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I guess I will say it first but not the only one thinking it I am sure

OUSOONER67

OUSOONER67

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Mar 23, 2004
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I have posted a few comments about Bob still being on the staff as a Special Assistant at over 300,000 a year salary and nobody has touched on it at all. What is he being retained for? What is his role in day to day decisions? What kind of input is he giving? Is he being paid to help Riley?
Save that money and let Bob fully retire and use that extra money to hire a great DC.
I also do not think Riley is ready or was ready to take over a big time program like OU. Are we trying to get back to the glory days of OU Football winning National Titles or are we content just winning little 12 titles like we did under Stoops? I get the feeling that as long as OU wins a little 12 title every now and then your job is safe and its something to hang your hat on but outside the big 12 it is laughed about. Until OU gets serious and wants to get back to winning National Titles all we will ever be is "Pretenders"
Lets get real, I played football until I graduated HS in 85 and have watched football longer than that and if anyone thinks we will win another National Title with our current DC and Defensive staff you are in for a long long wait.
The jury is still out on Riley, the verdict on Mike and Bob was reached long ago and for me personally I want Bob and Mike both gone from the Program, for the good of the program and if they really care about OU especially Bob since he said recently that he is happy for Lincoln, then just retire completely and let him do his job. Retire, get off the payroll, no special title, just retire and let Riley be his own man and have his own team. Would Bob have put up with this crap? Hell NO!
 
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I will say this about Bob, if he wanted to retire then he should have just completely stepped away. This whole situation where he is some sort of assistant means he wanted to retire, without really retiring. He still has his hands into things clearly. I think he still likes being around the program and mingling around and feeling important, but yet he doesn't want to shoulder any responsibility as the head coach anymore. As to how much pull he has on daily decisions, your guess is as good as mine.

I do think Riley maybe wasn't quite ready. But I still like the idea of him being our head coach as he seems to have a VERY bright future ahead of him. The true test comes a handful of years down the road to see where the program goes from here. The 2017 season was pretty much already primed for him to take over and have a very successful run. If Bob were still the head coach for 2017, then I don't see much different happening. The talent was there, so I'm sure OU would have made it to the playoffs regardless. Riley will get better in time I think. No doubt I think he tightened up during the Rose Bowl and it showed in the play calling. But I think he will learn from it and be better prepared next time.

As for being just happy with winning Big XII titles, that is pretty much what happened under Bob. Bob set up his job security as head coach in his first 10 years as head coach. Since then, it's been more of a situation of being happy with 10-win seasons and winning the Big XII title. Outside of that, most seemed too afraid of returning to the John Blake days in regards to looking at options other than Bob. Because I posted it before, that I didn't think OU was ever going to win another national title under Bob Stoops. But that fear of going back to how the program was before Bob, meant many learned to be happy with lower expectations.

My fear with Riley is he is either blind, or is frozen with loyalty to Bob with the Mike situation. This was Mike's 6th season back at OU. But here we are 6 years later, and there are still issues with defensive talent, lack of depth on the defensive side, the ever issue of players even being able to line up correctly, playing with fundamentals or even knowing how to frikin tackle properly. In many cases, players end up REGRESSING during their careers at OU!!! It's just ridiculous. But apparently it appears that Riley will NOT make a change. As usual, Mike has a few games per season where his defense looks pretty decent, and it's just enough to justify keeping him around. Or maybe today's move was to make things looks good publicly, while something is in the works to ease Mike out and make it look respectfully.

I remember before the Rose Bowl over on the pay board, there was a thread discussing whether Mike would actually show up with a 3-man front. Most actually gave Mike the benefit of the doubt that he couldn't be dumb enough to do it. A few said they wouldn't be surprised to see Mike do it just to try and prove he could do it. Well...those few were right. He actually trotted out that 3-man front with those horrible LBs and tried to shut down that Georgia offense. And god almighty did it ever fail miserably. Jesus Christ their 2 RBs ran for 326yds on 25 carries. That's just over 13yds per carry!!! Mike really showed us didn't he!!!!

Riley keeping Mike around really worries me about OU football moving forward. Some years down the road we may be looking back on this decision and think "yep, that was the first move we should have known OU football was in trouble". Hopefully I end up being wrong.

As to your question whether Bob would put up with this crap or not. Yes, he would. He wouldn't be getting rid of brother Mike either.

Good lord...sorry for the rant.
 
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My Personal Thanks to both 67 and Billy Ray for addressing this, and getting the Elephant in the room out in the open. I've had the thoughts for a similar post swirling around in my Seriously Senior Mind, but they won't settle down long enough for me to put them on paper...I'm glad U2 did it for me...HOWEVER, and isn't there Always a However? I can't resist 'piling on'...

I'm not Bashing Bob, or Lincoln...Both HAVE Done, and Lincoln WILL DO a good job of representing OU, going forward, but I dislike his being a 'Puppet Coach', which it appears he may be. Bob wanted out of the back-breaking responsibilities of HC, but still wanted a finger-in-the-pie, and didn't get all the way OUT. I don't believe that his having it both ways is in the best interest of OU. Suspicious Minds Do NOT Understand...

I've had reservations about Lincoln ever since he came on board. Last year, I was disappointed that he appeared to be unaware, at the beginning of the season, what absolute TOOLS he had in Perine and Nixon. It seemed to take him 3? 4? games in to recognize their potential and maximize their roles in the Big Picture. At that point, we were 2/2, and changes WERE made. But those early games had put him on my radar, with a question mark. I was pleased when that situation improved, and we won out!

This year, I happily celebrated the oSu Victory along with everyone else, but the nagging question there was always, 'Are We that Good, or are They that BAD'? Moving right along, throughout the season, the many near misses that IMO, should have been Blowouts, still were 'Causes for Concern', and I had the nagging fear that the oSu Win was the Fluke, rather than the single Iowa State Loss...

I even posted that I'd ALMOST rather not make the CFP, than to go and put the team through another 'Laughing Stock' Experience, on the Big Stage, as had happened so many times, back in the Big-Game-Bob Days. Fast Forward to Game Day, and I was lulled into believing that my Fears were unfounded...and they WERE, until the last minute, and THEN, they Weren't. In most of those previous losses, the Players Played, but the Coaches dropped the ball, and, unbelievably, it happened, again...

I'm guessing that we, the fans, will always keep wondering what really happened, but we'll never be able to pinpoint it, because it was a combination of so many errors...all on the calls made, on Any Given Bowl Game Day, by Staff...The Ghosts of the Past still seem to haunt us...

Riley has potential...He'll improve, moving forward, and may one day get us back to #8, but if you can't do it with Baker Mayfield, can you EVER do it?

Throw in the Monster Dissatisfaction with Mike, and the poor way in which that issue has been handled, to date, and Coach Riley faces a Really Rocky Ride...

Fasten Your Seat Belts, My Sooner Brothers...
 
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I agree about the "puppet coach" label on Riley. He's clearly having to walk on eggshells right now with lots of strings attached.
Give him autonomy right now and let him create his own legacy. This will not be disrespectful of all that Bob Stoops accomplished in any way.
Let Riley be the "Jim Mackenzie" of the new century.
 
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I think Coach Riley will be fine and hopefully he'll be one of the best head coaches in the history of OU. He does need to make a couple of changes to his staff though. Kish needs to be fired now. OUr linebackers are horrible, especially the inside linebackers. They are consistently out of position and that is all coaching. How many times did Murray or Kelley go the wrong way on a simple run play against Georgia? If my linebackers in high school were that far out of position during a game, they would be getting a tongue lashing on the sidelines and in the film room.
 
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Senior Sooner said:
My Personal Thanks to both 67 and Billy Ray for addressing this, and getting the Elephant in the room out in the open. I've had the thoughts for a similar post swirling around in my Seriously Senior Mind, but they won't settle down long enough for me to put them on paper...I'm glad U2 did it for me...HOWEVER, and isn't there Always a However? I can't resist 'piling on'...

I'm not Bashing Bob, or Lincoln...Both HAVE Done, and Lincoln WILL DO a good job of representing OU, going forward, but I dislike his being a 'Puppet Coach', which it appears he may be. Bob wanted out of the back-breaking responsibilities of HC, but still wanted a finger-in-the-pie, and didn't get all the way OUT. I don't believe that his having it both ways is in the best interest of OU. Suspicious Minds Do NOT Understand...

I've had reservations about Lincoln ever since he came on board. Last year, I was disappointed that he appeared to be unaware, at the beginning of the season, what absolute TOOLS he had in Perine and Nixon. It seemed to take him 3? 4? games in to recognize their potential and maximize their roles in the Big Picture. At that point, we were 2/2, and changes WERE made. But those early games had put him on my radar, with a question mark. I was pleased when that situation improved, and we won out!

This year, I happily celebrated the oSu Victory along with everyone else, but the nagging question there was always, 'Are We that Good, or are They that BAD'? Moving right along, throughout the season, the many near misses that IMO, should have been Blowouts, still were 'Causes for Concern', and I had the nagging fear that the oSu Win was the Fluke, rather than the single Iowa State Loss...

I even posted that I'd ALMOST rather not make the CFP, than to go and put the team through another 'Laughing Stock' Experience, on the Big Stage, as had happened so many times, back in the Big-Game-Bob Days. Fast Forward to Game Day, and I was lulled into believing that my Fears were unfounded...and they WERE, until the last minute, and THEN, they Weren't. In most of those previous losses, the Players Played, but the Coaches dropped the ball, and, unbelievably, it happened, again...

I'm guessing that we, the fans, will always keep wondering what really happened, but we'll never be able to pinpoint it, because it was a combination of so many errors...all on the calls made, on Any Given Bowl Game Day, by Staff...The Ghosts of the Past still seem to haunt us...

Riley has potential...He'll improve, moving forward, and may one day get us back to #8, but if you can't do it with Baker Mayfield, can you EVER do it?

Throw in the Monster Dissatisfaction with Mike, and the poor way in which that issue has been handled, to date, and Coach Riley faces a Really Rocky Ride...

Fasten Your Seat Belts, My Sooner Brothers...
Click to expand...
 
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CTOkie said:
I agree about the "puppet coach" label on Riley. He's clearly having to walk on eggshells right now with lots of strings attached.
Give him autonomy right now and let him create his own legacy. This will not be disrespectful of all that Bob Stoops accomplished in any way.
Let Riley be the "Jim Mackenzie" of the new century.
Click to expand...

When Mac came to Oklahoma he immediately made it his program. I understand why Riley couldn’t make it his team last summer, but using the excuse that OU won another Big XII, made the playoffs and had yet another Heisman winner to roll over for keeping anyone on staff that isn’t capable of producing, getting great talent for the Sooners is showing his weakness. I still have hope that Lincoln will make the right choices.
 
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This year it wasn't necessary to have Bob going all over the country, promoting the OU brand. Baker Mayfield did that! Had we gone 9-3, like I thought could happen, it's a great 300k spent.

He is helping with recruiting, he's keeping the OU brand front and center. I think Bob will end up on the CF Playoff committee, or the BigXII commissioner. Keeping Bob around, outside of the Football Program is a good idea.

If Riley fires, or gets rid of Mike, I think Bob knew it would happen. Every new coach, brings in his OWN, staff. LR, couldn't because of the timing but now is the time. This is natural, not a slide against Bob but what has happened at every CF program across the country. Mike, Tim, Kerry are not "his" guys. Now he goes out and gets the staff he wants/needs to go to the next level. No body outside of McNeil, has job security next month.
 
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veritas59 said:
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Click to expand...
Busted, V...You Rascal! (By the way, some of his moves look SUSPICIOUSLY like Near-Crotch-Grabs, or is that just to ME?) :p

OT: I heard 'The King' sing that one in his 'Return Concert' @ The LV Hilton International, 100 years ago, it seems...We were flying home the day of his Opening Night, but husband arranged for us to attend the sold-out Media ONLY Night-Before-Performance. Fabulous Experience...Husband got Major Props for that one! He didn't think he was THAT Fond of Elvis, but Humored Me...Ponied up the price for the tickets, and at the end of the day, HE, too, was convinced that Elvis was worth it!
 
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Two thoughts :

First, If LR hands are tied and he can't get rid of Mike, then he will be gone soon to a school with better opportunity to win national championship.

Second, if Bob Stoops is the reason Mike is staying, then it will only hurt Bob's reputation.
 
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BillyRay said:
I will say this about Bob, if he wanted to retire then he should have just completely stepped away. This whole situation where he is some sort of assistant means he wanted to retire, without really retiring. He still has his hands into things clearly. I think he still likes being around the program and mingling around and feeling important, but yet he doesn't want to shoulder any responsibility as the head coach anymore. As to how much pull he has on daily decisions, your guess is as good as mine.

I do think Riley maybe wasn't quite ready. But I still like the idea of him being our head coach as he seems to have a VERY bright future ahead of him. The true test comes a handful of years down the road to see where the program goes from here. The 2017 season was pretty much already primed for him to take over and have a very successful run. If Bob were still the head coach for 2017, then I don't see much different happening. The talent was there, so I'm sure OU would have made it to the playoffs regardless. Riley will get better in time I think. No doubt I think he tightened up during the Rose Bowl and it showed in the play calling. But I think he will learn from it and be better prepared next time.

As for being just happy with winning Big XII titles, that is pretty much what happened under Bob. Bob set up his job security as head coach in his first 10 years as head coach. Since then, it's been more of a situation of being happy with 10-win seasons and winning the Big XII title. Outside of that, most seemed too afraid of returning to the John Blake days in regards to looking at options other than Bob. Because I posted it before, that I didn't think OU was ever going to win another national title under Bob Stoops. But that fear of going back to how the program was before Bob, meant many learned to be happy with lower expectations.

My fear with Riley is he is either blind, or is frozen with loyalty to Bob with the Mike situation. This was Mike's 6th season back at OU. But here we are 6 years later, and there are still issues with defensive talent, lack of depth on the defensive side, the ever issue of players even being able to line up correctly, playing with fundamentals or even knowing how to frikin tackle properly. In many cases, players end up REGRESSING during their careers at OU!!! It's just ridiculous. But apparently it appears that Riley will NOT make a change. As usual, Mike has a few games per season where his defense looks pretty decent, and it's just enough to justify keeping him around. Or maybe today's move was to make things looks good publicly, while something is in the works to ease Mike out and make it look respectfully.

I remember before the Rose Bowl over on the pay board, there was a thread discussing whether Mike would actually show up with a 3-man front. Most actually gave Mike the benefit of the doubt that he couldn't be dumb enough to do it. A few said they wouldn't be surprised to see Mike do it just to try and prove he could do it. Well...those few were right. He actually trotted out that 3-man front with those horrible LBs and tried to shut down that Georgia offense. And god almighty did it ever fail miserably. Jesus Christ their 2 RBs ran for 326yds on 25 carries. That's just over 13yds per carry!!! Mike really showed us didn't he!!!!

Riley keeping Mike around really worries me about OU football moving forward. Some years down the road we may be looking back on this decision and think "yep, that was the first move we should have known OU football was in trouble". Hopefully I end up being wrong.

As to your question whether Bob would put up with this crap or not. Yes, he would. He wouldn't be getting rid of brother Mike either.

Good lord...sorry for the rant.
Click to expand...

Being a whiz coordinator is no guarantee of becoming a great head coach. There have been tons of coordinators that have had some success but never really made an impact. Oklahoma has had two that I know of, but Gibbs came in at a really bad time. Still I never felt like he enjoyed the position. I’m not saying Lincoln Riley is going end up like Gary Gibbs, but he needs to make this his team rather than carrying on Bob’s legacy by keeping the Stoops’ staff that doesn’t belong here anymore. I guarantee you that had Lincoln accepted a job anywhere else he wouldn’t have considered Mike Stoops or Tim Kish even if they had been available. So why keep them?
 
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Senior Sooner said:
Busted, V...You Rascal! (By the way, some of his moves look SUSPICIOUSLY like Near-Crotch-Grabs, or is that just to ME?) :p

OT: I heard 'The King' sing that one in his 'Return Concert' @ The LV Hilton International, 100 years ago, it seems...We were flying home the day of his Opening Night, but husband arranged for us to attend the sold-out Media ONLY Night-Before-Performance. Fabulous Experience...Husband got Major Props for that one! He didn't think he was THAT Fond of Elvis, but Humored Me...Ponied up the price for the tickets, and at the end of the day, HE, too, was convinced that Elvis was worth it!
Click to expand...

Cool beans! Elvis was, and will always be The King.
 
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BillyRay said:
I will say this about Bob, if he wanted to retire then he should have just completely stepped away. This whole situation where he is some sort of assistant means he wanted to retire, without really retiring. He still has his hands into things clearly. I think he still likes being around the program and mingling around and feeling important, but yet he doesn't want to shoulder any responsibility as the head coach anymore. As to how much pull he has on daily decisions, your guess is as good as mine.

I do think Riley maybe wasn't quite ready. But I still like the idea of him being our head coach as he seems to have a VERY bright future ahead of him. The true test comes a handful of years down the road to see where the program goes from here. The 2017 season was pretty much already primed for him to take over and have a very successful run. If Bob were still the head coach for 2017, then I don't see much different happening. The talent was there, so I'm sure OU would have made it to the playoffs regardless. Riley will get better in time I think. No doubt I think he tightened up during the Rose Bowl and it showed in the play calling. But I think he will learn from it and be better prepared next time.

As for being just happy with winning Big XII titles, that is pretty much what happened under Bob. Bob set up his job security as head coach in his first 10 years as head coach. Since then, it's been more of a situation of being happy with 10-win seasons and winning the Big XII title. Outside of that, most seemed too afraid of returning to the John Blake days in regards to looking at options other than Bob. Because I posted it before, that I didn't think OU was ever going to win another national title under Bob Stoops. But that fear of going back to how the program was before Bob, meant many learned to be happy with lower expectations.

My fear with Riley is he is either blind, or is frozen with loyalty to Bob with the Mike situation. This was Mike's 6th season back at OU. But here we are 6 years later, and there are still issues with defensive talent, lack of depth on the defensive side, the ever issue of players even being able to line up correctly, playing with fundamentals or even knowing how to frikin tackle properly. In many cases, players end up REGRESSING during their careers at OU!!! It's just ridiculous. But apparently it appears that Riley will NOT make a change. As usual, Mike has a few games per season where his defense looks pretty decent, and it's just enough to justify keeping him around. Or maybe today's move was to make things looks good publicly, while something is in the works to ease Mike out and make it look respectfully.

I remember before the Rose Bowl over on the pay board, there was a thread discussing whether Mike would actually show up with a 3-man front. Most actually gave Mike the benefit of the doubt that he couldn't be dumb enough to do it. A few said they wouldn't be surprised to see Mike do it just to try and prove he could do it. Well...those few were right. He actually trotted out that 3-man front with those horrible LBs and tried to shut down that Georgia offense. And god almighty did it ever fail miserably. Jesus Christ their 2 RBs ran for 326yds on 25 carries. That's just over 13yds per carry!!! Mike really showed us didn't he!!!!

Riley keeping Mike around really worries me about OU football moving forward. Some years down the road we may be looking back on this decision and think "yep, that was the first move we should have known OU football was in trouble". Hopefully I end up being wrong.

As to your question whether Bob would put up with this crap or not. Yes, he would. He wouldn't be getting rid of brother Mike either.

Good lord...sorry for the rant.
Click to expand...

Excellent post...nailed it perfectly
 
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I’m going to just be patient. LR has done more for this program the past 3 years than anyone... there isn’t anyone even close. He has revitalized and energized the OU like no other since the Bob Stoops here. He’s earned my patience at this point.

As a reminder, BS was part of a 3 headed monster that include Boren & Castiglione. And Boren is leaving. The reign of the past 18 yrs or so is slowly fading away. Things are going to change. It’s just a matter of when.
 
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WhyNotaSooner said:
I’m going to just be patient. LR has done more for this program the past 3 years than anyone... there isn’t anyone even close. He has revitalized and energized the OU like no other since the Bob Stoops here. He’s earned my patience at this point.

As a reminder, BS was part of a 3 headed monster that include Boren & Castiglione. And Boren is leaving. The reign of the past 18 yrs or so is slowly fading away. Things are going to change. It’s just a matter of when.
Click to expand...

I have been patient. It’s been 4 days!! :rolleyes: You’re right, WNAS. We all just anxious.
 
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BillyRay said:
As to your question whether Bob would put up with this crap or not. Yes, he would. He wouldn't be getting rid of brother Mike either.

Good lord...sorry for the rant.
Click to expand...

My question was would Bob put up with anyone meddling in the program as a Special Assistant? Not saying that Bob is meddling but if he does still have a say with what goes on would he have wanted to be in a similar situation when he was HC? I highly doubt it but who knows.
 
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OUSOONER67 said:
My question was would Bob put up with anyone meddling in the program as a Special Assistant? Not saying that Bob is meddling but if he does still have a say with what goes on would he have wanted to be in a similar situation when he was HC? I highly doubt it but who knows.
Click to expand...

Chances are the answer would be yes... if it was Steve Spurrier.
 
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