Nothing to lose & all to gain

[WhyNotaSooner]

We’re re supposed to lose. Bama is supposed to win. But they are beatable. And I think they are taking us lightly. Listen to the sound bites. I think if we give them a game, they’ll tighten up.

If we lose...so what? We move on, hire the DC, and get better. The pundits were right. If we win, we still move on, hire a DC and get better. And the pundits eat their words.

OU has nothing to lose.

 

[CTOkie]

To a degree, that's very true......but I believe another blowout loss by OU is unacceptable.
If any team gets into a championship game, it's important to, at the very least, not get embarrassed and to play a tough, hard fought contest.
Another lopsided defeat could influence OU's selection in future final four playoffs as well. That's not necessarily what I believe, but it could carry some weight with the boys at ESPN.

 

[thatdude35]

I don’t think they’re taking us lightly unless they’re lying. Especially about our defense. They’re saying they don’t our defense is as bad as ppl are putting it... all of the Bama players interviewed are saying it

 

[BillyRay]

I think OU has a ton to lose. This will be OU's 3rd trip to the playoffs in the last 4 years. OU needs to at least win a game in the playoffs this year. If OU loses again, then no doubt OU's reputation nationally will take a hit. Hate to say it, but OU would start to look like the Buffalo Bills of college football.
2003 lost national title game.
2004 lost national title game.
2008 lost national title game.
2015 one and done in the playoff.
2017 one and done in the playoff.
2018...OU really needs a win to change this pattern.

 

[Rush2112Sooner]

To a degree, that's very true......but I believe another blowout loss by OU is unacceptable.
If any team gets into a championship game, it's important to, at the very least, not get embarrassed and to play a tough, hard fought contest.
Another lopsided defeat could influence OU's selection in future final four playoffs as well. That's not necessarily what I believe, but it could carry some weight with the boys at ESPN.

Agree 100%. While a loss in context of this year only, shouldn’t be held against us since it’s us and our lowly defense vs. all-time greatest team ever, it will mean OU (and Big XII) are 0-3 in the playoff era. It would be held against us in future Committee deliberations (possibly) and Sports media opinions (especially pro-SEC should get 2 teams bobble-heads).

 

[CTOkie]

I believe the Alabama fan base, for the most part, is taking this game as a warmup for its anticipated rematch with Clemson.
I do not believe the coaches and players of Alabama see it this way.
If it comes down one again to Clemson vs Alabama, I may just watch "Love It or List It" reruns and wait for spring football and the start of baseball season.

 

[CTOkie]

Agree 100%. While a loss in context of this year only, shouldn’t be held against us since it’s us and our lowly defense vs. all-time greatest team ever, it will mean OU (and Big XII) are 0-3 in the playoff era. It would be held against us in future Committee deliberations (possibly) and Sports media opinions (especially pro-SEC should get 2 teams bobble-heads).

I've heard that ESPN gives good bobble-head to SEC teams.....and buys them breakfast in the morning.

 

[BillyRay]

I believe the Alabama fan base, for the most part, is taking this game as a warmup for its anticipated rematch with Clemson.
I do not believe the coaches and players of Alabama see it this way.

^This!!!

 

[ZimWillett]

To a degree, that's very true......but I believe another blowout loss by OU is unacceptable.
If any team gets into a championship game, it's important to, at the very least, not get embarrassed and to play a tough, hard fought contest.
Another lopsided defeat could influence OU's selection in future final four playoffs as well. That's not necessarily what I believe, but it could carry some weight with the boys at ESPN.

I agree that a blowout loss would be painful and difficult to stomach, but OU fans have been fretting about this "the media will turn against OU and hurt future selection prospects" narrative for 15 years (since the USC debacle).

But the results speak for themselves. Has OU ever had a qualifying resume and gotten left out of either the BCS title or the CFP? In the debate between OU, Georgia, and Ohio State, I literally did not hear a single respectable media member say anything like "well, OU lost to Clemson back in 2015 and got beat real bad by USC a decade and a half ago, so that's why I think Ohio State should get in." More importantly, while the CFP has its flaws, I have not seen any evidence that media narrative impacts their process all that much. If it did, Kirk Herbstreit's full court press on behalf of Georgia probably would have worked this season.

Bottom line: in any given year, if OU goes undefeated, they're in. If OU finishes as a 1 loss Big 12 Champ, they're probably in. Anything short of that and you just need chaos. It's that simple, and no media narrative or previous season's loss is really likely to impact that scenario.

 

[CTOkie]

Zim, if OU’s postseason and especially its playoff failures continue, OU will be stuck with a very bad reputation.
Case in point: Alabama is a heavy favorite in this game. I believe the disrespect is as much about history as it is OU’s porous defense.

 

[Deweygolfer]

Zim, if OU’s postseason and especially its playoff failures continue, OU will be stuck with a very bad reputation.
Case in point: Alabama is a heavy favorite in this game. I believe the disrespect is as much about history as it is OU’s porous defense.

Bama was also a heavy favorite against UGA in the SEC Championship Game (same point spread I believe). It has nothing to do with History, it has to do with how highly regarded Bama is this year.

 

[ZimWillett]

Zim, if OU’s postseason and especially its playoff failures continue, OU will be stuck with a very bad reputation.
Case in point: Alabama is a heavy favorite in this game. I believe the disrespect is as much about history as it is OU’s porous defense.

Point spread is totally unrelated to whether or not OU's future prospects for CFP selection will be impacted by past results (which was the premise of your original post). Again, if OU goes undefeated in any season, they're in. Period. If they finish with one loss and a conference title, they're in probably 80% of the time, or more. Anything short of that, they're likely out unless they get a lot of help, but if they don't get in, it wouldn't be because they lost to Clemson 5 years ago. It will be because their resume was not good enough.

You're free to fret about reputation, or media a narrative, or point spreads, or whatever, but it's a total waste of time. Those are the parameters. If OU has a 0 or 1 loss conference title resume, they're in regardless of how much you fret.

 

[BillyRay]

Bottom line: in any given year, if OU goes undefeated, they're in. If OU finishes as a 1 loss Big 12 Champ, they're probably in. Anything short of that and you just need chaos. It's that simple, and no media narrative or previous season's loss is really likely to impact that scenario.

It's certainly worked in the opposite way for Alabama. Think of last year. Bama drops it's last game of the regular season, doesn't go to their conference championship game so they weren't even the SEC champion, yet they still got into the playoffs. Same as this year, there was nearly a consensus that said even if Bama lost against Georgia, they would still get in the playoffs.

That's due to Bama's and Saban's reputation. So you can't say for certain that it can't go the other way for another team.

 

[CTOkie]

Point spread is totally unrelated to whether or not OU's future prospects for CFP selection will be impacted by past results (which was the premise of your original post). Again, if OU goes undefeated in any season, they're in. Period. If they finish with one loss and a conference title, they're in probably 80% of the time, or more. Anything short of that, they're likely out unless they get a lot of help, but if they don't get in, it wouldn't be because they lost to Clemson 5 years ago. It will be because their resume was not good enough.

You're free to fret about reputation, or media a narrative, or point spreads, or whatever, but it's a total waste of time. Those are the parameters. If OU has a 0 or 1 loss conference title resume, they're in regardless of how much you fret.

No one is "fretting"....and you're blaming me for giving OU a bad reputation when I'm saying that losing playoff games and/or national championship games 6 times since 2003 and 3 of the past 4 years is not a good trend. There is more to getting into the final four than JUST getting in. At some point a team has to start making its presence felt by winning.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

I don’t think they’re taking us lightly unless they’re lying. Especially about our defense. They’re saying they don’t our defense is as bad as ppl are putting it... all of the Bama players interviewed are saying it

All of the Bama players are schooled. It’s player speak & Coach speak.
Tua -“I’m 85%”
Saban- “We’re playing the best player in college”

They are setting themselves up for fallback excuses. Nothing more . Nothing less.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

I think OU has a ton to lose. This will be OU's 3rd trip to the playoffs in the last 4 years. OU needs to at least win a game in the playoffs this year. If OU loses again, then no doubt OU's reputation nationally will take a hit. Hate to say it, but OU would start to look like the Buffalo Bills of college football.
2003 lost national title game.
2004 lost national title game.
2008 lost national title game.
2015 one and done in the playoff.
2017 one and done in the playoff.
2018...OU really needs a win to change this pattern.

I see where you’re going but I can’t follow this thought line.
First, most CFB fans have no clue about the Buffalo Bills playoff ills.
Second, Bob Stoops is gone. This is a new OU.
Third, OU has no DC
Fourth, OU has produced back to back Heismans.
Lastly, what I think some of our fans are forgetting is that this OU is the best offense in CFB history. It has outscored every team it has faced this year.

 

[ZimWillett]

It's certainly worked in the opposite way for Alabama. Think of last year. Bama drops it's last game of the regular season, doesn't go to their conference championship game so they weren't even the SEC champion, yet they still got into the playoffs. Same as this year, there was nearly a consensus that said even if Bama lost against Georgia, they would still get in the playoffs.

That's due to Bama's and Saban's reputation. So you can't say for certain that it can't go the other way for another team.

Totally fair point. I still maintain that if OU goes undefeated, they're in, no matter what. One loss an a conference title, they're in the vast majority of the time. In other words, take care of business, and all the stuff about narrative and past results is kind of irrelevant. It's that simple.

All that said, no one is more sick of losing these damn things than I am. This is a huge opportunity for OU to turn that around.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

I agree that a blowout loss would be painful and difficult to stomach, but OU fans have been fretting about this "the media will turn against OU and hurt future selection prospects" narrative for 15 years (since the USC debacle).

But the results speak for themselves. Has OU ever had a qualifying resume and gotten left out of either the BCS title or the CFP? In the debate between OU, Georgia, and Ohio State, I literally did not hear a single respectable media member say anything like "well, OU lost to Clemson back in 2015 and got beat real bad by USC a decade and a half ago, so that's why I think Ohio State should get in." More importantly, while the CFP has its flaws, I have not seen any evidence that media narrative impacts their process all that much. If it did, Kirk Herbstreit's full court press on behalf of Georgia probably would have worked this season.

Bottom line: in any given year, if OU goes undefeated, they're in. If OU finishes as a 1 loss Big 12 Champ, they're probably in. Anything short of that and you just need chaos. It's that simple, and no media narrative or previous season's loss is really likely to impact that scenario.

This made over. He’s right you know. An undefeated OU will ALWAYS be granted the playoffs. And as of yet, unless the loss is a blowout, a1loss OU gets love as well. The Oklahoma brand is very well respected, even w/ESPN.
If anything, the CFB fans across America are growing tired of the SEC banter and Bama.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Zim, if OU’s postseason and especially its playoff failures continue, OU will be stuck with a very bad reputation.
Case in point: Alabama is a heavy favorite in this game. I believe the disrespect is as much about history as it is OU’s porous defense.

Iim a believer in that if the reputation is stated, then it’s most likely deserved. We do have a suck ass defense. The Big12 is indeed an all out wide open offense. These things are true. But even w these things, the committee thought we were better than others. Warts & all. And until LR corrects the defensive woes... OU will always be an offensive team... so is Texas Tech.

 

[BillyRay]

I see where you’re going but I can’t follow this thought line.
First, most CFB fans have no clue about the Buffalo Bills playoff ills.
Second, Bob Stoops is gone. This is a new OU.
Third, OU has no DC
Fourth, OU has produced back to back Heismans.
Lastly, what I think some of our fans are forgetting is that this OU is the best offense in CFB history. It has outscored every team it has faced this year.

Your points are valid for sure. Sure it's a new OU with Bob gone, but it needs to get different results on the field in big time post season games to truly look like a different team. There was alot of debate as to whether OU even deserved to be in the playoff with such a bad defense. If OU gets blown out tomorrow, then that's a reputation that has to change going forward or OU will always take a knock nationally for having no defense.

 

[CTOkie]

Saban is simply respecting his team's opponent, not offering an excuse for losing. I don't believe excuses are part of Saban's "DNA". His track record does not reflect this.
How many national championships has OU won with a Heisman winner on the roster since Vessels' time ?
And to keep reading that OU must score each time it has the ball in order to win is unsettling......especially since it is true. So far it has worked in all but one game, but Alabama is a whole new challenge like nothing OU has faced.

 

[BillyRay]

Totally fair point. I still maintain that if OU goes undefeated, they're in, no matter what. One loss an a conference title, they're in the vast majority of the time. In other words, take care of business, and all the stuff about narrative and past results is kind of irrelevant. It's that simple.

All that said, no one is more sick of losing these damn things than I am. This is a huge opportunity for OU to turn that around.

Well it's easy to maintain that if OU goes undefeated they are in. I mean that's not really going out on a limb to say something like that. Lol

I'm just thinking of years when OU has a loss. What if all power 5 conference champs have a lone loss, and also Bama has a lone loss and didn't win their conference? That would be a HUGE hill for any team to climb to get into the playoffs. I would rather not risk OU having that reputation for always laying an egg in the playoffs that may affect whether they get in or not when being judged against other teams.

But you're right that may not ever be anything that the committee considers. But I also look at Bama year after year, and they absolutely get boosted by their success over the past decade or so. I don't think anyone can deny that Bama gets a nod over other teams simply due to their current reputation.

 

[ZimWillett]

Well it's easy to maintain that if OU goes undefeated they are in. I mean that's not really going out on a limb to say something like that. Lol

I'm just thinking of years when OU has a loss. What if all power 5 conference champs have a lone loss, and also Bama has a lone loss and didn't win their conference? That would be a HUGE hill for any team to climb to get into the playoffs. I would rather not risk OU having that reputation for always laying an egg in the playoffs that may affect whether they get in or not when being judged against other teams.

But you're right that may not ever be anything that the committee considers. But I also look at Bama year after year, and they absolutely get boosted by their success over the past decade or so. I don't think anyone can deny that Bama gets a nod over other teams simply due to their current reputation.

Yeah. If OU has a loss, then they throw their lot in with everyone else, but at least so far, that's worked out pretty well, and I don't see that changing. OU got the 4th spot over Ohio State, who won it in 2014. If that's not evidence that "reputation" plays little, if any, impact on the selection process, I don't know what else will convince you.

The scenario you've outlined is what it is. Of course there is a chance that OU could get left out one of these years. But if they do, it will have more to do with something that happened that particular season (e.g. weak strength of schedule, a "bad" loss, another team with better wins, etc.) than anything that happened in previous seasons.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Your points are valid for sure. Sure it's a new OU with Bob gone, but it needs to get different results on the field in big time post season games to truly look like a different team. There was alot of debate as to whether OU even deserved to be in the playoff with such a bad defense. If OU gets blown out tomorrow, then that's a reputation that has to change going forward or OU will always take a knock nationally for having no defense.

I agree wholeheartedly. If you remember or care to look back, I was one of the first posters that said they were not deserving of the playoffs. Then Stoops was fired. Then the dominos fell that allowed OU to move forward to the playoffs. It’s for these reasons I believe they have nothing to lose and all to gain. To me, it’s a bonus that they even have the chance to knock off the great SEC giants called Alabama.

I hope they win but I’m not concerned of what others view of the Sooners. I’m pretty confident that LR is moving the program forward to a level that Bob Stoops couldn’t.

 

[JConXtsy]

It's the poor reputation of the Big XII which is at hand. OU finished with a single loss, and that was a nail biter, not an ass whooping. We were arguably a single play away from a perfect season which would have made our playoff entry unarguable. A single play took us from automatic entries to hanging by a thread, and that's because of our entire conference being questioned.

I was watching the Lakers vs Golden State a couple of days ago and listened to Jeff Van Gundy totally trash OU's presence in the playoffs. His final exclamation was, "a Big XII team??!!!! COME ON!!!!"

 

[runningback43]

I for one am ready for this game to kick off. Can't wait to hear what the ESPN talking heads and other talking heads have to say after we beat them tomorrow night. Boomer Sooner!

 

[BillyRay]

OU finished with a single loss, and that was a nail biter, not an ass whooping.

Thankfully the committee prolly just looked at the final score. Cuz I was at that game and it was a total ass beating Texass put on OU. The final score is deceiving since Texass went conservative towards the end of the 3rd qtr and let OU get back into the game. If Texass had kept their foot on the gas, then they would have put up 60+.

 

[OUSOONER67]

If its true what the OU Players and Coaches say "You come to OU to win Championships" then they need to put up or shut up.
Nothing short of winning it all this year will do it for me. (In the past people on here have been called a Spoiled Fan for saying things like that)
As for all the talk about the Defense and how bad it is I doubt it has pissed the guys off too much, they have been hearing it for a while now and its not just a knock on OU's defense but on the Conference as a whole, we are called a Garbage Conference, Arena Ball and the No Defense League. Until a team from the Big 12 can Win a National Title expect it to continue.
On a side note, at least Bob is no longer the HC, if he were all we would hear from the talking heads would be about what he said about the SEC and I am sure it has come up but I don't watch them to know if it has or not or it will be brought up during the game for sure.

 

[owenfieldreams]

There's a reason why we're referred to as "Chokelahoma."

 

[ZimWillett]

It's the poor reputation of the Big XII which is at hand. OU finished with a single loss, and that was a nail biter, not an ass whooping. We were arguably a single play away from a perfect season which would have made our playoff entry unarguable. A single play took us from automatic entries to hanging by a thread, and that's because of our entire conference being questioned.

I was watching the Lakers vs Golden State a couple of days ago and listened to Jeff Van Gundy totally trash OU's presence in the playoffs. His final exclamation was, "a Big XII team??!!!! COME ON!!!!"

It wasn't the single play or the Big 12's reputation that has OU hanging on by a thread. It's the anomaly of 3 P5 teams finishing undefeated. In this era of parity and 13 game seasons, that really is the exception, not the rule. Last year, OU lost at home to Iowa State and wound up #2 going into the CFP. How does that fit into the "reputation" narrative?

 

[kcstorm06]

PAC 12 has the wobbly perception...much worse off than Big 12. They have faded into irrelevance as of late. Oregon is trying to regain some glory while Washington and Stanford have taken a step downwards. I think most blabber mouths know very little about how dynamic the Big 12 is and has been. I hope that with a new DC we can put a dirty sock in those same mouths over the course of the next 5 years. CFB is very cyclical and always will be. It takes a lot of talent to stay top 5 on a consistent basis.

 

[veritas59]

Bama was also a heavy favorite against UGA in the SEC Championship Game (same point spread I believe). It has nothing to do with History, it has to do with how highly regarded Bama is this year.

Exactly. They've been a heavy favorite in every game they've played this year. More than a few have called them the best college team ever during the course of the year.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

There's a reason why we're referred to as "Chokelahoma."

Because it rhymes and they hate us because they ain’t us.

Do you believe the Sooners are chokers?

 

[OUnabomber]

I think OU has a ton to lose. This will be OU's 3rd trip to the playoffs in the last 4 years. OU needs to at least win a game in the playoffs this year. If OU loses again, then no doubt OU's reputation nationally will take a hit. Hate to say it, but OU would start to look like the Buffalo Bills of college football.
2003 lost national title game.
2004 lost national title game.
2008 lost national title game.
2015 one and done in the playoff.
2017 one and done in the playoff.
2018...OU really needs a win to change this pattern.

I agree. Heck its not like we are Texas Tech or somebody of that nature and just happy to be there. If we keep losing these playoff games then eventually we are not going to continue to get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[BillyRay]

It wasn't the single play or the Big 12's reputation that has OU hanging on by a thread. It's the anomaly of 3 P5 teams finishing undefeated. In this era of parity and 13 game seasons, that really is the exception, not the rule. Last year, OU lost at home to Iowa State and wound up #2 going into the CFP. How does that fit into the "reputation" narrative?

OU may have ended up #2 last year, but the bigger story of "reputation narrative" in last years playoff was the SEC getting 2 teams in. OU lost earlier in the year than both Georgia and Bama. That dynamic does come into play as well.

 

[YourCrimsonNightmare]

I agree that a blowout loss would be painful and difficult to stomach, but OU fans have been fretting about this "the media will turn against OU and hurt future selection prospects" narrative for 15 years (since the USC debacle).

But the results speak for themselves. Has OU ever had a qualifying resume and gotten left out of either the BCS title or the CFP? In the debate between OU, Georgia, and Ohio State, I literally did not hear a single respectable media member say anything like "well, OU lost to Clemson back in 2015 and got beat real bad by USC a decade and a half ago, so that's why I think Ohio State should get in." More importantly, while the CFP has its flaws, I have not seen any evidence that media narrative impacts their process all that much. If it did, Kirk Herbstreit's full court press on behalf of Georgia probably would have worked this season.

Bottom line: in any given year, if OU goes undefeated, they're in. If OU finishes as a 1 loss Big 12 Champ, they're probably in. Anything short of that and you just need chaos. It's that simple, and no media narrative or previous season's loss is really likely to impact that scenario.

Nice analysis. Lets face it, OU is one of a handful of teams whose credibility isn't really questioned. OU-UT conference championship was the most-watched ever on ESPN. Says it all.

All I'm asking for is (1) Sooners NOT having their longest stretch of seasons without an NC since WWII, and (2) the death of a paradigm whose usefulness has expired.

NO MORE hearing that offense sells tickets and defense wins championships. The truth is that the teams whose overall play in all facets of the game is superior, are the teams that usually come home with the trophy.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

I agree. Heck its not like we are Texas Tech or somebody of that nature and just happy to be there. If we keep losing these playoff games then eventually we are not going to continue to get the benefit of the doubt.

If we keep winning a Conference titles, we’ll be fine.

 

[thatdude35]

All of the Bama players are schooled. It’s player speak & Coach speak.
Tua -“I’m 85%”
Saban- “We’re playing the best player in college”

They are setting themselves up for fallback excuses. Nothing more . Nothing less.

I think it’s more so sportsmanship then anything. I believe Tua though he seems like a genuine person

 

[Rush2112Sooner]

If we keep winning a Conference titles, we’ll be fine.

Yep. Us and Clemson have the same equity at this point when it comes to making the playoffs (we have more conference titles and longer conference dominance but they have playoff wins and a recent natty). tOSU isn’t far behind. Pac 12 isn’t close to any of the other P5.

 

[BillyRay]

Yep. Us and Clemson have the same equity at this point when it comes to making the playoffs (we have more conference titles and longer conference dominance but they have playoff wins and a recent natty). tOSU isn’t far behind. Pac 12 isn’t close to any of the other P5.

Why wouldn't the PAC-12 be close to the other conferences? If they win their conference shouldn't they be on par with any other P5 conference?