"Stress of off-field misconduct ate at Bob Stoops"......

[CTOkie]

according to Carlson's article in the Oklahoman.
The article does not mention if Stoops ever came public with this, but it's possible that the many misdeeds plagued him significantly.
My opinion is that misdeeds by players, if handled with a zero tolerance policy early in a coach's time with a team....from day 1.....would go a long way in at least reducing problems. This never happened during Stoops' tenure that I recall and makes me wonder if there were other episodes that were never known or reported.
It would also be a good idea to "recruit" (get to know better) high school players' parents, guardians and teachers.
A hall of fame coach I know of has said that if he's recruiting a player and doesn't like the player's parents or guardians, he backs off. This philosophy has had everything to do with his success. A coach can tell parents of a recruit that he will "Guide 'em, Teach 'em, Direct 'em", but the foundation has to be built by the parents first.
I strongly believe that as long as there are not measures to keep players in line, problems will continue and OU's image will continue to face criticism.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Well that's one take. But many, many athletes are from poor hoods, single parent and a lot of cases no parent households. I'm a believer that all kids should be given the opportunity regardless of their economic, social, and/or parental situation. Yes, there are Sterling Shepards out there. But they are far and few in between.

 

[soonerdave]

My opinion is that misdeeds by players, if handled with a zero tolerance policy early in a coach's time with a team....from day 1.....would go a long way in at least reducing problems...A hall of fame coach I know of has said that if he's recruiting a player and doesn't like the player's parents or guardians, he backs off. This philosophy has had everything to do with his success. A coach can tell parents of a recruit that he will "Guide 'em, Teach 'em, Direct 'em", but the foundation has to be built by the parents first.

Not sure what you mean by "...early in a coach's time...", but if you're saying zero tolerance early, then let off the reins, I would partially buy into that, but obviously they couldn't let off too much. In terms of the HOF coach, that seems to be quite a shitty attitude. Maybe the coach is exactly who the player needs in his life at that particular time, despite the parents. To pass on a scholarship-level athlete simply because of they parents may have worked for him, but that just means he likely missed out on potentially changing the life of at least one young man.

 

[Plainosooner]

I think Bob's view is pretty close to perfect. You don't have a "zero tolerance policy" for the first offense. But after that, you have a very short leash. A lot of God's grace in Bob's way of doing things.

I don't think it was Bob's policy that might have made it tough on OUr former HC. I think it was the perception of it, which is about what you'd expect from a bunch of journalists and SEC biased haters.

 

[CTOkie]

Not sure what you mean by "...early in a coach's time...", but if you're saying zero tolerance early, then let off the reins, I would partially buy into that, but obviously they couldn't let off too much. In terms of the HOF coach, that seems to be quite a shitty attitude. Maybe the coach is exactly who the player needs in his life at that particular time, despite the parents. To pass on a scholarship-level athlete simply because of they parents may have worked for him, but that just means he likely missed out on potentially changing the life of at least one young man.

1...."early in a coaches time with a given team" means as a coach begins his tenure at a school. Is that difficult ?
2....no one should be discriminated against for their race, etc. But that's beside the point I'm trying to make. A coach has every right to scrutinize a recruit's behavior/upbringing, and not just his athletic talent.....in the same way the recruit and his family are scrutinizing the coach and the university. A player can come from a bad neighborhood, but at some point, that can't always be an excuse to act like a punk or a thug.
I believe that this is the world we live in and it's doubtful anything will get better. My beliefs are quixotic, but they exist with good intentions. I'm guilty of wishful thing here.
But there has to be some limit to the win-at-all-cost mentality.

 

[iasooner1]

At OU, we have to 'prove to the world' that we are trying to do things correctly. IF we succeed we are always one heartbeat away from the Ncaa prying eyes, unlike a lot of other schools/conferences. That's the way its been since Bud built the monster

 

[CTOkie]

At OU, we have to 'prove to the world' that we are trying to do things correctly. IF we succeed we are always one heartbeat away from the Ncaa prying eyes, unlike a lot of other schools/conferences. That's the way its been since Bud built the monster

iasooner, you said it better.....and quicker....than I did.

 

[soonerdave]

1...."early in a coaches time with a given team" means as a coach begins his tenure at a school. Is that difficult ?

You don't have to get snotty about it. All I did was try to make sure I was clear on your meaning with "...early in a coach's time..." before I responded.

 

[iasooner1]

Sometimes I can spit out a 'winner'...

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

1...."early in a coaches time with a given team" means as a coach begins his tenure at a school. Is that difficult ?
2....no one should be discriminated against for their race, etc. But that's beside the point I'm trying to make. A coach has every right to scrutinize a recruit's behavior/upbringing, and not just his athletic talent.....in the same way the recruit and his family are scrutinizing the coach and the university. A player can come from a bad neighborhood, but at some point, that can't always be an excuse to act like a punk or a thug.
I believe that this is the world we live in and it's doubtful anything will get better. My beliefs are quixotic, but they exist with good intentions. I'm guilty of wishful thing here.
But there has to be some limit to the win-at-all-cost mentality.

I think you're off base big time. Sunderland, by all indications, including his family, was a very good kid. I think you automatically assume that because a player goes bad, there is some level of blame on the recruiting coach. That just isn't the case. It wasn't the case w/ Mixon either.

 

[CTOkie]

I think you're off base big time. Southerland, by all indications, including his family, was a very good kid. I think you automatically assume that because a player goes bad, there is some level of blame on the recruiting coach. That just isn't the case. It wasn't the case w/ Mixon either.

It's Sunderland by the way.
Not assuming anything about him, so I am not blaming coaches. Stuff like this happens everywhere. No program can be airtight.
How OU deals with Sunderland is what matters now....and the evidence does not look good for him at this time.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

It's Sunderland by the way.
Not assuming anything about him, so I am not blaming coaches. Stuff like this happens everywhere. No program can be airtight.
How OU deals with Sunderland is what matters now....and the evidence does not look good for him at this time.

Sunderland it is. Glad you're in the backing up mode to your previous comments.

 

[Soonerava]

Maybe Stoops just felt like retiring...everyone is reaching since nothing came out before he stepped away

 

[CTOkie]

Sunderland it is. Glad you're in the backing up mode to your previous comments.

No back up mode at all. Reducing the crap that goes on would be good for OU's program and reputation.
Evidently, you're okay with status quo on players' misdeeds as long as it doesn't get in the way of winning 80% of the games played.

 

[outed77]

It is very hard on a coach to face the media as it gets more critical of ever thing as time goes by. Then to face all the problems of the football squad on a day by day head coach. Stoops faced the Joe Mixon problems with so much publicity figured in his retirement and now other problems on the team. The time he spent away from his family while his 2 sons grew up was a 365 day job. Coaching burnout happens all the time and I feel this happened to Bob Stoops

 

[veritas59]

according to Carlson's article in the Oklahoman.
The article does not mention if Stoops ever came public with this, but it's possible that the many misdeeds plagued him significantly.
My opinion is that misdeeds by players, if handled with a zero tolerance policy early in a coach's time with a team....from day 1.....would go a long way in at least reducing problems. This never happened during Stoops' tenure that I recall and makes me wonder if there were other episodes that were never known or reported.
It would also be a good idea to "recruit" (get to know better) high school players' parents, guardians and teachers.
A hall of fame coach I know of has said that if he's recruiting a player and doesn't like the player's parents or guardians, he backs off. This philosophy has had everything to do with his success. A coach can tell parents of a recruit that he will "Guide 'em, Teach 'em, Direct 'em", but the foundation has to be built by the parents first.
I strongly believe that as long as there are not measures to keep players in line, problems will continue and OU's image will continue to face criticism.

That was an op-ed with a "news" headline. It may or may not be true, but it is only conjecture by the writer and it should have been headlined as such. Fake news.

 

[CTOkie]

That was an op-ed with a "news" headline. It may or may not be true, but it is only conjecture by the writer and it should have been headlined as such. Fake news.

I implied this in my first entry in this thread....as far as it being conjecture by Carlson....whether or not it's fake news remains to be proven and Stoops would never admit it if it where true.

 

[OUSOONER67]

Maybe he just got tired of fans bitchin. Ever think of that?

 

[CTOkie]

Maybe he just got tired of fans bitchin. Ever think of that?

Comes with the territory....everywhere.
And OU made it worth his while.

 

[iasooner1]

In spades, as they say

 

[theSeanDon]

Bob didn't let loser journalists get under his skin. He wanted to see his kids play football for their senior year. He couldn't do that as head coach. He also didn't like to recruit. He has plenty of money and doesn't need to work anymore.

Adrian Peterson's dad was in jail when he was a recruit. So Bob shouldn't have recruited him?

I feel bad for fans who actually care about the crap journalists and opposing fan bases think about ou. When they bring up off the field issues it is because they can't bring up what happened on the field.

 

[iasooner1]

EXCELLENT point SeanDon ! Although I double dog betcha there were layers of red tape to wade through before they cut the check; the ncaa had to be greased to allow us to get through that one

 

[soonerdave]

Bob didn't let loser journalists get under his skin. He wanted to see his kids play football for their senior year. He couldn't do that as head coach. He also didn't like to recruit. He has plenty of money and doesn't need to work anymore.

Adrian Peterson's dad was in jail when he was a recruit. So Bob shouldn't have recruited him?

I feel bad for fans who actually care about the crap journalists and opposing fan bases think about ou. When they bring up off the field issues it is because they can't bring up what happened on the field.

It's needless to say Bob was always aware of his health risk, but I think the tipping point for him to begin seriously considering "retirement" was his meeting with Urban during Urban's pre-book research. The timing seems about right, and perhaps actually talking face to face with a peer who has kids and experienced a medical issue of his own became that tipping point for Bob.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

No back up mode at all. Reducing the crap that goes on would be good for OU's program and reputation.
Evidently, you're okay with status quo on players' misdeeds as long as it doesn't get in the way of winning 80% of the games played.

Damn CT... you're sooo reading my posts wrong. Perhaps I'm reading yours wrong as well. You have often blamed Stoops for accepting troubled kids. And often insinuate that these kids should be vetted before they are offered a scholly. I somewhat agree w/ you. BUT... I also see first hand that some of the kids that have gone bad were in fact GOOD kids from good families.

You can bitch all you want. But tell me exactly what you would do to prevent the screw ups of a kid like Sunderland. Convince me that he wasn't vetted.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Bob didn't let loser journalists get under his skin. He wanted to see his kids play football for their senior year. He couldn't do that as head coach. He also didn't like to recruit. He has plenty of money and doesn't need to work anymore.

Adrian Peterson's dad was in jail when he was a recruit. So Bob shouldn't have recruited him?

I feel bad for fans who actually care about the crap journalists and opposing fan bases think about ou. When they bring up off the field issues it is because they can't bring up what happened on the field.

My point exactly. Some feel personally ashamed and embarrassed for their team when things don't go right. They throw out words like 'reputation'. I laugh.

 

[CTOkie]

Nothing for me to be "ashamed and embarrassed" about here. Tell that to the media, above and beyond Jenni Carlson.
I'm tired of hearing about the crap that goes on each year.
And I realize that it will continue at OU and across the country. Injuries, transfers and today, more than ever, suspensions and dismissals have to be figured in to teams' fortunes.
Whether or not Stoops retired, in part, because of off the field problems will not ever be revealed...and I understand why Stoops would keep it to himself as he resigned. He was wise to do so.....if true....for the sake of the program.
Anyway, WNAS, your post of 10:26 pm indicated that to some extent, we are on the same page. But if my concern on this is humorous to you, so be it.

 

[FirecrackerFarts]

OUr

You are one of those guys? OUt at the "OUr"....

 

[Plainosooner]

You are one of those guys? OUt at the "OUr"....

I almost always do it here. And I do it a bunch generally. I have to correct it in emails to remove it when l spell OUr.

As it relates to you I'd spell bUTt like this.

 

[opk]

I think you're off base big time. Sunderland, by all indications, including his family, was a very good kid. I think you automatically assume that because a player goes bad, there is some level of blame on the recruiting coach. That just isn't the case. It wasn't the case w/ Mixon either.

Mixon's "case" was that he was provoked beyond the boiling point and he lost his temper. No way could he have been vetted to show that.

 

[CTOkie]

Mixon's "case" was that he was provoked beyond the boiling point and he lost his temper. No way could he have been vetted to show that.

Mixon propositioned Molitor outside the sandwich shop and was turned down......then he followed her inside wanting to either try his luck again or to insult Molitor and her friend. Who provoked who ?

 

[Tank Gossage]

Mixon propositioned Molitor outside the sandwich shop and was turned down......then he followed her inside wanting to either try his luck again or to insult Molitor and her friend. Who provoked who ?

That's her story... It helps with the "victim" card.

 

[FirecrackerFarts]

I almost always do it here. And I do it a bunch generally. I have to correct it in emails to remove it when l spell OUr.

As it relates to you I'd spell bUTt like this.

Is that all you got? I see yOU all around the board talkin' down on folks. I assume you lost alot of fist fights growin up, come back.

 

[CTOkie]

That's her story... It helps with the "victim" card.

The security camera reveals Mixon entering the shop after the confrontation outside. While Molitor started the physical part of the confrontation, I agree with her testimony to police as to what led up to her hitting poor defenseless little Mixon after his continuation of the exchange.
And as Mixon said in his press conference "It's all on me".

 

[Tank Gossage]

The security camera reveals Mixon entering the shop after the confrontation outside. While Molitor started the physical part of the confrontation, I agree with her testimony to police as to what led up to her hitting poor defenseless little Mixon after his continuation of the exchange.
And as Mixon said in his press conference "It's all on me".

She called him over inside as well... By the letter of the law, Mixon should never have had charges filed against him. End of story.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Mixon propositioned Molitor outside the sandwich shop and was turned down......then he followed her inside wanting to either try his luck again or to insult Molitor and her friend. Who provoked who ?

It isn't a matter of who provoked who.
Your point has been the Coaches should be vetting the players better in an effort reduce embarrassment to you and all others that support OU. Mixon, by all reports was a great kid from a good family. He graduated on time w/ good grades and had no known reported issues and/or question marks surrounding him.

How could he have been vetted better to the point that he would not have been offered a scholly?

 

[Tank Gossage]

It isn't a matter of who provoked who.
Your point has been the Coaches should be vetting the players better in an effort reduce embarrassment to you and all others that support OU. Mixon, by all reports was a great kid from a good family. He graduated on time w/ good grades and had no known reported issues and/or question marks surrounding him.

How could he have been vetted better to the point that he would not have been offered a scholly?

THIS.

 

[CTOkie]

It isn't a matter of who provoked who.
Your point has been the Coaches should be vetting the players better in an effort reduce embarrassment to you and all others that support OU. Mixon, by all reports was a great kid from a good family. He graduated on time w/ good grades and had no known reported issues and/or question marks surrounding him.

How could he have been vetted better to the point that he would not have been offered a scholly?

I believe Molitor's testimony. Most here do not and chirp that she got what she deserved, a hit that could have been fatal. You believe what you want....I'll believe what I want.
Having been through the Switzer saga of shootings and gang rapes on campus, then the crap that's been pulled in recent years, my feelings are not those of embarrassment but of being annoyed at what seems to be an annual event. Plain and simple.

 

[BillyRay]

Maybe he just got tired of fans bitchin. Ever think of that?

If this is the case, then he did the right thing by retiring. OU needs a coach with skin thick enough to take it.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

I believe Molitor's testimony. Most here do not and chirp that she got what she deserved, a hit that could have been fatal. You believe what you want....I'll believe what I want.
Having been through the Switzer saga of shootings and gang rapes on campus, then the crap that's been pulled in recent years, my feelings are not those of embarrassment but of being annoyed at what seems to be an annual event. Plain and simple.

OK, so it was Mixon's fault. For the sake of this argument, I'll go w/ you and take this position as well. So now respond, how could Stoops & Co. vetted this kid better to save you from being annoyed?

 

[CTOkie]

OK, so it was Mixon's fault. For the sake of this argument, I'll go w/ you and take this position as well. So now respond, how could Stoops & Co. vetted this kid better to save you from being annoyed?

A midnight curfew for incoming freshmen to start.....let recruits know this up front. It's hard to argue that Mixon would not have benefitted from such a policy.
Talk to family, friends coaches and teachers at the kid's hometown.
Attract players that are selfless, tough, team-oriented and enthusiastic....players that a coach wants to coach with solid practice habits.
If a "bad apple" slips through the cracks, react fairly but decisively.
And don't bring in a player from another school with questionable character, as in the case of Dorial Green-Beckum.