Is the jury still out on Sam Bradford?

[tok1983]

Or do we finally have to come to the realization that he's just not a very good professional quarterback? I've heard every excuse in the book to explain away Sam's troubles and thought some were valid when he was with the Rams but this Eagles team has weapons and Sam still doesn't look very good.

 

[soonerfastnloud]

Or do we finally have to come to the realization that he's just not a very good professional quarterback? I've heard every excuse in the book to explain away Sam's troubles and thought some were valid when he was with the Rams but this Eagles team has weapons and Sam still doesn't look very good.

Poor guy looks worse than ever, with his former roommate Murray not looking good either'

 

[WP76]

The undeniable truth is that, unless something changes very quickly, Sam's legacy will be that of an NFL bust. Today was a pitiful display of inaccuracy and lack of field vision. His OL sucks but he's just been disappointing.

 

[Soonersincefitty]

Or do we finally have to come to the realization that he's just not a very good professional quarterback? I've heard every excuse in the book to explain away Sam's troubles and thought some were valid when he was with the Rams but this Eagles team has weapons and Sam still doesn't look very good.

I'd agree with you if I were guaranteed this topic would never be broached again. That would be a fair trade.
Since that's impossible, no deal.

 

[LongTimeSooner]

In the Monday night game he played last week against Atlanta, he looked great. So did DeMarco. Sproles apparently is ageless.

 

[tok1983]

I'd agree with you if I were guaranteed this topic would never be broached again. That would be a fair trade.
Since that's impossible, no deal.

Since I was asking a question and didn't give my opinion one way or the other I'm not quite sure what you'd be agreeing with but it's definitely a pertinent topic on a Sooner board. Sorry if this question has been asked before but I haven't seen it.

 

[BillyRay]

I'm gonna hold out hope that Bradford can turn it around this season. He has missed a crapload of playing time the last 2 years due to injury. Maybe it will take him longer than we would like to get back in the groove. Hard to bounce back after hardly seeing the field at all for the better part of 2 years.

 

[Soonersincefitty]

Since I was asking a question and didn't give my opinion one way or the other I'm not quite sure what you'd be agreeing with but it's definitely a pertinent topic on a Sooner board. Sorry if this question has been asked before but I haven't seen it.

It's come up several times ad nauseam.
My bad if I seemed irritated about it.

A quarterback, especially a QB is sometimes only as good as his supporting resources. Sam could walk away from the league with his head held high.

To me his 'money' days were at OU.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

I agree that a QB & RB is only as good as their O=Line, but today was an absolutely pathetic display of offense as I've seen in the NFL by top name QB & RB.... ever. It was bad. Very bad.

 

[veritas59]

I'll cut DeMarco a little slack, as he was getting hit almost at the same time he was receiving the hand-offs... those stretch plays are slow to develop and you can't run them when the defensive lineman is coming through untouched. Sam was just awful; I've never seen him as inaccurate as he was today. In two games, I don't remember him going over the top one time, but maybe I've missed something. I'm sure that's Chip Kelly's play calling. Maybe they'll gel, or maybe he's just a bad fit for that offense Or maybe the league has caught up to the CK system.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

I'm not doubting Sam's talent. He had a pre-season game of 10 staraight passes and a TD. But CK's game plan has no run game. Last week and then the Cowboys today, compeltely dismantled Murray. But yet Murray led the league last year. Which only furhter proves the old saying the game is won in the trenches.

 

[JConXtsy]

It's won in the trenches but it's certainly a concerted effort. Look at what a chump Joseph Randle looks like compared to Murray with the same line.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

It's really simple. Murray chose money over an O-Line. Dallas made him an offer, in Murray's eyes it wasn't enough. So he went for the bucks. Good for him but he had maybe 10 yds tonight after 8 or 9 last week.

Flip that with CK who cut ties w/ two proven Eagle O-linemen to have money in the cap to sign a back like Murray.

 

[JConXtsy]

Yeah, that's a good point.
But in defense of Murray, everyone in Dallas believes that he should have been franchised and locked in Dallas.
They should not have wasted it on Dez. Dez deserves his money and he still ended up getting what he wanted even with the franchise tag.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Yeah, that's a good point.
But in defense of Murray, everyone in Dallas believes that he should have been franchised and locked in Dallas.
They should not have wasted it on Dez. Dez deserves his money and he still ended up getting what he wanted even with the franchise tag.

Well I think differently. Only because the Dallas front officce built the current team on a QB, Romo, someone for him to throw to, Dez, and a great line that allows an avg RB what you call a chump inRandle look better today than a great RB in Murray. It's all in a draft and team building philosophy.

 

[JConXtsy]

Wait. You're comparing RBs with different lines. I'm comparing what Randle has done with the Cowboys' line and what Murray did with the Cowboys' line.

Randle 2015 - 34 attempts, 116 yards, 3.4 avg, 0 tds
Demarco 2014 (first 2 games) - 51 attempts, 285 yards, 5.6 avg, 2 tds

In my mind, I have no doubt that Demarco would have more than 116 yards, a better average, and at least 1 TD had he stayed with the Boys.

The Cowboys' absolutely wasted their franchise tag on Dez. It's like they flushed it down the toilet. They ended up giving him his desired contract anyhow. They should have used the franchise tag on Demarco. It was clear to everyone with a pulse. They really messed up.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Wait. You're comparing RBs with different lines. I'm comparing what Randle has done with the Cowboys' line and what Murray did with the Cowboys' line.

Randle 2015 - 34 attempts, 116 yards, 3.4 avg, 0 tds
Demarco 2014 (first 2 games) - 51 attempts, 285 yards, 5.6 avg, 2 tds

In my mind, I have no doubt that Demarco would have more than 116 yards, a better average, and at least 1 TD had he stayed with the Boys.

The Cowboys' absolutely wasted their franchise tag on Dez. It's like they flushed it down the toilet. They ended up giving him his desired contract anyhow. They should have used the franchise tag on Demarco. It was clear to everyone with a pulse. They really messed up.

No, I'm comaparing RBs to the same line. the Cowboys are 2-0 w/o Murray. Although, the loss of Romo & Bryant will be very difficult to overcome. IMO, DeMarco messed up. He gave up a great O-line for a bad situation. He walked from a decent Cowboy's offer. And BTW, there was any other NFL standing in line to pay Murray what he wanted. I think you're missing the whole big pic w/ salary caps and RBs in today's NFL. Top tier RBs make less money these days than does top tier WRs.

I also think your basing regarding your thoughts on Dez & DeMarco based on past histories of OU & OSU. I'm not. I have the ability to seperate the CFB & NFL. Murray had had a history of injury throughout his career be it OU or Dallas. The risk was too great for Murray to be injured again. And from what I witnessed yesterday, I don't see him making it through the whole year w/o injury.

Murray is being reduced to a below avg RB w/o a decent O-Line. With an elite O-line last year, he led the league. This speaks volumes.

 

[JConXtsy]

I don't think you understand the franchise tag.
I'm not advocating the amount the eagles paid Murray.
I recognize like everyone that RBs aren't worth much in the NFL anymore.
The cowboys reserved the franchise tag for Dez thinking they would be able to save money on his contract. They didn't, so they pissed away the franchise tag.
Dez got paid exactly what he would have without it.
Had they been smart, they would have given Murray the tag. He'd still be with the team at the appropriate pay scale. Dez would be with us at the same rate, and the line still intact.

So the choice comes down to this, which team do you pick considering both cost the same amount, financially equivalent:
1) Romo, Randle, Bryant and the line
2) Romo, Murray, Bryant and the line

I know which team I pick.

I encourage you to do a little Google research on the nfl franchise tag.

 

[SoonerSA]

I watched the game and thought the play calling was abysmal. CK I believes calls the plays so to my reasoning it was all on him. The lack of playing time for Demarco was puzzling. Sproles is good no doubt in certain instances but when a running play is called to make a first down would you rather have Demarco in the backfield or Sproles. CK chose Sproles. Sam could never get into the rhythm of the game with want I considered dysfunctional play calling. But when a team loses its all on the QB. So now it seems Sanchez will take the helm. Will it be any different? Doubt it.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

I don't think you understand the franchise tag.
I'm not advocating the amount the eagles paid Murray.
I recognize like everyone that RBs aren't worth much in the NFL anymore.
The cowboys reserved the franchise tag for Dez thinking they would be able to save money on his contract. They didn't, so they pissed away the franchise tag.
Dez got paid exactly what he would have without it.
Had they been smart, they would have given Murray the tag. He'd still be with the team at the appropriate pay scale. Dez would be with us at the same rate, and the line still intact.

So the choice comes down to this, which team do you pick considering both cost the same amount, financially equivalent:
1) Romo, Randle, Bryant and the line
2) Romo, Murray, Bryant and the line

I know which team I pick.

I encourage you to do a little Google research on the nfl franchise tag.

Man, you are completely missing on this. You're concerned w/ 'tag' but bottom line the key here is Salary Cap. There is only so much and the Cowboys chose to spend it on Romo, the O-line & Dez as the big money tickets. They offered what they could on Murray, he bolted. and with this, I'm done with the thread and to be honest, as long as Bradford and Murray are Eagles, I wish them to stsy healthy but lose every damn game they play. Oh... and that they enjoy their paychecks!

 

[JConXtsy]

I never missed the point. The point is the salary cap, yes. And the franchise tag effects the salary of a player and your ability to retain him. It's that easy.

They gave Bryant the franchise tag hoping to only have to pay him $12.8M for 1 yr and then negotiate with him next year.
It didn't work. They still ended up giving him 5 years, $70M.... and the franchise tag. Waste.

They could have used the franchise tag on Murray and kept him for a 1-year deal.
The defense seems to be doing pretty dang well without Greg Hardy.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

I never missed the point. The point is the salary cap, yes. And the franchise tag effects the salary of a player and your ability to retain him. It's that easy.

They gave Bryant the franchise tag hoping to only have to pay him $12.8M for 1 yr and then negotiate with him next year.
It didn't work. They still ended up giving him 5 years, $70M.... and the franchise tag. Waste.

They could have used the franchise tag on Murray and kept him for a 1-year deal.
The defense seems to be doing pretty dang well without Greg Hardy.

Murray isn't worthy of a franchise tag. He was a 3rd pick and has had one good year in the NFL.

 

[soonernacho]

Or do we finally have to come to the realization that he's just not a very good professional quarterback? I've heard every excuse in the book to explain away Sam's troubles and thought some were valid when he was with the Rams but this Eagles team has weapons and Sam still doesn't look very good.

It is only 2 games but Eagles are by far dead last in the NFL in rushing and they have 3 great backs. That is all on Chip Kelly scheme and the oline changes. Last year Eagles were a top 10 running team.

Lack of a running game is putting Sam in a lot of 3rd and long looks and no rhythm on offense. Then there are drive killing penalties and drops, tipped INTs and missed game winning FGs. Eagles top WR tied for 2nd in NFL dropped passes. No other team has their #1 passing option with more dropped passes. And how many times did Gruden talk about nobody getting open for Eagles on that Monday night game. Agholor as rookie replacing Maclin is going through growing pains.

Those are the biggest issues but Sam is not helping things. Sam has poor escapability which makes his bad oline even worse. There is limited improvising when guys are covered. So when Sam loses his accuracy like he did crucial parts of the Dallas game he has nothing else positive to offer his team.

Right now I see him as a middle of the pack NFL QB with limited upside. He can win you games but will need a great oline. A lot of QBs starting are worse than Sam and some QBs better than him like Andrew Luck have looked just as bad so far.

 

[Oklabama]

I admittedly don't watch the NFL, but I was curious enough that I wanted to see how Sam and DeMarco would do since they were playing together again so I watch last week's game. I saw something that may not be an issue in the NFL, but if I were playing defense and the QB looked like Sam, i.e., wide eyed and kinda scared, everytime he got to the LOS, that would just give me confidence. And how does that look go over in the huddle? He just looks out of his element to me.

 

[BillyRay]

Murray isn't worthy of a franchise tag. He was a 3rd pick and has had one good year in the NFL.

Absolutely this!!! I wish all the best for Murray since he is an OU guy, but he's had one great season. Plus, why would the Cowboys waste, that's right WASTE, a franchise tag on a guy that has a history of having trouble staying healthy?? Murray had the talent to be maybe one of the best RBs in the NFL since he entered the league, but injuries have cut into his production. So I don't blame the Cowboys and Jerry Jones for skipping putting a franchise tag on Murray.

 

[ESPiam]

My personal jury is still out...I avoid him and Murray anywhere near my fantasy rosters. Nice wins in Draft Kings last week! Havent had a losing week yet but havent won a miliion either..lol

Man did Murray give Sam a look last week...Yikes! Wont let me embed it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CPhjAV_XAAEE0LH.mp4

 

[Soonersincefitty]

My personal jury is still out...I avoid him and Murray anywhere near my fantasy rosters. Nice wins in Draft Kings last week! Havent had a losing week yet but havent won a miliion either..lol

Man did Murray give Sam a look last week...Yikes! Wont let me embed it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CPhjAV_XAAEE0LH.mp4

Say, what's the minimum buy in for that and Fanduel?

A couple of C notes?

 

[ESPiam]

Draft Kings is better and has a better payout to the lower teams. I deposited $10 last week in Draft Kings (you can do $5) I played three games 2 for $3 each and got a free game and won $59 so I had $63 to my balance. Its fun and it doesnt cost much. Use this link if you want to play so I can get credit. you'll get a free game with your deposit and you can only deposit $5 if you want https://www.draftkings.com/r/ESPiam

 

[ESPiam]

I did $10 in Fan Duel played 3 game last week and got skunked. They sent me a free game this week so one more chance to give Fan Duel a chance. But draft kings is much better for the casual player!

 

[Soonersincefitty]

I did $10 in Fan Duel played 3 game last week and got skunked. They sent me a free game this week so one more chance to give Fan Duel a chance. But draft kings is much better for the casual player!

Thanks, with my 'fixed' income that sounds doable. (Draft Kings that is)

 

[ESPiam]

I understand perfectly...stay to the $3 games and look at the scoring points....do your homework and look for the cheap guys that can help you out so you can buy you the positions that contribute most to your point total. Carson Palmer is a cheap QB and him and Larry Fitzgerald also cheap hooked up for 3 tds last week. They really saved me. USe my link so I can get credit please https://www.draftkings.com/r/ESPiam

 

[ESPiam]

If others would play it would be nice to have a thread devoted to it.

 

[ESPiam]

Thanks, with my 'fixed' income that sounds doable. (Draft Kings that is)

Well I played three $3 games on draft kings today (Sunday games only) . Got shutout on two of them. But I still got one card alive for tonight. Its real close to the payout line and a few thousand players above me are out of players so Im going to win something for sure on that one. Whatever happens is fine Im playing on their money I won last week anyway.

Played one $5 game on Fan Duel and a free promo game. Got smoked on the Promo not even close to the payline. Won $40 on the $5 game. Had AJ Green, Julio and Fitz, so that carried me.

Two weeks in a row I made profit.... small but better than losing. Still like Draft Kings alot better..yahoo free fantasy is really starting to bore me now

 

[JConXtsy]

Uhhhh.

Absolutely this!!! I wish all the best for Murray since he is an OU guy, but he's had one great season. Plus, why would the Cowboys waste, that's right WASTE, a franchise tag on a guy that has a history of having trouble staying healthy?? Murray had the talent to be maybe one of the best RBs in the NFL since he entered the league, but injuries have cut into his production. So I don't blame the Cowboys and Jerry Jones for skipping putting a franchise tag on Murray.

So explain to me how the cowboys utilized their franchise tag wisely this year.
I'm on pins and needles.

 

[BillyRay]

Uhhhh.

So explain to me how the cowboys utilized their franchise tag wisely this year.
I'm on pins and needles.

I don't have to. I never said Dallas used it wisely, but I sure as hell don't see Murray as a wise use either. For some reason you do?? So you explain why it would have been a wise move to utilize the franchise tag on Murray?? Hell, given Murray's history he would have ended up injured a good part of the year like he usually does.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

BTW, yesterday in the NFL...

Murray 0 rushes, 0 yds, 0 TDs, sitting on th bench
Randle 14 rushes, 87 yds, 3 TDs, running behind a solid line.

Let's throw a franchise tag on Randle.

 

[JConXtsy]

And Cowboys lack of running game prevents them from putting away a 28-14 game.
1-6 on 3rd downs
A pathetic 25 min TOP

Stats can be made to prove anything.

 

[JConXtsy]

Randle's Runs vs Falcons:
First 3 runs in the first couple minutes of the game - 28, 37, 20 (85 yards on 3 carries for a 28 avg)
After - 1, -1, 1, 4, 1, 0, 1, -1, -4, 2, -2, 1 (3 yards on 11 carries for a 0.25 avg)

And once again, median performance shows more truth to the story.
Median Gain - 1 yd

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Matt Ryan & Julio Jones are a great tag team offensively and I think we'll see that they will put up some great numbers this year and I don't see many defenses that will shut them down. The Cowboys lost IMO with the inability of being able to stretch the field and miss Bryant & Romo far more than Murray. Atlanta and most defenses are going to stack the line to stop the run and make Weeden throw the ball. I believe we would have all witnessed a different defensive look by Atlanta if Bryant was at WR and Romo throwing the ball. BTW, I also think most teams will play the Cowboys this way until they prove they can stretch the field and that Weeden can beat them. Cassell might be a bit better than Weeden but will need some time to learn the offense. Time will tell...but come on... Franchise Tag Randle!!!

 

[JConXtsy]

A franchise tag on Demarco would have ended up keeping him at about $10M for one year. The key operative here is 1-yr. He wouldn't become a long-term anchor to the salary cap like he was wanting with $8M for 4-5 years. Instead they gave Greg Hardy $11M and he's missing 25% of the season, and we've shown we probably don't need him. So the money was there to keep Murray. The Cowboys robbed Peter to pay Paul.
It's down to opinion, and I doubt you'll change mine. I would much rather have seen Romo, Dez and Murray give it one more shot as a trio. I think Murray could have had one more 350-carry season and would have been a lifesaver in the current situation without Romo.
Defenses stacked to stop Murray last year, and they weren't very effective. It's my opinion that Demarco could have done more with the Cowboys' line than the committee of Randle, McFadden and Dunbar. The Cowboys would be sitting at 3-0 right now.