then 2023 for sure. I am sure that K-State will get an invitation before Iowa State and KU to the Big Ten if the Big 12 league breaks up. Do not be the surprise that Colorado and Nebraska do not come back and all is hogwash. Who wants a football atmosphere at Northwestern, Purdue, Indiana, and Minnesota. None of those schools can beat K-state and the KU , Iowa State, and 4 Big ten schools do not have the facilities to match K-State. Minnesota was beat 35 to nothing the last time they came to Manhattan. K-state football beat Tony Romo with the Dallas Cowboys, Carson Palmer twice with USC and at their place, Aaron Rogers at California on a neutral stadium and Donovan McNabb in recent years at a bowl. K-state beat OU at their home the last two years there. Pet Caroll cannot beat K-state at two chances in a row. The game at K-state was not even close per the score, it was oh' um the whole game. It was a boring game a score does not depict the outcome.
K-state played in the first ESPN game ever. K-state - Nebraska was the second game west of the Mississippi River. Was it played in that Great Nebraska stadium? no , it was played in Manhattan, Ks .We lost by 7 points if I remember right. K-state football fell apart during World War II, the draft took all of the farm kids at 18. Read up on this, because you Notre Dame fans did not save us from Japan; it was the farm kids of the hard worker, dirt eaters and people with a fight.
Watch the fallout after the election and let see who is right. We build college buildings and football facilities with personal gifts; you slump people in the city can not give. Who wins this battle for the long run? Sure not your metropolitans schools.
 
Texas cannot beat K-state year in and year out and K-state has the best facilities. Texas has more revenue than Big 12 teams- population history and student body. You just have not been to the campus in recent years of the new college building and the football stadium/ field. OU has been beaten at OU by K-state at home its last two years by K-state. K-state will be in the top 25 research public colleges by 2023. Academically, it will qualify for the Big Ten; Its facilities and stadiums blows aways 4 to 5 stadiums and university of the Big Ten. Colorado and Nebraska have already admitted to Snyder that they never wished they left the Big 12 last week.K-state is recruiting hard out of Georgia and each recruit is going back and saying its the nothing close of your imagination of what you are thinking what K-State is. They tell all you have to get a schedule a trip to Manhattan. The economy is going bad, police are being killed each day and MAnahattan is all family and midwest traits. Screw Baylor; they can leave. Many writers think you have it figured out; you are short term thinkers. Please watch Europe collapse with Germany - Deutsche Bank and Italy next and let's see where the money is in 2020. It is not going to be in pensions and 401-Ks. You act like noncollege graduates and look like sports writer graduates for the attention today. The Big 12 is smarter than you, I assure you. IF you have read in depth about KU football, it is going to take 5 to 7 years to get a football team. They remind us in the Big 12 KU is a good university but facilities like Northwestern and Purdue. If not for the law school medical school right now they would be in the Mountain West. KU has become nothing than a Colorado University, suburban of Boulder vs Kansas City. It is night and day between K-state and KU right now of campus life, undergraduate study and the football team. Do not go back 5 years, go back 15 years and K-state is right with all of the biggies. Ok, I will agree that we have to control the Kansas city market and Wichita for what you want. K-state has not received any government funds for 12 college buildings in recent years, The football facilities exceed 4 Big Ten teams easily and the academical will exceed 4 schools of the-the Big Ten teams by 2020; In you do not agree, then 2023 for sure. I am sure that K-State will get an invitation before Iowa State and KU to the Big Ten if the Big 12 league breaks up. Do not be the surprise that Colorado and Nebraska do not come back and all is hogwash. Who wants a football atmosphere at Northwestern, Purdue, Indiana, and Minnesota. None of those schools can beat K-state and the KU , Iowa State, and 4 Big ten schools do not have the facilities to match K-State. Minnesota was beat 35 to nothing the last time they came to Manhattan. K-state football beat Tony Romo with the Dallas Cowboys, Carson Palmer twice with USC and at their place, Aaron Rogers at California on a neutral stadium and Donovan McNabb in recent years at a bowl. K-state beat OU at their home the last two years there. Pet Caroll cannot beat K-state at two chances in a row. The game at K-state was not even close per the score, it was oh' um the whole game. It was a boring game a score does not depict the outcome.
K-state played in the first ESPN game ever. K-state - Nebraska was the second game west of the Mississippi River. Was it played in that Great Nebraska stadium? no , it was played in Manhattan, Ks .We lost by 7 points if I remember right. K-state football fell apart during World War II, the draft took all of the farm kids at 18. Read up on this, because you Notre Dame fans did not save us from Japan; it was the farm kids of the hard worker, dirt eaters and people with a fight.
Watch the fallout after the election and let see who is right. We build college buildings and football facilities with personal gifts; you slump people in the city can not give. Who wins this battle for the long run? Sure not your metropolitans schools.
55-0
 
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