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So is it Stoops or Riley's fault

It would have to come down on Riley’s (and Grinch’s) shoulders to get things right. Preparation was highly questionable for K-State game...and we looked gassed in Iowa State game at the end. Like lucky to hold on gassed. Can’t expect miracles but should expect better play this time of the year. No matter how saggy the other opponent appears or is.
 
In my opinion both of Riley and Stoops are at fault for where the defense is right now. The last few years that Stoops was here I didn't think he did a great job of recruiting on the defensive side of the ball. Coach Riley hasn't put enough of an emphasis on the defense.
 
People got excited after a few meaningless games against inferior competition. I expected the D to be maybe a little better this year but not a lot and that is what has happened. Grinch can't come in here and work miracles in one season with most of the same players. However, we do need to see continued improvement on the field and in recruiting. Only then can we make a fair judgment
 
In my opinion both of Riley and Stoops are at fault for where the defense is right now. The last few years that Stoops was here I didn't think he did a great job of recruiting on the defensive side of the ball. Coach Riley hasn't put enough of an emphasis on the defense.
Defense has long been OU's biggest problem, in terms of talent level, coaching and a bad reputation.
So many games in recent years have required 40-50....sometimes 60...........points to win. And this also has been too prevalent in most of OU's biggest games.
I'm now believing that Brent Venables left OU after the 2011 season as he had problems with, 1) Mike Stoops and the protection he had with his brother being head coach, and 2) OU's prioritizing high scoring offenses and treating defense with much less regard, both in coaching and recruiting.
Defense hasn't been in OU's "DNA" for a decade now, from when an 8-5 team yielded only 189 points in 2009 with an injury-riddled roster that lost four very close games by a total of 12 points, two being one point losses.
The length of time that OU has been with poor-mediocre defenses will be hard to overcome due to its now "Texas Tech North" defensive reputation.
Grinch may be a good coach, but I'm not sure if he will be able to give OU a defense that the offense can be proud of. It looks to be a very difficult task ahead and so far, improvement....if any.....is very marginal.
 
BUT THEN; the no fun league wants Big offense so will that keep driving that side of the product over the "big bad dangerous defense" side of the equation which looks to be being driven out by some in these perilous days of ever-increasing player safety rule change...?
 
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BUT THEN; the no fun league wants Big offense so will that keep driving that side of the product over the "big bad dangerous defense" side of the equation which looks to be being driven out by some in these perilous days of ever-increasing player safety rule change...?

I continue to hear this argument. Like why do programs have to choose. What happened to setting equal goals for fielding the best offense and defense in the country? We once had one of the most explosive offenses and stingiest defenses in the nation year in and year out. Why is that so difficult to do now? There’s always programs that have great play on both sides of the ball every year yet for some reason it seems B12 coaches feel that’s not possible. If that’s actually the case I don’t ever expect to see another national championship for OU. Just take a look at all our past championship teams. None of them fielded as sorry a defense as we’ve had to endure the past few years. That sucked because we’ve had some of the best offensive teams in our history during that time. I don’t know about you guys but I’m tried of settling for 4th place.
 
I'm Old School, for sure! I'm also partial to Defense, and believe in the tried and true cliches...Defense Wins Ball Games...The Best Offense is a Good Defense, and on and on. If I had to choose between the two, as my favorite, I'd have to cop to a coin toss. I'd just as soon see a Goal-Line-Stand as a TD, in many cases! It's been tooooooo long since I got to enjoy one of those Defensive Highlight Moments on the Big Stage...
 
I'm thinking the near loss to ISU was mostly on the play calling, which led to OU's inability to sustain drives in the second half after going up 42-21. Combined with two turnovers on our end of the field on our last two possessions, which kept the D on the field too long (throw in a few missed tackles) and gave ISU a chance to win.

I do think there has been some improvement in the D and we should be excited about the potential for getting even better. However, the embarrassing loss to KSU and the ugly win vs. ISU certainly show there is much work to be done if OU is to be a CFP worthy team.

I'm not so much concerned about what Grinch is trying to implement as I am the talent he was left when Stoops departed. I'm sure the guys have bought in and are doing their best, but seems like OU is short a few blue-chip type of players who can take this D to the next level.

So, in summary, it's on Stoops. ;)
 
People got excited after a few meaningless games against inferior competition. I expected the D to be maybe a little better this year but not a lot and that is what has happened. Grinch can't come in here and work miracles in one season with most of the same players. However, we do need to see continued improvement on the field and in recruiting. Only then can we make a fair judgment

I was guilty of that. I fall for it every year.
From here on out I will believe it when I see it.
 
I was guilty of that. I fall for it every year.
From here on out I will believe it when I see it.

Every January, I swear off...Every August, I think 'One More Time', and I buy in, again...In other areas of my life, I've learned my lesson on Expectations...I don't understand why I have such a tough time with my Boomer Sooners..:(
 
I continue to hear this argument. Like why do programs have to choose. What happened to setting equal goals for fielding the best offense and defense in the country?

Exactly. This is what I like about the NFL. Look at the Chiefs - defenses are adjusting. The Rams. The Ravens. They figure it out. A team with an offense that you think is unstoppable can get stonewalled on any given Sunday.
 
Every January, I swear off...Every August, I think 'One More Time', and I buy in, again...In other areas of my life, I've learned my lesson on Expectations...I don't understand why I have such a tough time with my Boomer Sooners..:(

Me too!
On the left is me at the beginning of the season. On the right is me by November.
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I have to say fault started with Stoops and has continued with Riley although I think Riley wants to improve our quality of players on both sides. The last 5 or 6 years of Stoops tenure he basically just threw in the towel on defense and was dead set on trying to out score teams rather that try to stop them. It’s almost like the defensive side was an afterthought. For all the good Stoops did, to me, his greatest failure was how lopsided he left the team and the way he pretty much abandoned the idea of having a great defense, considering thats where he made his name.

Problem I see is Riley is very adamant that Stoops is his mentor. That can be a good thing but I’m a little concerned that Stoops mentoring may include telling Riley it’s ok to lose a game or 2 a year, the seats will still stay full and everyone will still get paid. After all, that was Stoops MO for many years.
 
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I am encouraged by things both in terms of our team as well as the conference. We are seeing the influence of Big 12 offensive football permeate both big time college programs and the NFL. Watching the Ala. vs LSU game was like watching a Big 12 shootout. The Ravens, Rams, & Chiefs are all incorporating Big 12 schemes, not to mention the Cardinals. Interestingly, the Big 12 D's are now starting to catch up. There is some very good D being played in our conf. We are slowing our O down to help our D. Our D is better but it is still not where it needs to be. I think it will get there.
 
I am encouraged by things both in terms of our team as well as the conference. We are seeing the influence of Big 12 offensive football permeate both big time college programs and the NFL. Watching the Ala. vs LSU game was like watching a Big 12 shootout. The Ravens, Rams, & Chiefs are all incorporating Big 12 schemes, not to mention the Cardinals. Interestingly, the Big 12 D's are now starting to catch up. There is some very good D being played in our conf. We are slowing our O down to help our D. Our D is better but it is still not where it needs to be. I think it will get there.
I hope you can be patient on OU ever playing championship defense again. The players starting on defense now may not be around by the time Grinch can produce defensive success.
 
The general consensus in this thread is pretty common around here, but mostly it's wrong. But given the thread title, it's not unexpected.

Coaches don't play a snap. Are they important? Damn straight. But players make plays or don't. And who those players are makes a difference. On defense, we came into this season attempting to build depth, but with a definite shortage of it. And Grinch told you that before the season. OUr defense took a turn toward the negative, when JMT got hurt. It's not that he was a difference maker player. But he was really the one guy at that edge position, with the size to hold up against run based offenses relying on a more traditional running game. He was lost at the most inopportune time.

Bonitto has some nice qualities. But he's better against offenses like OUrs, than Iowa State or KState. The flip side, is that he was every bit as much responsible for stopping the Cyclones' two point conversion as the DB, who got almost all of it. But if Bonitto hadn't sloughed back off the guy he was covering, to the intended receiver, that two point pass would likely have been completed. That's where he has something to offer.

It's the players you have on the field for any particular game/play. We miss JMT. Last week, we missed Kenneth Mann. Before he got hurt, we were playing pretty solid defense. It was after he left, when ISU started scoring nearly every possession. But OUr guys rose up.

At Manhattan, the wheels didn't fall off, until Motley got himself kicked out of the game. I personally thought it was a little unfair. He had a blocker laying on top of him out of bounds, continuing to drive his chest into the ground. Parnell was just trying to get him off. He didn't kick him hard enough to move a balloon, much less break it.

This notion that Bob Stoops didn't give enough attention to the defense is absurb. Bob was actively part of the defensive game plan close to weekly. He let the offensive guys do what they do.

We have changed OUr defensive philosophy, and need some different kinds of players to make it work they way the new D staff wants it to. I personally don't like this new philosophy. But LR does, and I certainly defer to him and his judgement.

Complaining about coaches every time we don't blow somebody out by 30 plus might feel good. There is going to be a required growing process. It will not happen overnight. Bitchin' about coaches is pretty typical. But these men are quality leaders. When key players get hurt, it's going to have some negative impact on OUr team. We still are in great position to win the conference, and then see what happens.

If we finish the season 8-4, bitch away. But if we got to the CCG, especially if we win it, we will have accomplished something that few teams in the country have accomplished. And we will have done it, with the least talented recruiting home base, of any elite program in the country.
 
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Bob Stoops was a defensive wiz prior to his time at OU and he had some good defensive teams at OU for a while, but having brother Mike come in (2012) and losing Venables that same year has proved costly and has set OU in dire straits.
Coaches recruit, develop and motivate players and while they obviously don't "play a snap" they clearly do determine what happens on the field as much as the players.....and that includes in-game decisions as well as the quality of performance by a team. A fumble, interception, missed tackle can still occur due to human error, but good coaching can minimize mistakes. Coaching and players' performing go hand-in-hand in achieving or not achieving success.
I recall Coach Fairbanks saying after the 1969 59-21 loss to Kansas State that he thought the team played hard, but that he and his coaches did a poor job preparing for the game. So I regard the "team" concept as including players AND coaches.
What we're seeing in recent years at OU is a low level of overall defensive talent and some really flawed coaching....and now Grinch inherits a very "dirty diaper" as he tries to put OU on the map again defensively. He has a long and hard task ahead of him.
As for the Kansas State debacle, it was a total defensive meltdown, not just a case of one player on one play screwing up. Motley is clearly a poster child for the "low level of defensive talent". Unfortunately, he's surrounded by others.
 
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