Is OU to blame for the Arena Football in the Big 12?

[OUSOONER67]

If not then who is responsible for the high octane offenses and lack of playing defense in this league? OU certainly has played a huge role. Are we to blame for our own defensive failures? I was about to ask this question last night but decided not to but tonight I saw a post by Rush2112Sooner that pretty much said the same thing.
Who is to blame for the Offenses in the Big 12 that causes the lack of defensive play? Did OU create the Frankenstein?
Just would like to see what everyone thinks about this.

 

[CTOkie]

I would not use the word "blame", but OU has been the main influence for the wide open offenses in the Big 12.
My issue with "arena-style" football is it ignores good defensive play.......or even adequate defensive play.
There's no doubt in my mind that if OU could have been just marginally better on defense, national championships could have occurred at least 3-4 times since 2008.
OU keeps recruiting well, but its disregard for defense in the coaches it hires and players recruited, is alarming. Good defensive players come into the program each season but never reach a level of excellence.
With such awesome offenses, OU doesn't need an Alabama-type defense. It just needs a better defense. That way, games like this year's Texas game would never happen.
It would help if OU 's offense could eat up more time on the clock to give the defense rest, especially as the game enters the 4th quarter. Too many times OU's shoddy defense has been made even worse due to fatigue....again, the Texas game is a good example.
Also, these bad defensive efforts put more pressure on the defense to score on every possession and to avoid turnovers. There's no margin for error offensively.

 

[bcsoonerfan]

Oklahoma played a role. But it's still not an excuse for such abysmal defense.

In the Stoops early years when Leach was shredding most defenses at Tech, we still controlled them by bringing the fight to them and disrupting the necessary rhythm required for the high octane offenses to flow. Pressuring quarterbacks and receivers with blitzing from any defender on any play. Accepting that yards will be surrendered and creating turnovers provided the defensive stops that we no longer see.

 

[runningback43]

We definitely played a factor in it. Defending a spread offense is tough. I'd still like to see us be more physical with WR's and we need to do a better job of recruiting defensive linemen and a better job of coaching those defensive linemen. We used to have absolute studs on the defensive line. Gerald McCoy, Tommie Harris, Dusty Dvoracek just to name a few were studs when they were here. Our defensive line now just occupies people and never gets off blocks. We shouldn't have to rely on blitzing DB's and inside LB's to get a pass rush.

 

[JoeOU1]

Pressuring the QB, while completely shutting down the running game, along without playing any type of zone defense is the key to stopping these offenses.

 

[runningback43]

I disagree with that. It's a lot easier to stop the run when you are playing zone coverage. When you play man coverage, the WR's just run the corners off, plus in the play action game the DB's are very susceptible to double moves by the receivers. I prefer zone coverage over man coverage, but you must mix the coverage up as well. I am not a fan of 4 deep or 3 deep coverage. I prefer basic cover 2 with a mix of man under and cover 2 over the top.

 

[8085sooner]

Bob Stoops and Mike Leach brought the spread
Mangino brought the Hybrid, spread
Long tweaked it even more but went more run.
OkieLite was the 1st I saw the no huddle
Wilson went to a hurry up No huddle
Josh went along but never developed a feel for the game
LR, brought back the spread. OU only uses Perinne and Mixon 15 total plays in the RRS. Bob steps in and makes LR, run the ball, Use TE and FB and the last 3 years OU has been rolling' offensively.

 

[runningback43]

I have been trying for two years to get my head coach at the high school level to go to the OU offense. Power run game out of the spread is darn near impossible to stop.

 

[owenfieldreams]

I think, besides hiring Leach, the other significant influence has been the transformation of our primary recruiting area (Texas) from an option and or I-formation oriented H.S. scene to a wide open 7/7 offensive explosion that emphasizes speed and skill and less strength and physicality. Texas used to produce a lot of great D players. Now it's all QB's, WR's, and RB's.

 

[ohyoubaby]

If not then who is responsible for the high octane offenses and lack of playing defense in this league? OU certainly has played a huge role. Are we to blame for our own defensive failures? I was about to ask this question last night but decided not to but tonight I saw a post by Rush2112Sooner that pretty much said the same thing.
Who is to blame for the Offenses in the Big 12 that causes the lack of defensive play? Did OU create the Frankenstein?
Just would like to see what everyone thinks about this.

We created the monster when Leach came.

 

[Belldozer1]

Oklahoma played a role. But it's still not an excuse for such abysmal defense.

In the Stoops early years when Leach was shredding most defenses at Tech, we still controlled them by bringing the fight to them and disrupting the necessary rhythm required for the high octane offenses to flow. Pressuring quarterbacks and receivers with blitzing from any defender on any play. Accepting that yards will be surrendered and creating turnovers provided the defensive stops that we no longer see.

You are spot on imo. When Leach left OU, Bob and Mike pretty much were the only ones who were slowing down Leach’s offense when he went to Tech. They did it by 2 things, and they said it many times, bringing pressure and sure tackling. Both of them often admitted that Leach’s team would get some completions but you had to tackle them and make them work for every first down. Nothing has changed but the Stoops bros. Got away from demanding our players tackle well and of course we can no longer get pressure on anyone.

 

[runningback43]

You are spot on imo. When Leach left OU, Bob and Mike pretty much were the only ones who were slowing down Leach’s offense when he went to Tech. They did it by 2 things, and they said it many times, bringing pressure and sure tackling. Both of them often admitted that Leach’s team would get some completions but you had to tackle them and make them work for every first down. Nothing has changed but the Stoops bros. Got away from demanding our players tackle well and of course we can no longer get pressure on anyone.

Bad tackling is a product of not being able to go live as much during practice in my opinion.

 

[humblesooner]

Bad tackling is a product of not being able to go live as much during practice in my opinion.

Doesn't explain why we are in the bottom third of the Big 12 in defense.
Teams like KSU, TCU, ISU, etc can't have any more l "live" than OU.
Yet they field better defenses with lesser talent.
AND...OU doesn't have to face the best offense in the league to make their stats even worse.

 

[runningback43]

Doesn't explain why we are in the bottom third of the Big 12 in defense.
Teams like KSU, TCU, ISU, etc can't have any more l "live" than OU.
Yet they field better defenses with lesser talent.
AND...OU doesn't have to face the best offense in the league to make their stats even worse.

I don't think anybody tackles very well anymore. NFL teams don't tackle as well as they used to, some college teams tackle better than others but not like they did 20 years ago.

 

[roygbell]

No one has ever put the "blame" on Switzer for the great running games in the old Big 8 conference. He was just the coach that embraced the Wishbone offense. So, blame is for sure the wrong word for the changes in the offensive style that Bob Stoops brought to the Big XII as he is just the head coach that embraced these spread offenses that took the conference.

Riley is going to have a huge impact upon most of these Big XII wide open spread type offenses. Riley is bringing back the "run the ball" game back to the offense.

The only thing I blame Bob Stoops for is making some bad hires back some years ago along with dropping the ball on defensive recruiting back in the late 2000s, around the 2007/2008 mark.

 

[humblesooner]

No one has ever put the "blame" on Switzer for the great running games in the old Big 8 conference. He was just the coach that embraced the Wishbone offense. So, blame is for sure the wrong word for the changes in the offensive style that Bob Stoops brought to the Big XII as he is just the head coach that embraced these spread offenses that took the conference.

Riley is going to have a huge impact upon most of these Big XII wide open spread type offenses. Riley is bringing back the "run the ball" game back to the offense.

The only thing I blame Bob Stoops for is making some bad hires back some years ago along with dropping the ball on defensive recruiting back in the late 2000s, around the 2007/2008 mark.

When Bob came to OU, he was one of the best defensive minds around.
One of the first great things he did? Look back on his career and find out what gave him the most trouble as a DC and figure out a way to implement that. He knew it was the most difficult to defend from experience and he wanted to be the most difficult to defend.
It would be awesome if Lincoln took the same approach. Take a look at who / what has given him the most trouble as an OC and implement that. Make his defense the most difficult to beat.

 

[Rush2112Sooner]

Nobody’s blaming Bob for his Offense, it’s the Defense—the one that won us a Natty, that never evolved as the Offenses evolved in the conference. The “blame” is that he allowed everything leading up to the present, which LR has to try and clean up — assuming he doesn’t jump to the NFL at the end of the season.

 

[OUSOONER67]

I don't think anybody tackles very well anymore. NFL teams don't tackle as well as they used to, some college teams tackle better than others but not like they did 20 years ago.

I cannot remember where they talked about that, tackling and how it has suffered because of the health risks these days. I believe it was duringba Big 12 game this year and they were saying how tackling had taken a turn for the worse and they were specifically talking about the HS level in Texas. Anyone else see that? Wish I could remember which game it was.

 

[CTOkie]

I'm seeing defensive play, whether it's in football or baseball, in decline and I'm starting to think it may be, in part, by design.
There aren't too many 10-7 or 14-7 scores in football anymore....and MLB is pimping home runs (launch angles, exit speed...what BS !) in the absence of hitting to the opposite field, bunting runners over, stealing bases and just good situational hitting, as games are always about relieving starting pitchers in the 5th or 6th inning and having 3 or more relievers finish the game.
The Red Sox won it all by bucking this trend...at least more than the other 29 teams did.
The old saying that "offense sells tickets, defense wins championships" still lives.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

CT, I csn't to speak to the football angle but baseball is a different animal. Pitching still beats hitting. I don't see this changing anytime soon. But there is no doubt that the hitters are beginning to 'see' the pitch better these days and are able to respond accordingly. I believe the hitters are able to watch video over & over of their swings. This allows them to ake change, adjustments etc to better hit the ball. Add to this, the ability to 'see' the pitch or understand the spin on the ball better allows them to adjust their swings. These technical advances has changed baseball dramtically. A batter can view is last at bat instantly in the clubhouse these days. But the homerun is still a crowd pleaser and crowd favorite. Strategic bunting, then stealing a base is tactical but not nearly as exciting as a blast off a bat that sails over a fence. The Babe sealed that deal and it's been copied ever since. So while technology has our TVs examining these blasts differently, homeruns have been around forever. The Home Run derby is around for a reason. People enjoy the hell out of them.

 

[runningback43]

I cannot remember where they talked about that, tackling and how it has suffered because of the health risks these days. I believe it was duringba Big 12 game this year and they were saying how tackling had taken a turn for the worse and they were specifically talking about the HS level in Texas. Anyone else see that? Wish I could remember which game it was.

I remember this being talked about, but I don't remember which game either. I do know that tackling at the high school level in Nebraska is not as good as it was 10 years ago. When the national federation limited the amount of contact you can have in practice is when tackling started to fall off.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

I remember this being talked about, but I don't remember which game either. I do know that tackling at the high school level in Nebraska is not as good as it was 10 years ago. When the national federation limited the amount of contact you can have in practice is when tackling started to fall off.

In addition to time limitations, the type of tackling allowed has changed as well. Today's football is built to safely protect players. A result of these rules changes is the current level of defensive play. Even in the NFL, defenses are not the same. IMO, today's football defenses should be built to disrupt the rythym of a QB, his timing, be it a pass or a hand off. Defensive lineman is a big time importance in the game.

 

[kcstorm06]

Seems like often they go for the highlight reel stick versus the fundamentally sound wrap up and drop. Football athletes these days are bigger and faster, so that means a real emphasis on defensive players is to be stronger, quicker, and certainly better coached. Sooners have a ways to go on most defensive fronts to be even an average defense. Many steps backwards over several years.

 

[CTOkie]

CT, I csn't to speak to the football angle but baseball is a different animal. Pitching still beats hitting. I don't see this changing anytime soon. But there is no doubt that the hitters are beginning to 'see' the pitch better these days and are able to respond accordingly. I believe the hitters are able to watch video over & over of their swings. This allows them to ake change, adjustments etc to better hit the ball. Add to this, the ability to 'see' the pitch or understand the spin on the ball better allows them to adjust their swings. These technical advances has changed baseball dramtically. A batter can view is last at bat instantly in the clubhouse these days. But the homerun is still a crowd pleaser and crowd favorite. Strategic bunting, then stealing a base is tactical but not nearly as exciting as a blast off a bat that sails over a fence. The Babe sealed that deal and it's been copied ever since. So while technology has our TVs examining these blasts differently, homeruns have been around forever. The Home Run derby is around for a reason. People enjoy the hell out of them.

Strikeouts are up in spite of hitters watching videos (So much for "seeing the pitch better"). In addition, with all the shifts employed these days, hitters either can't or won't make adjustments to counteract them. And bunting is fading fast. MLB is now very one-dimensional. And the Home Run Derby is nothing more than a batting practice to appeal mostly to casual fans.
Baseball today is not the game it was 30 years ago. Part of it is the dilution of talent by having 30 teams which forces teams to carry players that are either not ready to play at a major league level or are past their prime, or just suck. Other issues are 3-5 hour rain delays....Teams 25 games out of first having pile on celebrations for walk-off rallies....the excessive righty-lefty maneuvering.....the general fragility of pitchers.....the cost of attending a MLB game.....and the scheduling absurdity (weekend or holiday games at night, starting the season in March and in places without a dome or in a southern climate, and the absurd length of games. Football and basketball are now the preferred choice of most black kids, and this hurts baseball as well.
The deterioration of the game that true, long standing fans of baseball see now resembles little of the classic game of baseball.
From what I saw this past year, the Red Sox showed much more adherence to the playing of "classic" baseball as they could win games in so many different ways besides hitting home runs....which they did a lot of as well.

 

[WhyNotaSooner]

Strikeouts are up in spite of hitters watching videos (So much for "seeing the pitch better"). In addition, with all the shifts employed these days, hitters either can't or won't make adjustments to counteract them. And bunting is fading fast. MLB is now very one-dimensional. And the Home Run Derby is nothing more than a batting practice to appeal mostly to casual fans.
Baseball today is not the game it was 30 years ago. Part of it is the dilution of talent by having 30 teams which forces teams to carry players that are either not ready to play at a major league level or are past their prime, or just suck. Other issues are 3-5 hour rain delays....Teams 25 games out of first having pile on celebrations for walk-off rallies....the excessive righty-lefty maneuvering.....the general fragility of pitchers.....the cost of attending a MLB game.....and the scheduling absurdity (weekend or holiday games at night, starting the season in March and in places without a dome or in a southern climate, and the absurd length of games. Football and basketball are now the preferred choice of most black kids, and this hurts baseball as well.
The deterioration of the game that true, long standing fans of baseball see now resembles little of the classic game of baseball.
From what I saw this past year, the Red Sox showed much more adherence to the playing of "classic" baseball as they could win games in so many different ways besides hitting home runs....which they did a lot of as well.

After reading this, one would think that you hate baseball.