That are out there to replace Mike Stoops? Who faces at least 5 spread (Big 12 hurry up, no huddle passing type) teams and stops them each week? Stanford has done well playing Oregon, Washington, WSU and Cal in the past, til this year, running a 3-4. Name the "great" spread defense DC, that faces them nearly each week, not just in a bowl game or the first three games of a season? Gary Patterson was genius in the Mountain West with his 4-2-5, but in the Big 12 he's getting torched just like everyone else.
Fire MIKE guys: Name top SPREAD DCs?
- Thread starter dtrain87
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Torched Really
Mike gave up 850 yards to TT, now that's torched. Don't forget it's also a NCAA record. I'm sure in your world all Top DC have that happen to them
Mike defense gave up 600 to Tulsa last year and Tulsa now has the record for the most yards ever in Norman, TULSA!
Tavon Austin went for 570 yards against Mike Stoops, one guy 570 yards, but he's a Top DC...Under Switzer, KU, KSU and ISU didn't get that many yards as a team, after 3 WHOLE games.
Don't forget Mike's excuse, "he lined up as a RB and we hadn't seen that before".
What does a bad DC look like in your world? Has any DC had as many records set against his defense?
Mike gave up 850 yards to TT, now that's torched. Don't forget it's also a NCAA record. I'm sure in your world all Top DC have that happen to them
Mike defense gave up 600 to Tulsa last year and Tulsa now has the record for the most yards ever in Norman, TULSA!
Tavon Austin went for 570 yards against Mike Stoops, one guy 570 yards, but he's a Top DC...Under Switzer, KU, KSU and ISU didn't get that many yards as a team, after 3 WHOLE games.
Don't forget Mike's excuse, "he lined up as a RB and we hadn't seen that before".
What does a bad DC look like in your world? Has any DC had as many records set against his defense?
Still no list of DCs that have stared vs pass happy spread attacks at the Power 5 level playing these teams week after week? 10 of 12 PAC 12 teams run a form of the spread, who has the "great" DC?
OK I'll play
KSU defense hasn't had a 100 year old record set against them
KU defense hasn't had a 100 year old record set against them
TCU defense hasn't had a 100 year old record set against them
OkieLite defense hasn't had a 100 year old record set against them
ISU defense hasn't had a 100 year old record set against them
Texass defense hasn't had a 100 year old record set against them
Baylor defense hasn't had a 100 year old record set against them
TT defense hasn't had a 100 year old record set against them, Texas frickin Tech!
So, that makes Mike the BOTTOM b*tch, of the BigXII
I get it's tough being a DC in the BigXII but we are OU, the Top of the Food Chain!
OU sets records, not have records set against us.
None of those teams is undefeated in the Big 12 and the league's highest ranked team!!!
Despite my "fire mike" posts (I will pointlessly keep posting), Bob will likely not commit fratricide.
At a minimum we need the best DB coach available to compensate for Mike's inabilities, and need to lure these candidates with a "co-DC" title if necessary.
I really don't know how one manufactures hope for 2017 without at least that happening.
Top 15 in passing D efficiency - start with these DB coaches.
(yes, I understand pass rush greatly impacts this, but you got to start with some metric):
Rank
Team G Opp Pass Opp Cpl Opp Int Opp Pass
Yds Opp Pass
TDs Pass Eff
1 Florida 7 173 68 10 940 5 82.92
2 Michigan 8 192 80 8 961 8 89.13
3 Ohio St. 8 247 117 12 1369 7 93.56
4 Clemson 8 257 130 12 1449 5 95.03
5 UCLA 9 322 166 12 1726 8 97.32
6 Baylor 7 207 100 9 1256 5 98.55
7 Colorado 9 296 152 12 1614 9 99.08
8 Georgia St. 9 278 146 11 1634 5 99.91
9 Army West Point 8 224 123 12 1304 7 103.41
10 Wisconsin 8 244 132 10 1537 4 104.22
11 South Carolina 8 256 143 10 1446 9 107.10
12 Virginia Tech 8 258 125 10 1667 10 107.76
13 Washington 8 247 142 7 1375 7 107.94
14 Nebraska 8 266 156 15 1643 7 107.94
15 San Diego St. 8 251 128 12 1518 12 108.01
At a minimum we need the best DB coach available to compensate for Mike's inabilities, and need to lure these candidates with a "co-DC" title if necessary.
I really don't know how one manufactures hope for 2017 without at least that happening.
Top 15 in passing D efficiency - start with these DB coaches.
(yes, I understand pass rush greatly impacts this, but you got to start with some metric):
Rank
Team G Opp Pass Opp Cpl Opp Int Opp Pass
Yds Opp Pass
TDs Pass Eff
1 Florida 7 173 68 10 940 5 82.92
2 Michigan 8 192 80 8 961 8 89.13
3 Ohio St. 8 247 117 12 1369 7 93.56
4 Clemson 8 257 130 12 1449 5 95.03
5 UCLA 9 322 166 12 1726 8 97.32
6 Baylor 7 207 100 9 1256 5 98.55
7 Colorado 9 296 152 12 1614 9 99.08
8 Georgia St. 9 278 146 11 1634 5 99.91
9 Army West Point 8 224 123 12 1304 7 103.41
10 Wisconsin 8 244 132 10 1537 4 104.22
11 South Carolina 8 256 143 10 1446 9 107.10
12 Virginia Tech 8 258 125 10 1667 10 107.76
13 Washington 8 247 142 7 1375 7 107.94
14 Nebraska 8 266 156 15 1643 7 107.94
15 San Diego St. 8 251 128 12 1518 12 108.01
The only stats that count are won/loss records, TOs and 3rd down efficiency and not being a wet noodle against the run. There is no specific measure like the past like total defense and PPG and rushing average per game. Note that of those 15 teams only 3 are Power 5 from the West/SW, Washington, Colorado, UCLA and BAYLOR? Do you really think BAYLOR has a great secondary, as much as they get burned? Army is even in the top 15. The Big 10/SEC/ACC teams play in run heavy/pro style leagues and not the WILD WILD WEST that we have in the Big 12 and PAC 12. Playing good defense vs spread teams you need defensive depth at every level, teach sound techniques and go play ball.
Les Miles would make an excellent DC and he would never let a defense be a national laughing stock. Mike has done it on a consistent basis since his return. He has been sent upstairs because of sideline antics and that's no place for a DC. Brother head coach needs to let Mike go for no other reason than nepotism. It ties his hands to the detriment of the program.
I'd take #4 from the East back in a heartbeat:
4 Clemson 8 257 130 12 1449 5 95.03
There is no region or division that has got the lock on the special sauce for defensing the pass. I would presume a DB coach from a lesser conf or division would thrive with better athletes at his disposal; its at least worth rolling the dice on. All I know is that Mike has recruited and coached our current kids with disastrous results.
Like Brady Hoke at Oregon? When was Les Miles a DC? When was he a DC against spread teams? He always coached on the offensive side of the ball and was an OL for Michigan. Where did you get him being a DC?
What's sad is your post here really is helping to make the case against your argument that Mike Stoops is a Top 5 DC of all time.....obviously you aren't able to figure out how it actually is working against you here.....
To dumb it down and make it simple, I'll simply say OU has won lately despite Mike Stoops...not because of him.
OU has won despite not having top 15 recruiting classes on defense and an abnormal amount of injuries. Bedford at Texas is horrible, Patterson is horrible, Gibbs is horrible, Spencer is horrible and Bennett is bad... Note a trend, BIG 12 defenses are horrible, despite having good coordinators against pro-style offense. Get better talent, depth and sound coaching and the defense will look better, so until then be content with a 6-0 Big 12 record and lone first place status.
Nice pivot. You are correct. Les has no DC experience. But your argument with regard to Mike being a top five DC is weak. You even made the point that there aren't ANY B12 defensive coordinators that can stop the spread offense. I going to go way out on the limb and say Bob isn't any better than Mike or he would have somehow found a solution for his baby brother not to look so crappy as a DC.
The correct response was, " you're right"! Not deflect to other aspects of the team. Comeback when you're actually ready to talk about defense and defensive coordinators.
This is Mike's 5th season back at OU...so take a wild guess as to who's fault this is......
You are actually starting to post some sensible content in your posts.
OMG, looks really bad when you read it. What is wrong with Bob and Mike? They need to do something. Just pathetic.
It is so embarrassing to watch on tv, every time they show Mike in that box. I just want to do something.
We need some Perine, Westbrook counterparts on defense. Our defense looks bored and dumb. Maybe they been around Mike too long. Just disgusting.
I got a fever for more Cowbell.
Les was defensive minded his entire tenure at LSU. That is what got him fired ... relying too much on defense ... which were usually very sound in the SEC.
LOL, and when Mike/Bob/ today's trendy scapegoat is gone, you all will do your thing about that guy's replacement too.
You people are slacking. Real OU fans would start griping about Lincoln Riley now,
You people are slacking. Real OU fans would start griping about Lincoln Riley now,
How would a different defensive alignment fixed the problems in the TT game? Hint: 8 dbs would've still gotten wrecked.
20+ defensive starters in 2016. But it is stupid complacent coaches, right?
20+ defensive starters in 2016. But it is stupid complacent coaches, right?
The fundamentals of football don't change. When all your 4 star DB's can't break up or intercept passes that should be, but allow those to become points for the other team, it raises eyebrows. When players don't know how to wrap up and tackle, it raises eyebrows.
When the excuse of injuries comes up, why is that the offense used a guy who had 0 carries to rush for over 100 yards, when before the season OU was looking at:
Perine
Mixon
Anderson
Brooks
Adams
Where was Flowers on that list? He wasn't and still isn't. Oh, the O-Line???? How many guys have moved around there because of injuries? Yep, the offense continues to produce with injuries and retiring players, but Jr. and Sr. defensive guys can't tackle... Try again.
I don't know about anyone else but to crow about OU being undefeated and the highest ranked team in the conference is not much to brag about. The big 12 is a sinking ship and will not have a team in the playoffs this year and nobody outside this conference takes any team in this conference seriously. We are a laughingstock on tv when we play defense, listen to the announcers or just play close attention to the D. For me OU being a laughingstock in football is unacceptable and the person or persons responsible for that need to be gone! This is OU this is not Kansas, this is not Okie Lite, this is not Iowa State, this is not Texas, THIS IS OU! Part of the problem is a lot of people have accepted mediocrity in a mediocre conference but I never will. Carry on.
You are munging together acceptance, with not whining like petulant babies who 'just are sick and tired' of Sooner football. You know, the 'real' fans.
I've never have been a Mike Stoops fan. OU already had the best DC in CF when Bob got the job. I was completely against Mike coming back to OU and he has not done anything since, to make me think otherwise. He has however, done a lot of things that reaffirms my opinion of his ability.
Mike has forgot that it all starts upfront. I don't care if you have the best DB's in the world. A WR will get open with enough time. We have not signed or received a commitment from a DT or NG in over 2 years. Right now OU is in desperate need on Dlineman but have we signed anyone? If we are not carefull, OU might sign some 2 star guys at DT or NG. His 3-4 defense will not be effective with scrubs up front.
Mike not a good coach
Mike is not a good recruiter
Mike is not a good game time adjust coach
Mike is not a good sideline motivator
Mike is not any good at coaching other "non" BigXII offenses. His own words!
Mike is not a good DC against the spread, 850 yards!
Mike is not any good against Dual Threat QB's
Mike has forgot that it all starts upfront. I don't care if you have the best DB's in the world. A WR will get open with enough time. We have not signed or received a commitment from a DT or NG in over 2 years. Right now OU is in desperate need on Dlineman but have we signed anyone? If we are not carefull, OU might sign some 2 star guys at DT or NG. His 3-4 defense will not be effective with scrubs up front.
Mike not a good coach
Mike is not a good recruiter
Mike is not a good game time adjust coach
Mike is not a good sideline motivator
Mike is not any good at coaching other "non" BigXII offenses. His own words!
Mike is not a good DC against the spread, 850 yards!
Mike is not any good against Dual Threat QB's
Really the only person whining in this thread is you.
But let me ask you this...if Mike Stoops had not been at OU from 1999-2003, what would your perception of him be based SOLELY on what you have seen the last 5 years?? And I say that with the knowledge that Mike Stoops shared DC duties with BrentV in 1999-2003. So AT BEST, Mike gets 50% credit for those great defenses back then. And in fact, for anyone that has any legit info on those days, former players have been reported as saying BrentV was more responsible for those great defenses back then than Mike. But I dunno...I guess now you will say former players are "whining like petulant babies"??
You have this thing. You think that somehow stupidly reversing logic makes a point. It does, just not the one you hope for.
You inconsolable fans will never be happy. You might quiet your dissatisfaction for a bit, but it is always there. But our coaches get paid millions, so you're justified.
Your relentless condemnation of those of us expressing any kind of concern or disappointment about this year's team is weak considering that so many of us have followed this team for 3-4 decades, and a few (like me) for 7 decades.
My point here is that this board is well represented with longtime loyal and knowledgeable fans who can detect a turd in the punch bowl.
The difference is I care about my team and the concerns I have are real issues. You complain about anyone that voices those concerns as being babies or whiny. I am sick and tired of people telling me what I can say and what I can feel and attack me when I do say what I think. Nobody died and made you President of the fan club.
Yep. Millions of donor dollars go into the pockets of coaches to put a competitive team on the field. So, since you admit that inconsolable fans are justified, why can't you answer the simple questions?
Should the defensive coordinator be held accountable for players who can't tackle or defend against the pass?
PTL your wasting your time with people like him. Its pretty obvious that those that voice our concern about the defense are in his words " whiney".
In truth he probably sits in front of his TV and curses like the rest of us watching this crappy D then wants to come on with his hollier than though attitude just for the sake of arguing.
Any life long fan like many of us are not happy with the direction that the OU defense has taken under Mike. He is either blind to the situation or thinks Mike is some kind of defensive guru. I will go with being blind and give him a pass because anyone who believes Mike is a top 5 or even top 10 DC must have tgeir lips attached to Mikes ass
