1 Clemson
2 OU
3 Georgia
4 Alabama
Sooners-Dawgs in Rose
Clemson-Bama in Sugar
2 OU
3 Georgia
4 Alabama
Sooners-Dawgs in Rose
Clemson-Bama in Sugar
Can you Smell the Roses? (espn stole bid from tOSU)
- Thread starter YourCrimsonNightmare
- Start date
Very rosey morning...great to be #2 and wearing our Sooner red in Pasadena. Wish I could be there in person. Going to be a tough battle.
ESPN didn't steal anything. Alabama had a legit case to be included just like Ohio State did. USC had a case as well I thought. Surprised that USC was never really included in the discussion.
Continuing the story, ESPN got their team.
They must have cash twinkles in their eyes after getting a primetime game featuring CCb and CCc. (ESPN Cash Cows Bama and Clemson)
I feel very sorry for tOU (hard to imagine that), because they were one of the 4 best, and it was stolen from them by you-know-who.
They must have cash twinkles in their eyes after getting a primetime game featuring CCb and CCc. (ESPN Cash Cows Bama and Clemson)
I feel very sorry for tOU (hard to imagine that), because they were one of the 4 best, and it was stolen from them by you-know-who.
Wow. Can't believe it actually happened as I dreamt last night on my final post but understand and am not surprised. Almighty $$$$$$$ rule and Any integrity in the process in the Land is dead ! Bucknuts and Tide are both dogmeat
Regarding the Bama-tOSU comparison, compare these:
But first, let me state the following. The single MOST important determinant is winning games, of course. But not just all games, games that count. This is not a comprehensive ranking but a determinant of the top 4 teams, where games against clearly weaker opponents simply and clearly are utterly useless. Using those games in the process would be terribly wrong. WE ARE LOOKING FOR THE FOUR BEST TEAMS. Then separate them on losses and results against the best teams, and where the games were played.
Margin of victory as a determinant is wrong for the following reason: Margin of victory is alway discussed as an occurrence against a team that is estimated to be better or worse. But that is discussed only in reference to wins and losses against teams that at the time of the game we estimated to be of some strength, such as the preseason expectation that FSU and Louisville would be highly ranked teams. But that opens the process wide to speculation and conjecture, which anathema to a fair selection process.
So if so-and-so wins by 50 or loses by 50, that doesn't matter EXCEPT for the wins and losses themselves. Margins occur for all kinds of reasons, and insecure coaches like to push the margin agains weak teams to pad their image. Other coaches loathe piling on.
That won't work in a proper scheme that ignores what is essentially irrelevant to the ranking process.
Removing games with teams either out of the FBS division or ranked below 58th in the FPI ratings are dropped as utterly irrelevant. None of the top 12 in the CPI lost to any of those two types of teams, thus their irrelevancy. I believe that there WAS a single loss in the CFP top-25 to an FCS team, but that's it.
Actually, a cutoff above a loss at #58 FPI was considered, but it seemed unfair to those teams who did lose to teams that low to single them out for exceptionial inclusion into a team's body of work. All games against teams ranked #58 or better in the FPI and who a members of the FBS subdivision are included.
I will show the results for Alabama and tOSU in a post to the added soon...
But first, let me state the following. The single MOST important determinant is winning games, of course. But not just all games, games that count. This is not a comprehensive ranking but a determinant of the top 4 teams, where games against clearly weaker opponents simply and clearly are utterly useless. Using those games in the process would be terribly wrong. WE ARE LOOKING FOR THE FOUR BEST TEAMS. Then separate them on losses and results against the best teams, and where the games were played.
Margin of victory as a determinant is wrong for the following reason: Margin of victory is alway discussed as an occurrence against a team that is estimated to be better or worse. But that is discussed only in reference to wins and losses against teams that at the time of the game we estimated to be of some strength, such as the preseason expectation that FSU and Louisville would be highly ranked teams. But that opens the process wide to speculation and conjecture, which anathema to a fair selection process.
So if so-and-so wins by 50 or loses by 50, that doesn't matter EXCEPT for the wins and losses themselves. Margins occur for all kinds of reasons, and insecure coaches like to push the margin agains weak teams to pad their image. Other coaches loathe piling on.
That won't work in a proper scheme that ignores what is essentially irrelevant to the ranking process.
Removing games with teams either out of the FBS division or ranked below 58th in the FPI ratings are dropped as utterly irrelevant. None of the top 12 in the CPI lost to any of those two types of teams, thus their irrelevancy. I believe that there WAS a single loss in the CFP top-25 to an FCS team, but that's it.
Actually, a cutoff above a loss at #58 FPI was considered, but it seemed unfair to those teams who did lose to teams that low to single them out for exceptionial inclusion into a team's body of work. All games against teams ranked #58 or better in the FPI and who a members of the FBS subdivision are included.
I will show the results for Alabama and tOSU in a post to the added soon...
It's ironic....what doomed Ohio State his year, was also the factor that benefited them last year.
This year...Ohio State getting beaten by 31 points by an unranked team likely was a big factor in them not making the playoff.
Last year...Penn State gets blown out by Michigan and gets left out of the playoff and allowing Ohio State to slip in there.
This year...Ohio State getting beaten by 31 points by an unranked team likely was a big factor in them not making the playoff.
Last year...Penn State gets blown out by Michigan and gets left out of the playoff and allowing Ohio State to slip in there.
5 Alabama (11-1)
Wk @ Div ## Opponent O PS PA OT Notes
-- - --- -- -------------- - -- -- --- ----------------
1 N P5 21 Florida St W 24 7 Atlanta, GA
2 FBS 25 Fresno St W 41 10
5 P5 53 Mississippi W 66 3
6 @ P5 42 Texas A&M W 27 19
10 P5 17 LSU W 24 10
11 @ P5 23 Mississippi St W 31 24
13 @ P5 2 Auburn L 14 26
8 Ohio State (11-2)
Wk @ Div ## Opponent O PS PA OT Notes
-- - --- -- -------------- - -- -- --- ----------------
1 @ P5 48 Indiana W 49 21
2 P5 3 Oklahoma L 16 31
9 P5 9 Penn State W 39 38
10 @ P5 24 Iowa L 24 55
11 P5 16 Michigan St W 48 3
13 @ P5 23 Michigan W 31 20
14 N P5 4 Wisconsin W 27 21 Indianapolis, IN
A discussion of these edited results will follow...
Wk @ Div ## Opponent O PS PA OT Notes
-- - --- -- -------------- - -- -- --- ----------------
1 N P5 21 Florida St W 24 7 Atlanta, GA
2 FBS 25 Fresno St W 41 10
5 P5 53 Mississippi W 66 3
6 @ P5 42 Texas A&M W 27 19
10 P5 17 LSU W 24 10
11 @ P5 23 Mississippi St W 31 24
13 @ P5 2 Auburn L 14 26
8 Ohio State (11-2)
Wk @ Div ## Opponent O PS PA OT Notes
-- - --- -- -------------- - -- -- --- ----------------
1 @ P5 48 Indiana W 49 21
2 P5 3 Oklahoma L 16 31
9 P5 9 Penn State W 39 38
10 @ P5 24 Iowa L 24 55
11 P5 16 Michigan St W 48 3
13 @ P5 23 Michigan W 31 20
14 N P5 4 Wisconsin W 27 21 Indianapolis, IN
A discussion of these edited results will follow...
Alabama deserved it more.
Buckeyes got throttled by Iowa. Bama lost a hard game to a top 10 team in a rivalry game. Case closed.
Buckeyes got throttled by Iowa. Bama lost a hard game to a top 10 team in a rivalry game. Case closed.
(Sorry about the crunched formatting above. I'm not quite familiar with the process of making text show as formatted, WITHOUT collapsing multiple spaces into one. I'll get there.)
Do you even watch the games? Bama's been struggling mightily for a month, and didn't get the opportunites to lose against strong teams. In their LAST GAME of the season they were convincingly beaten by Auburn, who in turn lost the next game to Georgia, convincingly again.
That that your team has definitely been beaten by a team that was then convincing beaten the next week is a fact that Bama can't hide.
Nor does it excuse the other reasons that I'm about to discuss.
YCN, man it's amazing just how triggered this Alabama thing has gotten you the last couple of days. Man you are eat up with this.
It really is this simple.
Alabama and Ohio State played 7 teams ranked #58 in the FPI or better.
Bama and tOSU played 3 home games, 3 road games, and one on a neutral field. (Bama vs FSU, and tOSU vs Wisconsin)
6 of 7 Bama and tOSU opponents were inside the top 25 (CFP)
Before losing emphatically to #6 Georgia, Bama won games versus 21 FSU and 25 Fresno State at the beginning of the season, then won 4 more in the last 11 weeks against 53 Ole Miss, 42 Texas A&M, 17 LSU and 23 Miss State. The FSU game was played in Atlanta, and Texas A&M and Miss State were road games.
Before winning easily against #4 Wisconsin to win the SEC, tOSU beat 48 Indiana, lost to 3 OU in the season's first 2 weeks. In week 9 they beat 9 Penn State, then lost to 24 Iowa, then beat 16 Michigan State at 23 Michigan. The games against Indiana, Iowa and Michigan were on the road.
Against the top 10: Alabama 0-1, tOSU 2-1.
Against 11-25: Bama 4-0, tOSU 3-1
Against the top 25: Bama 4-1, tOSU 5-2
Bama's top ranked wins: 17 LSU, 21 FSU, 23 Miss State,
tOSU's top ranked wins: 4 Wisconsin,9 Penn State, 16 Michigan State, 23 Michigan, 24
Alabama played games against 4 top-25 teams and won 3 of 4.
Ohio State played games against 6 top-25 teams and won 4 of 6
tOSU PLAYED 4 TEAMS BETTER THAN ANY TEAM BAMA PLAYED, AND WON 3 OF THEM, INCLUDING A TITLE GAME.
Bama missed their own title game, finishing 2nd to Auburn in their division.
There is one advantage for Bama - they lost one less game. But we cannot tell who Bama might have beaten against the 4 teams that played, because there aren't any results one way or the other because of Bama's sketchy schedule against good teams other than the one big loss to 2 Auburn that shut them out of the SEC CCG.
If Bama maybe upgraded their schedule a bit and played - say Oklahoma, are you sure that they would have won against an OU? If you aren't convinced that Bama would have beaten a team like OU, then is is reasonable to expect that if they'd actually played more games against top teams, that they would have lost more games against the best teams.
There is no such difficulty with tOSU's games.
Bama and tOSU played 3 home games, 3 road games, and one on a neutral field. (Bama vs FSU, and tOSU vs Wisconsin)
6 of 7 Bama and tOSU opponents were inside the top 25 (CFP)
Before losing emphatically to #6 Georgia, Bama won games versus 21 FSU and 25 Fresno State at the beginning of the season, then won 4 more in the last 11 weeks against 53 Ole Miss, 42 Texas A&M, 17 LSU and 23 Miss State. The FSU game was played in Atlanta, and Texas A&M and Miss State were road games.
Before winning easily against #4 Wisconsin to win the SEC, tOSU beat 48 Indiana, lost to 3 OU in the season's first 2 weeks. In week 9 they beat 9 Penn State, then lost to 24 Iowa, then beat 16 Michigan State at 23 Michigan. The games against Indiana, Iowa and Michigan were on the road.
Against the top 10: Alabama 0-1, tOSU 2-1.
Against 11-25: Bama 4-0, tOSU 3-1
Against the top 25: Bama 4-1, tOSU 5-2
Bama's top ranked wins: 17 LSU, 21 FSU, 23 Miss State,
tOSU's top ranked wins: 4 Wisconsin,9 Penn State, 16 Michigan State, 23 Michigan, 24
Alabama played games against 4 top-25 teams and won 3 of 4.
Ohio State played games against 6 top-25 teams and won 4 of 6
tOSU PLAYED 4 TEAMS BETTER THAN ANY TEAM BAMA PLAYED, AND WON 3 OF THEM, INCLUDING A TITLE GAME.
Bama missed their own title game, finishing 2nd to Auburn in their division.
There is one advantage for Bama - they lost one less game. But we cannot tell who Bama might have beaten against the 4 teams that played, because there aren't any results one way or the other because of Bama's sketchy schedule against good teams other than the one big loss to 2 Auburn that shut them out of the SEC CCG.
If Bama maybe upgraded their schedule a bit and played - say Oklahoma, are you sure that they would have won against an OU? If you aren't convinced that Bama would have beaten a team like OU, then is is reasonable to expect that if they'd actually played more games against top teams, that they would have lost more games against the best teams.
There is no such difficulty with tOSU's games.
^^This post is basically the "Cliff's Notes" to YCN's huge posts.
Only big some of the time. I'm sure that you know how that is, right?
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwkeyes ! Pinstripe Bowl on 12/27 vs Boston College AND the greatest gift that keeps on giving (not jelly of the month). They are now the biggest pariahs of the little b1g forever. NO ONE will want to play them in their own sorry conference. tosu will remember this forever as the year those "style points" were poured on in iowa city and will reward you accordingly and thank you for dooming the b1g in 2017
Ya I've watched every single bama game that was on tv...same for Ohio State. I even watched the one where Iowa put 55 on them. Clemson would have destroyed Ohio State
The committee was in a bad spot. They chose bama because their fans are much superior whiners. Committee decided they would rather listen to lesser din from osu for a couple of weeks.
Good thing for tOSU that they aren't somebody really scary like Syracuse.
You should check out the pay board sometimes. Plenty of OU fans are gifted at whining as well.
Apparently you aren't watching the games as you claim. Clemson's QB could barely run during that game against Syracuse. That kinda takes away your offense
Apparently you didn't see my sarcasm. 4-8 Syracuse was actually 3-8 against FBS teams and 2-7 against power 5 teams, including a win against Clemson. They went 1-7 against all other power 5 teams they played, beating only Pitt in addition to the win over Clemson.
When did [whoever] decide that injuries were to be factored out of games by giving a hall pass to the wounded and hurting teams of this world?
Football is a violent collision sport. Injuries will always be a part of the game. NOBODY should get "credit" for losing because of injury. That's just the way the ball rolls. If you lose when hurt, you lose. Nobody said this game was to be handicapped to admitting the presence of teams in the discussion because they they needed a boost because they lost when hurt.
This is just another influence of the globalist culture being forced on people in this country, giving them things they don't even want because somebody other than you decides that it's the right thing to do.
Football is a violent collision sport. Injuries will always be a part of the game. NOBODY should get "credit" for losing because of injury. That's just the way the ball rolls. If you lose when hurt, you lose. Nobody said this game was to be handicapped to admitting the presence of teams in the discussion because they they needed a boost because they lost when hurt.
This is just another influence of the globalist culture being forced on people in this country, giving them things they don't even want because somebody other than you decides that it's the right thing to do.
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The Rose folks have to be collectively frustrated. They are 'stuck with the Joad's v the hillbillies' instead of getting their premier pac v b1g yearly pillow fight... tosu and the b1g needs to be thinking "remove iowa" from their rank(s)
I can see it being a factor when a key player is missing for a team lone loss during the season, and has returned to play for the remainder of the year. Especially when comparing multiple teams with one loss and trying to determine which loss is more severe. You may not like it, but that's just reality.
I really like the Alabama pick for us. I feel they are much more capable to beat a Clemson team than tOSU would be. And since Clemson is looking like by far and away the best team out of the three we could face, I'm happy. Would much rather face this Alabama team than Clemson..... Plus what could be better than beating TWO SEC teams?? Lol. And Lincoln beating Urban Myer and St Nick this season
That Bama team is a very slim candidate for the CFP championship game. I'm OK with OU (if they beat GA) playing Clemson, because I think that game has the best chance of being a really classic championship game.
All I got is that if one was to wear Hawkeye gear to any bar in Tuscalosa, one would be getting free drinks.
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