OT Steve Kerr Golden St. head coach says it best about gun violence as a public health issue
- Thread starter bullmarket
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Well spoken.
While I favor our rights to own guns, for hunting and home defense only, I have a problem with the wording of the second amendment in that it says citizens have the right to bear arms in a well trained militia....and at the time there were no assault rifles, just single shot muskets.
This is now all about money and politics and not about common sense.
While I favor our rights to own guns, for hunting and home defense only, I have a problem with the wording of the second amendment in that it says citizens have the right to bear arms in a well trained militia....and at the time there were no assault rifles, just single shot muskets.
This is now all about money and politics and not about common sense.
Comparing it to the auto industry and reduction in car related deaths due to accidents makes zero sense. These mass shootings are not accidents. Speed limits and safety measures can't force people to drive safely. Even a person with no drivers license can find a way to get a vehicle and drive into a crowd of people if they want to badly enough. And whats up with cars being made that can push speeds close to 200mph when speed limits are rarely over 75mph??
Agree.
I heard the same argument, believe it or not, about the Vietnam casualties in relation to automobile traffic deaths.
Only similarity I saw was that both cost American lives needlessly.
God Bless the Founding Fathers, the 2nd Ammendment & the NRA!
All criminals are subject to voluntarily giving up their illegal weapons immediately...
This has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment.
Nobody is going to take away your gun or my gun or anybody's gun.
It has to do with the public having semi automatic assault rifles and automatic weapons (who even the police are against the public getting)
and those devices (bunstocks sp.) that the Las Vegas killer had to modify semi automatic weapons into automatic weapons to shoot 400 rounds in a minute. .
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Again...
God Bless the Founding Fathers, the2nd Ammendment & the NRA!
God Bless the Founding Fathers, the2nd Ammendment & the NRA!
David remember the Murrah Bldg. This is a sickness in people called SIN. Laws cannot stop this problem in hearts & minds. Guns, knives, cars or whatever are merely tools used for good & evil
This has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment. (read CTOkie's post in this thread).
Nobody is going to take away your gun or my gun or anybody's gun. It has to do with the public having semi automatic assault rifles and automatic weapons (who even the police are against the public getting)
and those devices (bunstocks sp.) that the Las Vegas killer had to modify semi automatic weapons into automatic weapons to shoot 400 rounds in a minute.
There are ways new gun laws can help stop these massacres of the innocent victims.
In the last two or three weeks America had incidents where 58 people were murdered & 26 people in a church (12 of which are dead children) were murdered.
Nobody is going to take away your gun or my gun or anybody's gun. It has to do with the public having semi automatic assault rifles and automatic weapons (who even the police are against the public getting)
and those devices (bunstocks sp.) that the Las Vegas killer had to modify semi automatic weapons into automatic weapons to shoot 400 rounds in a minute.
There are ways new gun laws can help stop these massacres of the innocent victims.
In the last two or three weeks America had incidents where 58 people were murdered & 26 people in a church (12 of which are dead children) were murdered.
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The NRA is very good at throwing money at US Senators and US Representatives so they won't vote for any new gun laws.
CTOkie said it best:
"While I favor our rights to own guns, for hunting and home defense only, I have a problem with the wording of the second amendment in that it says citizens have the right to bear arms in a well trained militia....and at the time there were no assault rifles, just single shot muskets.
This is now all about money and politics and not about common sense."
Then post them up and tell us about these new laws!!
You can sit there and keep spamming your post about how this isn't about the 2nd amendment. But that really only shows how naive you are about this.
WNAS said it best!!!!
Read my earlier post about having new laws regarding semi automatic assault rifles and automatic weapons for the public which even the police are against the public having these automatic weapons and also banning the device (bunstocks sp.)which transforms semi automatic weapons to automatic weapons which can shoot 400 rounds in a minute. The Las Vegas killer had these..
Billy go watch the video by Steve Kerr in the opening post in this thread.
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Okay, so banning bumpstocks will accomplish what exactly?? They were used by the Las Vegas shooter....how many times before or since have they been used?? So great, you are pushing for a new law that will accomplish absolutely nothing.
Also, automatic weapons are so heavily restricted, that go ahead and tell me when an actual legally owned, fully-automatic weapon was used in a mass shooting?? So great...another new idea for a law that accomplishes absolutely nothing....
Sounds like you really have this figured out Bull.......
I am the NRA. So are millions and millions of others. So was the guy that shot at and chased the church killer. He also shot at him and hit w/ a round from an AR-15. So what you have here is the same weapon, same gun, same model. But two different types of people that used it for two different reasons. It isn't the gun, it's the person. More on this later.
I believe CT is a hell of a lot sharper & smarter than this statement. You? Not so much. CT knows and fully understands that the 2nd amendment was NOT put into place to protect the citizens of the US to go hunting. It's place to protect us from tyrannical governments. Much like the current government we have now. The same Government that can't stop a Hilary Clinton from the rigging a presidential election. The same FBI that is moot about Vegas.
Safety? Heck bring it. Steve Kerr mentioned license, registrationetc. Well guess what, the frigging Air Force dropped the ball. The killer actually legally bought the gun when he should not have been able to! Because of this failure, you and others want to just stop selling guns because our Government can't 'manage' it. I know, "let's get a national data base of those that have guns!" Great. And let's have this same government keep this data base. You know, the same government that we have to a 2nd amendment to protect ourselves against.
OK, let's get back to the 'bad' , the 'evil'. First, guns & people have been around forever. Mass killings, not so much. Today, in the last 20 yrs or so, pharmaceuticals, meds, legal drugs, are friggin everywhere. If one can't afford, hell our govt will give it away. We don't lock up crazies any longer, we keep on the streets all cranked up on drugs. We see drug ads on TV in about 1 out of every 10 commercials. IMO, this is the common denominator. As a people, we're all legally drugged up. These chemicals are messing with brains, and emotions. We are even told... one of the side effects is 'suicide'. It's effing crazy! And when a nutcase goes on a shooting spree, the anti-gun crowd comes running. So piss & moan long enough about guns and hell will freeze over. Gun control aint happening, not in our lifetimes anyway.... at least not mine.
I have another theory on SOME of the mass killings... perhaps later, another post.
God Bless the 2nd amendment and the NRA that protects it.
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One thing people always overlook when talking about gun control or banning certain weapons or attachments, the bad guys can always get what you or I cannot. Ban the bumpstocks, I agree they should be but people that want to use them with bad intentions will always find a way to get them.
A few days ago a man that lives on one of the golf courses in my town had his house hit by a stray golf ball. He went outside with a shotgun threatening the group of golfers that did it. One problem, one of the golfers was the Chief of Police here. Needless to say he was arrested. We don't have a gun problem in America we have a crazy problem. Too many crazy people running around among us everyday that are just one bad day away from taking out themselves but not before they take a few with them.
It seems like more and more everyday people have no respect for anyone or anything anymore. I wish I knew why its gotten so bad in the past 20 yrs or so but I don't. Why are people so quick to be so hateful and uncaring these days?
Perhaps thats why a lot of these people are doing what they are doing, the state of the World today and the way people treat one another.
I will also say my Dad committed suicide in 1989 when I was 22. I hated guns for a long time after that but never hated the right for people to own them, I have about 7 guns now purchased in the last 7 yrs. After my dad used one to kill himself I was uneasy being around one but I know the gun is not the reason he died, it was a means to an end.
A few days ago a man that lives on one of the golf courses in my town had his house hit by a stray golf ball. He went outside with a shotgun threatening the group of golfers that did it. One problem, one of the golfers was the Chief of Police here. Needless to say he was arrested. We don't have a gun problem in America we have a crazy problem. Too many crazy people running around among us everyday that are just one bad day away from taking out themselves but not before they take a few with them.
It seems like more and more everyday people have no respect for anyone or anything anymore. I wish I knew why its gotten so bad in the past 20 yrs or so but I don't. Why are people so quick to be so hateful and uncaring these days?
Perhaps thats why a lot of these people are doing what they are doing, the state of the World today and the way people treat one another.
I will also say my Dad committed suicide in 1989 when I was 22. I hated guns for a long time after that but never hated the right for people to own them, I have about 7 guns now purchased in the last 7 yrs. After my dad used one to kill himself I was uneasy being around one but I know the gun is not the reason he died, it was a means to an end.
BTW... gun control is a theory that's based on the hope that an individual(s) that has committed armed robbery, rape, &/or murder will not break the law of obtaining a gun illegally.
The only way to stop mass killings is to prepare yourself to return fire.
Get a gun, get a carry license, and strap up.
The only way to stop mass killings is to prepare yourself to return fire.
Get a gun, get a carry license, and strap up.
Medic007
Sooner starter
At the time there also were no people flying planes into skyscrapers and driving rented trucks through crowds while shouting God is great.
Since there have been deaths associatd with religion inspired violence, are you good with restriction of religious liberty as well?
Sadly stopping the trucks driven by radicals whose sole purpose is to run over innocent people will be difficult to stop.
We live in a violent world but banning the purchase of automatic weapons might help a little
We live in a violent world but banning the purchase of automatic weapons might help a little
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Medic007
Sooner starter
That isn't what the Second Amendment says. The first part of the wording is a prefatory clause that announces a purpose for the individual right to bear arms, but it doesn't limit the operative clause of the individual right to bear arms to that exclusive purpose. The "militia" was abundantly described as "the whole of the people" during that time period.
In that time period people were expected to be able to protect themselves. 911 and patrol cars didn't exist. There's zero evidence from that time period that suggests the Founders viewed the Second Amendment as a collective right. Why would they insert prohibition of the federal government infringing on a collective right in a document that specifically addressed what the federal government was prohibited from in regards to individual rights?
The reason the Second Amendment was created was in response to the violations of the English Bill of Rights by the monarchy that led to the Revolutionary War. The Founders intended to keep the government under the control of the people, including insuring that the citizens couldn't be disarmed by the government and thus would always possess the ability to resist tyranny.
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Medic007
Sooner starter
The purchase of automatic weapons is already banned unless you can afford the tens of thousands of dollars it costs to buy one made prior to 1986.
Maybe we can stop the radicals that use trucks by severely limiting religious freedom. Like require a background check before you can attend a mosque. Make it illegal to discuss jihad. Limit the Quran by removing all of the parts that refer to jihad and only allow copies of the Quran that have been modified. Make them register their copies of the Quran. Require imams to obtain a federal license to preach. Require them to keep records of every word they speak and then audit them periodically to ensure their compliance with the law. Maybe we should just ban houses of worship altogether.
Of course it isn't just Muslims who have killed in the name of religion, so we'll have to impose restrictions on all religions to make sure we can stop the few radicals. Sound reasonable? No church for David because of the acts of a few twisted religious people?
Guns are part of our heritage. Guns have HAD to be a part of our heritage. Responsible gun ownership should always be with us.
I have a friend whose wife and kids were saved from a home invasion by his wife while he was out of town by simply operating a bolt action rifle loud enough to heard by the intruder....one of the many guns he had in his collection. She told me that she intended to kill to defend her kids.
In the cases like Sutherland Springs, Newton Ct, Cheshire Ct., Columbine High School, Las Vegas and too many others, I wish someone had been able to return fire. This is because, given a choice, I personally would rather be a active combatant than a helpless casualty.
Anyway, I seem to always get caught in the middle on certain issues. Here I am again.
What I know is that too many bad guys are able to get guns. That's not perception. That's fact.
Screening efforts are obviously not working. While gun violence will never go away, I can't believe measures to reduce it can't be made fairly and logically.
Good folks do not want to feel that they are one step removed from those who kill cops and children.
But as long as we become increasingly more divided from each other on every front by the media and politicians and ourselves, more insanity will surface and more tragic events will occur. To me, that is the seed of all of this.
I have a friend whose wife and kids were saved from a home invasion by his wife while he was out of town by simply operating a bolt action rifle loud enough to heard by the intruder....one of the many guns he had in his collection. She told me that she intended to kill to defend her kids.
In the cases like Sutherland Springs, Newton Ct, Cheshire Ct., Columbine High School, Las Vegas and too many others, I wish someone had been able to return fire. This is because, given a choice, I personally would rather be a active combatant than a helpless casualty.
Anyway, I seem to always get caught in the middle on certain issues. Here I am again.
What I know is that too many bad guys are able to get guns. That's not perception. That's fact.
Screening efforts are obviously not working. While gun violence will never go away, I can't believe measures to reduce it can't be made fairly and logically.
Good folks do not want to feel that they are one step removed from those who kill cops and children.
But as long as we become increasingly more divided from each other on every front by the media and politicians and ourselves, more insanity will surface and more tragic events will occur. To me, that is the seed of all of this.
And what militia are you in .We need the militia to in case of indian attack or to fight those nasty Brits
Mock as you wish. It’s foolishness.
Hopefully you’ll never have to witness the carnage that will occur when we have to fight to survive.
Militias are live & well
Hopefully you’ll never have to witness the carnage that will occur when we have to fight to survive.
Militias are live & well
CT
There was return fire
https://www.nratv.com/home/video/st...-and-texas-hero-exclusive-hour-long-interview
There was return fire
https://www.nratv.com/home/video/st...-and-texas-hero-exclusive-hour-long-interview
I know that. Too late or not enough to save more lives.
Wow. I read the linked article about Steve Kerr's childhood and his father being assassinated by terrorists. Amazing.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/sports/basketball/steve-kerr-golden-state-warriors.html
This part showing one of the reasons Gregg Popovich is so great:
“I didn’t need revenge, I didn’t need closure,” Steve Kerr said. “So I was indifferent to the lawsuit. But then I recognized that it was important to a couple of members of my family, my sister and my younger brother, in particular.”
When it came time to testify in United States District Court in Washington in December 2002, Kerr was with the Spurs, in the last of his 15 seasons in the N.B.A. He did not want to miss games.
“There’s nobody better than Pop to talk about something like this,” Kerr said. “I told him, ‘I don’t really want people knowing what it is.’ I didn’t want the attention. But I also don’t want people thinking I’m injured. So Pop said: ‘You missed two games for personal reasons. Big deal. Your reputation precedes you. Nobody is going to question what’s going on with you.’ And he was right. I told my teammates and nothing ever really came of it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/sports/basketball/steve-kerr-golden-state-warriors.html
This part showing one of the reasons Gregg Popovich is so great:
“I didn’t need revenge, I didn’t need closure,” Steve Kerr said. “So I was indifferent to the lawsuit. But then I recognized that it was important to a couple of members of my family, my sister and my younger brother, in particular.”
When it came time to testify in United States District Court in Washington in December 2002, Kerr was with the Spurs, in the last of his 15 seasons in the N.B.A. He did not want to miss games.
“There’s nobody better than Pop to talk about something like this,” Kerr said. “I told him, ‘I don’t really want people knowing what it is.’ I didn’t want the attention. But I also don’t want people thinking I’m injured. So Pop said: ‘You missed two games for personal reasons. Big deal. Your reputation precedes you. Nobody is going to question what’s going on with you.’ And he was right. I told my teammates and nothing ever really came of it.”
Disagree.surr there were some terrible numbers of dead but there were still a lot of people that lived because of his training,instincts & actions.
It’s 2017. Cops are being ambushed & murdered as well. If you’re waiting on a cop to protect you while in the middle of gunfire, your survival rate is very low.
Not quite true. Bollards are pretty damn cheap to install, and they don't obstruct foot traffic or bikes. They're pretty darn unobtrusive in fact. It's only a matter of time before every popular pedestrian area has these securing the area.
I'm pretty sure they can also make holes for temporary placement of these as well to account for roads that are temporarily used for festivals, etc.
Everyone knows that it's our Thoughts and Prayers that will prevent gun violence.
https://www.thoughtsandprayersthegame.com/
“I hope we can do more than just offer victims our thoughts and prayers,” Kerr said after the shooting in Las Vegas. “We’ve been offering victims thoughts and prayers for three decades. We need to offer them something else.”
https://www.thoughtsandprayersthegame.com/
“I hope we can do more than just offer victims our thoughts and prayers,” Kerr said after the shooting in Las Vegas. “We’ve been offering victims thoughts and prayers for three decades. We need to offer them something else.”
I agree. Everyone should be offered FREE hand gun training. It should be mandatory & a pre-requisite to graduate HS. You know...a public safety thing because things are so bad.
Therein lies the problem with most Utopian theories though. It requires EVERYONE to do their part. When it's 5 people, sure. When it's 10 people, probably. When it's 20 people, maybe. When it's 100 people, no way. When it's 300 million people?
I personally don't want any more gun restrictions. I'd rather the barrier to entry be much higher though.
Licenses should cost much more and require much more investigation (paid for by the owner). It's logistically possible. I recently went through my secret clearance approval process, and the amount of information collected and due diligence they performed was pretty amazing, especially considering over 5 million Americans have secret clearances. Background checks, personal interview, family interviews, and even interviewed past neighbors that were not friends.
I've read that like 3% of Americans own 1/2 of the guns. That's somewhere around 9 million Americans. It's more, but it's not an order of magnitude or anything.
I personally don't want any more gun restrictions. I'd rather the barrier to entry be much higher though.
Licenses should cost much more and require much more investigation (paid for by the owner). It's logistically possible. I recently went through my secret clearance approval process, and the amount of information collected and due diligence they performed was pretty amazing, especially considering over 5 million Americans have secret clearances. Background checks, personal interview, family interviews, and even interviewed past neighbors that were not friends.
I've read that like 3% of Americans own 1/2 of the guns. That's somewhere around 9 million Americans. It's more, but it's not an order of magnitude or anything.
Ok here is the gun regulation we need. No high capacity military grade weaponary for civilians, and much more stringent background checks and mental health evaluations for those who purchase guns. We already have large scale population models to use as evidence for the efficacy of those standards. But how do you reason with the idiot mentality that says "The only way you will get my gun is to pry it away from my dead body. Organizations like the NRA want people to believe that if guns like assault rifles are banned then pretty soon the government will come in and take away all your weapons. We most certainly should have the right to bear arms, but not any arms. Is anyone out there really concerned that our government is going to become "tyrannical" and that we as citizens would ourselves need military type weapons to defend ourselves. Guess what! The government would come in with tanks, weaponized drones, mussels
high tech artillery, armed aircraft, and trained soldiers. Cletus, Jeb, and Billy Bob down at the feed store militia might as well have flyswatters as as assault rifles. There are other developed nations that don't allow civilians to stockpile such weapons, and as a result, don't have our rate of gun violence. Everyone knows the second amendment was written with muskets in mind. Nobody "needs" an AR-15 for home protection or hunting, and the risk of allowing anybody with a pulse to own one far outweigh the benefits. Sure the bad guys will probably find ways to get some of the banned weapons. But God Dang it make it as hard as possible. This is just my opinion and I certainly respect any opinions to the contrary.
Our government is tyrannical in many ways and our so-called "leaders" don't give a schit about us....only about getting elected.
And be careful, mcbrider, those who do not agree with you have God on their side.
I have no problem with those that feel the need to own weapons. I don’t have a weapon and don’t want one. Maybe I will decide that I need one and if I do, I want to have the right to buy one so I suppose I’m for the 2nd Amendment. What I am against are these military type weapons that people can buy with all these crazy number of rounds that can be shot. No one needs to have that kind of weapon. But I can’t change anything so I don’t worry about it.
I agree with assault weapons are not really the greatest thing that are allowed.However I have to say the old cliche of its not the weapon its the nut behind it.That being said what most people that have never been around guns don't understand is that you can modify a simple semi-auto deer rifle into a very deadly assault weapon.The mental health issue in this country is the most alarming thing to me.We have an unprecedented amount of hate in this country which imho is the biggest problem we face as a nation.
Medic007
Sooner starter
Lots of hysterics! Just needs dragons!
Civilians can't own military grade weapons unless you've got tens of thousands of dollars and the background to pass a class 3 backgound check to buy weapons made prior to 1986. I'll bet your house that no mass shooter has used a pre 1986 weapon legally purchased to commit a crime. If you believe the military is using civilian Bushmaster AR15s, I've got beachfront property in Nebraska to sell you. No, really. It's beachfront.
Regarding a tyrannical government, I'd put money on 100 million vs 2 million, making a leap assumption that 2 million service members would turn their weapons on our civilian populace. That's not even a logical argument. The US military has had its ass kicked by primitive guerilla warfare for years. A few tens of millions of armed American citizens would make our military look silly. Just as our Founders intended.
Next?
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Yes.
I trust this government about as far as Benghazi, Antifa, and Clinton's DNC. And yes this Jeb, along w/ cousin Cletus, and brother Billy Bob will defend ourselves this best we can w/ them fly swatters and most likely will do the same for you and your loved ones. And I'm thinking that close to 75- 80% of the military w/ be fighting right next to me, brother and cousin. Naivety is an easy man's game.
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