The only coach greater than Bud, Barry & Bob combined.

[12375CAT]

RIP P. Summitt!

 

[humblesooner]

"The only coach greater than Bud, Barry & Bob combined."
Strong statement. I disagree. Pat Summit was a great basketball coach.
However, she was very similar to Geno Auriemo. Geno can hand pick his players and typically ends up with about 12-15 of the top 25-30 in the country and almost always has the single best player in the country.
Everyone else splits up the other 12-15 best and fills their roster with less talented players.
I know recruiting is part of the deal, but there is such an extremely wide talent gap between UCONN and everyone else (and Tennessee and everyone else in Summit's peak), that it is hard to say they were greater coaches than others, who didn't have the talent advantage (and disparity of talent for the competition).
Who knows how Kay Yow, Jody Conradt, etc would have performed with the same talent that Pat enjoyed?
Maybe they were better coaches and would have won 15 NC's over 38 years.

 

[roygbell]

I'm sure lots of folks will disagree with you, including me.

 

[JConXtsy]

I don't know why people keep biting on this cat's drive-bys.

I liken her posts to the CHEAP JERSEYS.

 

[CTOkie]

"The only coach greater than Bud, Barry & Bob combined."
Strong statement. I disagree. Pat Summit was a great basketball coach.
However, she was very similar to Geno Auriemo. Geno can hand pick his players and typically ends up with about 12-15 of the top 25-30 in the country and almost always has the single best player in the country.
Everyone else splits up the other 12-15 best and fills their roster with less talented players.
I know recruiting is part of the deal, but there is such an extremely wide talent gap between UCONN and everyone else (and Tennessee and everyone else in Summit's peak), that it is hard to say they were greater coaches than others, who didn't have the talent advantage (and disparity of talent for the competition).
Who knows how Kay Yow, Jody Conradt, etc would have performed with the same talent that Pat enjoyed?
Maybe they were better coaches and would have won 15 NC's over 38 years.

Summitt put women's basketball on the radar, at least to some degree. Too many fans, especially males, still regard women's BB a secondary sport...some have even referred to it as a garbage sport....which for me destroys their credibility. I enjoy the sport and if John Wooden claimed that the women's game was the only "pure" game of basketball now being played, that's good enough for me.
I can't compare great coaches across timelines or across different sports, but I will say that while Bud, Barry and Bob made OU one of CFB's elite programs since WWII, Summitt was a pioneer in getting women's BB to where it is now...and Geno Auriemma, Muffet McGraw, Sherri Coale and many others have reaped the rewards.
Geno gets great talent, but UConn maintains its level of excellence as much by Geno's coaching aptitude as the talent he brings in. He also recruits the motivation and personality of his players....and if he doesn't like the parents, he backs off, even if it means shunning a highly rated player.

 

[Schoonerman]

Apples and oranges.

 

[BillyRay]

Summitt put women's basketball on the radar, at least to some degree. Too many fans, especially males, still regard women's BB a secondary sport...some have even referred to it as a garbage sport....which for me destroys their credibility. I enjoy the sport and if John Wooden claimed that the women's game was the only "pure" game of basketball now being played, that's good enough for me.
I can't compare great coaches across timelines or across different sports, but I will say that while Bud, Barry and Bob made OU one of CFB's elite programs since WWII, Summitt was a pioneer in getting women's BB to where it is now...and Geno Auriemma, Muffet McGraw, Sherri Coale and many others have reaped the rewards.
Geno gets great talent, but UConn maintains its level of excellence as much by Geno's coaching aptitude as the talent he brings in. He also recruits the motivation and personality of his players....and if he doesn't like the parents, he backs off, even if it means shunning a highly rated player.

I agree with CT here. You can't deny the importance Bud, Barry and Bob have had in OU's success. But that's one program in a particular sport. Pat Summit was more important to her particular sport as a whole in making the entire sport relevant in the nation's eyes, and not just one single program. Without Bud, Barry or Bob at OU, then OU may not be an elite program, but college football would still have reached the level it would have today. Whereas with Pat Summit, women's basketball may very well still be as irrelevant as it was prior to Summit's work at elevating it to the level it is today.

 

[Soonersincefitty]

With all due respect to her feminine gland...
the analogy is quite a stretch.

 

[Oklabama]

There will never be anyone tabbed "the best coach ever" that the vast majority of fans will agree upon, That's what is great about sports and being a sports fan. First of all, it depends on which sport is most important to each individual fan. And, then it goes on from there.

 

[Dastardly Deed]

I was taught tiddlywinks by a nun in grade school. She may have been the best of all time. I was kickin' ass til high school ... then I began watchin' ass.

Probably could have left the final sentence out.

 

[Oklabama]

I was taught tiddlywinks by a nun in grade school. She may have been the best of all time. I was kickin' ass til high school ... then I began watchin' ass.

Probably could have left the final sentence out.

Quadruple "LIKE".

 

[CTOkie]

I was taught tiddlywinks by a nun in grade school. She may have been the best of all time. I was kickin' ass til high school ... then I began watchin' ass.

Probably could have left the final sentence out.

How can a female coach coaching women's basketball be worthy of the praise Summitt has received ? All she did was coach a sport the equivalent of nun-coached tiddlywinks.

 

[12375CAT]

How can a female coach coaching women's basketball be worthy of the praise Summitt has received ? All she did was coach a sport the equivalent of nun-coached tiddlywinks.

(Also) describing Sherry Coale?

 

[CTOkie]

....and maybe Patty Gasso, K.J. Kindler in softball and gymnastics ?

 

[blh111]

RIP P. Summitt!

She won without cheating and did a lot for women sports, a true legend and real winner.

 

[Plainosooner]

She won without cheating and did a lot for women sports, a true legend and real winner.

Uh no. Even the very liberal news magazine 60MInutes! did an expose back 20 years ago about the increasing under the table money flowing in women's college basketball, and UTenn was the top cheater. Not accusing Coach Summitt. But UTenn was bringing in great players for financial reasons for more than a few years.

Saying she was better than any great football coach, is a stretch. When you usually have the best players, doesn't a great coach prove. Saying she's better than all three combined ... no way. I've heard her compared to John Wooden this week. That would be: Hell No!

 

[blh111]

Uh no. Even the very liberal news magazine 60MInutes! did an expose back 20 years ago about the increasing under the table money flowing in women's college basketball, and UTenn was the top cheater. Not accusing Coach Summitt. But UTenn was bringing in great players for financial reasons for more than a few years.

Saying she was better than any great football coach, is a stretch. When you usually have the best players, doesn't a great coach prove. Saying she's better than all three combined ... no way. I've heard her compared to John Wooden this week. That would be: Hell No!

What does any if that have to do with Summit? Was she placed on some type of probation for cheating, that I don't know about. If not, what does your "uh no" mean. She did it the right way...she won without cheating, she did a lot for women sports and she is a legend...all are true. I appreciate people that do it the right way.

 

[CTOkie]

What does any if that have to do with Summit? Was she placed on some type of probation for cheating, that I don't know about. If not, what does your "uh no" mean. She did it the right way...she won without cheating, she did a lot for women sports and she is a legend...all are true. I appreciate people that do it the right way.

Uh no. Even the very liberal news magazine 60MInutes! did an expose back 20 years ago about the increasing under the table money flowing in women's college basketball, and UTenn was the top cheater. Not accusing Coach Summitt. But UTenn was bringing in great players for financial reasons for more than a few years.

Saying she was better than any great football coach, is a stretch. When you usually have the best players, doesn't a great coach prove. Saying she's better than all three combined ... no way. I've heard her compared to John Wooden this week. That would be: Hell No!

She has won 8 national champions and put a sport (women's basketball) on the map almost by herself....then she had players that graduated 100% over her 38 years as coach....aside from winning the most games (1,098) of any basketball coach, male or female.
None of the great male coaches that I know of can claim saving their respective sports from extinction as Summitt did with women's college basketball.
I enjoy watching and following UConn's team under Auriemma. When I watch these games I don't watch women....I watch basketball players.
As for Coach Wooden, it should be remembered that he said he enjoyed the "purity" of the women's game with its fundamentally sound execution and team play. No question there's more athleticism and speed in men's sports, but that's not what has ever been debated. Women's basketball is a quality product these days with Coach Summitt laying the foundation for this to happen.

 

[Plainosooner]

Being the only sixth grade team that wins a fifth and sixth grade league, isn't about being great. I am not trying to diminish the accomplishments of Coach Head Summitt. But to call her greater than great football coaches is as biased as saying some college women's basketball player a better shooter than Larry Bird.

The competition for Larry was a little tougher. And the ball he shot was bigger. Less room in the basket.

And even if she didn't cheat specifically, there was cheating done to her benefit. All NCAA sports have an element of politics involved. Probably none more than women's basketball. If UTenn's program was protected, that wouldn't be a surprise. But big money was spent on Vol women's basketball recruits. She benefitted from that. Thus, the post taking an opposing view from your claim that she won without cheating.

 

[blh111]

Being the only sixth grade team that wins a fifth and sixth grade league, isn't about being great. I am not trying to diminish the accomplishments of Coach Head Summitt. But to call her greater than great football coaches is as biased as saying some college women's basketball player a better shooter than Larry Bird.

The competition for Larry was a little tougher. And the ball he shot was bigger. Less room in the basket.

And even if she didn't cheat specifically, there was cheating done to her benefit. All NCAA sports have an element of politics involved. Probably none more than women's basketball. If UTenn's program was protected, that wouldn't be a surprise. But big money was spent on Vol women's basketball recruits. She benefitted from that. Thus, the post taking an opposing view from your claim that she won without cheating.

I get why you want to believe that everyone cheats to win. She didn't cheat. Your post is meaningless.

 

[CTOkie]

Being the only sixth grade team that wins a fifth and sixth grade league, isn't about being great. I am not trying to diminish the accomplishments of Coach Head Summitt. But to call her greater than great football coaches is as biased as saying some college women's basketball player a better shooter than Larry Bird.

The competition for Larry was a little tougher. And the ball he shot was bigger. Less room in the basket.

And even if she didn't cheat specifically, there was cheating done to her benefit. All NCAA sports have an element of politics involved. Probably none more than women's basketball. If UTenn's program was protected, that wouldn't be a surprise. But big money was spent on Vol women's basketball recruits. She benefitted from that. Thus, the post taking an opposing view from your claim that she won without cheating.

Clearly you ARE diminishing Summitt's achievements, several times over.
No one said she was greater than any of the great football coaches. All that was said is that unlike the great football (or any other sport) coaches, Summitt made her particular sport relevant.
No one said women's basketball was "tougher" than men's BB.
And given OU's many misdeeds over the past 7 decades...at least in the eyes of the NCAA....I would be careful about attacking other schools who may or may not have committed cheating or have benefited from cheating....or who have had athletes who have committed crimes or "academic fraud".
You don't like women's basketball over men's basketball. Nothing is wrong with that at all. I don't like hockey, tractor pulls, NBA basketball and dwarf throwing. But spare us the misogynistic BS based on your perceived "liberal" bias....that has nothing to do with Summitt's greatness. Do that while you write your long analogies about Coach Gasso's team or Coach Coale's team.

 

[Plainosooner]

No one said she was greater than any of the great football coaches.

Actually, that's exactly what the headline said.

 

[CTOkie]

Actually, that's exactly what the headline said.

If one (not you, of course) refers to the number of national championships Summitt's teams won (8), which exceeded Wilkinson's, Switzer's and Stoops' individual totals, as well as OU's overall total of 7....and more than Saban, Bryant, Leahy, McKay, Osbourne, Rockne....then her numbers were "greater".
And how many of these coaches graduated 100% of their players and were able to keep them in line ?

 

[Plainosooner]

She coached teams that a group of really good high school boys could beat, likely pretty handily.

Saying she's a better coach than Bud, or Barry or Bob, is like saying the the football coaches at Allen High School or Jenks or Union are too. The latter would be closer to the truth. But none would be close.

 

[CTOkie]

She coached teams that a group of really good high school boys could beat, likely pretty handily.

Saying she's a better coach than Bud, or Barry or Bob, is like saying the the football coaches at Allen High School or Jenks or Union are too. The latter would be closer to the truth. But none would be close.

Her achievements surpass BB&B in terms of championships. No one is debating this as a male vs female issue except you. Get over it.

 

[blh111]

She coached teams that a group of really good high school boys could beat, likely pretty handily.

Saying she's a better coach than Bud, or Barry or Bob, is like saying the the football coaches at Allen High School or Jenks or Union are too. The latter would be closer to the truth. But none would be close.

What do guys being able to beat girls at basketball, have to do with anything? Was there a point to that?

 

[BillyRay]

She coached teams that a group of really good high school boys could beat, likely pretty handily.

This is maybe one of the most disgusting comments in this thread.

 

[Oklabama]

This is maybe one of the most disgusting comments in this thread.

Absolutely. Whete did that even come from? Sounds like a sexist problem to me. Always complaining about the money that the football team has to share with the women. Now this. It's a head scratcher.

 

[Plainosooner]

This is maybe one of the most disgusting comments in this thread.

Why? Because it's true. I've seen high school freshmen teams where half the kids can dunk the ball. It's part of the reason why college women's teams use high school male basketball players who are playing on college intramural teams, to be the scout team for their varsity players. Most of the best women's teams do it.

When there is no playing above the rim, it's a very different game. It makes it less likely that a less talented team can beat a more talented team. Is Allen Trimble a better football coach because he has more championships that Bud, Barry or Bob? Of course not. It's because he clearly has better talent than everybody else, except maybe one team.

Pat Summitt was a quality women's basketball coach. Maybe the second best ever. But her talent couldn't compete against the best high school boys teams in the country, where half the team plays above the rim. If they played with the same ball, they'd shoot 25% against that talent. You can deny it all you want, but it's true. The athleticism difference would be remarkable.

If you think that dominating a lesser game with less athletic talent makes her a better coach than somebody like Rick Pitino or Lon Kruger, then you can delude yourself. She is one of the great women's coaches of all times. But she's coaching in a level less talented than boys in summer league teams. It makes it easier to coach. Saying that she is a better coach than somebody who an elite college football coach is absurb. More absurd than saying Trimble is a better coach that BStoops.

And before you disagree, just remember what happened to Todd Dodge, when he started in Division I. He'd won 79 or his previous 80 games in the most competitive high school football class in the country.

 

[BillyRay]

Why? Because it's true. I've seen high school freshmen teams where half the kids can dunk the ball. It's part of the reason why college women's teams use high school male basketball players who are playing on college intramural teams, to be the scout team for their varsity players. Most of the best women's teams do it.

When there is no playing above the rim, it's a very different game. It makes it less likely that a less talented team can beat a more talented team. Is Allen Trimble a better football coach because he has more championships that Bud, Barry or Bob? Of course not. It's because he clearly has better talent than everybody else, except maybe one team.

Pat Summitt was a quality women's basketball coach. Maybe the second best ever. But her talent couldn't compete against the best high school boys teams in the country, where half the team plays above the rim. If they played with the same ball, they'd shoot 25% against that talent. You can deny it all you want, but it's true. The athleticism difference would be remarkable.

If you think that dominating a lesser game with less athletic talent makes her a better coach than somebody like Rick Pitino or Lon Kruger, then you can delude yourself. She is one of the great women's coaches of all times. But she's coaching in a level less talented than boys in summer league teams. It makes it easier to coach. Saying that she is a better coach than somebody who an elite college football coach is absurb. More absurd than saying Trimble is a better coach that BStoops.

And before you disagree, just remember what happened to Todd Dodge, when he started in Division I. He'd won 79 or his previous 80 games in the most competitive high school football class in the country.

What's really amazing is your attempt to defend your previous ridiculous comment.

What makes you think that whether Pat Summit's teams could or could not have been beaten by high school boys has ANY relevancy in regards to this discussion or thread topic?? I am utterly amazed that you have decided to take that type of approach in your attempt to degrade what Pat Summit accomplished in her career.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret that pretty much the entire sporting world already knows....and that is any particular sport is based on competing against your PEERS!!!! It's like trying to degrade OUs football national titles by saying they dominated a "lesser game" cuz they didn't have to play against NFL caliber talent. But Plaino, you actually took it to an even more extreme and turned this into a "boys beating girls" type of comparison.

Plaino, really take a step back and think very hard at what you are trying to argue here. Seriously....think long and hard about this before saying others are absurd......

 

[CTOkie]

Captain Obvious keeps referring to the athletic differences between the sexes, which is totally irrelevant (and unfair) and is not even being debated.
The women's game features more ball movement (passing) to get the best shot and better team play....below the rim....as it once was in all of basketball. It's what Coach Wooden referred to as a "pure" form of basketball.
Let's lose the cave man rhetoric about women being unable to compete with men. It's both stupid and childish....and that fact is not what should be discussed here. Could Chris Evert beat a male player ? Could OU softball pitcher Paige Parker retire a major league batter ? Is this what we should be focused on when discussing women's sports ?
Today there is a avalanche of coverage for men's sports when compared to women's sports, so when one prominent female sports figure is lauded as being great, it's all about liberal bias or political correctness by some.
I believe the game of basketball is better today because of the emergence and evolution of women's basketball.....and women's sports in general.
Personally, I like watching college players who I see as being more coach-able, disciplined and motivated and who are by far more worthy of being called "student athletes".

 

[humblesooner]

I've been away for a few days.
Plaino has gotten a little deeper than I, but I think we are in agreement on the original poster.
Take a look at the title of this thread. Not only did the Wusscat say Summit was better than Bud, Barry and Bob COMBINED, he/she said Summit is the ONLY coach who was better than those three combined.
In my arguments, I gave Pat Summit a lot of credit for what she did for Tennessee and for women's BB.
But, I took issue with Wusscat's claim that she was the only coach greater than Bud, Barry and Bob combined.
I don't care that it was OU's coaches used for the bait. It could have been Nick Saban, Pete Carroll and Bo Schembechler.
I still would have disagreed.

 

[CTOkie]

I've been away for a few days.
Plaino has gotten a little deeper than I, but I think we are in agreement on the original poster.
Take a look at the title of this thread. Not only did the Wusscat say Summit was better than Bud, Barry and Bob COMBINED, he/she said Summit is the ONLY coach who was better than those three combined.
In my arguments, I gave Pat Summit a lot of credit for what she did for Tennessee and for women's BB.
But, I took issue with Wusscat's claim that she was the only coach greater than Bud, Barry and Bob combined.
I don't care that it was OU's coaches used for the bait. It could have been Nick Saban, Pete Carroll and Bo Schembechler.
I still would have disagreed.

I interpret the title of this thread as it relates to the number of championships Summitt compiled...more than not only the three Oklahoma coaches, but any coach at any sport since Wooden retired.
If it is meant another way, then we're debating "apples and oranges".

 

[BillyRay]

Captain Obvious keeps referring to the athletic differences between the sexes, which is totally irrelevant (and unfair) and is not even being debated.
The women's game features more ball movement (passing) to get the best shot and better team play....below the rim....as it once was in all of basketball. It's what Coach Wooden referred to as a "pure" form of basketball.
Let's lose the cave man rhetoric about women being unable to compete with men. It's both stupid and childish....and that fact is not what should be discussed here. Could Chris Evert beat a male player ? Could OU softball pitcher Paige Parker retire a major league batter ? Is this what we should be focused on when discussing women's sports ?
Today there is a avalanche of coverage for men's sports when compared to women's sports, so when one prominent female sports figure is lauded as being great, it's all about liberal bias or political correctness by some.
I believe the game of basketball is better today because of the emergence and evolution of women's basketball.....and women's sports in general.
Personally, I like watching college players who I see as being more coach-able, disciplined and motivated and who are by far more worthy of being called "student athletes".

When reading Plaino's posts in this thread, I can't help but wonder what coaches like Sherri Coale, Patti Gasso, or K.J. Kindler would say about Plaino's claim that their women's teams are a "lesser game" since they don't have to compete against men, or even high school boys. I'm sure those coaches would be less than impressed with his demeaning thoughts on their professions and accomplishments.

 

[Plainosooner]

A poster comes here to say that a lady who had almost no competition for years is a better coach than the best three coaches combined in the history of our school. And you fuss at me for saying that Bud, Barry and Bob are better.

Now you'd be what I call, demeaning. I know that Bob and Barry don't care what you think. Even if you're so obviously wrong.

Better passing? Really? You can see better passing with high school guys at the rec gym with no coaching. It's a totally different game. With no players above the rim, she coached checkers for years, against teams with less talented checkers, while the other guys you poo poo so frequently coach chess. It's not close. BIlly and Okie, I really didn't know you were girls, and would get your feelings hurt so easily.

 

[BillyRay]

A poster comes here to say that a lady who had almost no competition for years is a better coach than the best three coaches combined in the history of our school. And you fuss at me for saying that Bud, Barry and Bob are better.

So what's next...you gonna start degrading what Patti Gasso has done with OU softball since they would prolly be beaten very handily by a high school boys baseball team?? You say Pat Summitt faced no competition. If that were true, then she should have been winning national titles every single year right?? She won 8 natty's in 38 years. Looks to me like she ran into plenty of competition along the way. Her teams competed at the highest level against their PEERS. I really don't understand how that concept is going over your head. You say women's basketball was a "lesser game with lesser athletic talent". Well that applies to Pat Summitt's teams as well. She had to recruit from the same national talent pool that every women's basketball program had to pull from as well. So the playing field was level for all programs involved in women's basketball. So it's irrelevant as to how well women's basketball stacks up against men's or "high school boys" basketball. She found a way to win in her specific environment, and for some reason that makes you unbelievable jealous Plaino.

Now you'd be what I call, demeaning. I know that Bob and Barry don't care what you think. Even if you're so obviously wrong.

Well, if people disagreeing with you and taking your sexist comments and posts meant to degrade women's sports to task is your definition of "demeaning", then maybe message boards aren't your flavor. Maybe you should get back to surrounding yourself with a close circle of friends who perfectly mirror your opinions and beliefs, and give your egotistical attitude the attention it requires.

BIlly and Okie, I really didn't know you were girls, and would get your feelings hurt so easily.

Okay, so now you are resorting to belittling little comments now?? That really does paint the picture that your attempt to steer the conversation in this thread to your liking has failed, and now you are getting desperate. Look Plaino, if you don't like the idea of women's sports, or the coaches of those sports, being held in the same regard as OU football coaches, then maybe you need to build a cabin in the mountains and seclude yourself from reality. That way you can build your shrine to Bud, Barry and Bob, and convince yourself that no other coaches in history compare, especially coaches in women's sports whom you deem are coaching lesser games with lesser athletic talent.

God almighty....you may have about the worst case of sexist jealously I've ever encountered. And you actually have the gall to accuse others of getting their feelings hurt?? Good grief this is legit cuz I really don't think anyone could actually make up something this comical and ridiculous.....

 

[CTOkie]

A poster comes here to say that a lady who had almost no competition for years is a better coach than the best three coaches combined in the history of our school. And you fuss at me for saying that Bud, Barry and Bob are better.

Now you'd be what I call, demeaning. I know that Bob and Barry don't care what you think. Even if you're so obviously wrong.

Better passing? Really? You can see better passing with high school guys at the rec gym with no coaching. It's a totally different game. With no players above the rim, she coached checkers for years, against teams with less talented checkers, while the other guys you poo poo so frequently coach chess. It's not close. BIlly and Okie, I really didn't know you were girls, and would get your feelings hurt so easily.

I don't compare a women's basketball coach with a college football coach anymore than I would compare a women's softball coach, ie. Gasso, with Giants manager Bruce Bochy. Two different sports....apples and oranges.
All I know is that Summitt, and now Auriemma (who was once contacted by OU to be its MENS coach), have won more championships than any college football coach....but it's a comparison of numbers only. Nothing more, nothing less.
I prefer watching the UConn women's team over the men's game because I view it the same way Coach Wooden viewed it. Plaino, you've never watched a UConn women's game and obviously never will...you have no clue what you're talking about here. Try not to be offended, but John Wooden might know a bit more about basketball...and coaching...than you.
Feelings hurt ? We're "fussing" at you for saying Bud, Barry and Bob are better ? We're "demeaning" Wilkinson, Switzer and Stoops ? We're "girls" ?
Good grief, Plaino.

 

[bcsoonerfan]

I don't know of a team sport that can be dominated by an individual more so than basketball, and maybe even to a stronger extent, women's college bball.

Without getting into the measuring contest, I will say that it seems like women's college ball is the most unbalanced and predictable of collegiate athletics.