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OT: Minimum Wage Increase...

fortworth4ou2

Sooner signee
Jun 22, 2015
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to $15/HR in New York state effective 2019! Union supported Libs are celebrating. How will this effect the fast-food industry?

Boomer Sooner
 
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to $15/HR in New York state effective 2019! Union supported Libs are celebrating. How will this effect the fast-food industry?

Boomer Sooner
I support a min wage increase but not to $15/hr. I would say $9 to $10/hr would be more like it. I know you can only make so much money at an entry level job but there are many adults who rely on these jobs to make a living. You can't do that on $7.25
 
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These jobs were never intended to be jobs for life. If you choose to stay in those professions, distinguish yourself and advance on up into the hierarchy.

The result of this will be fewer employees, giving even worse service.
I don't think a Big Mac is worth what it is now and I know it isn't going to be worth 6 bucks.

Bottom line is, you don't like your position in life?
Get proactive, get more education, quit having babies you can't afford.
Holy crap, it isn't quantum physics for God sake!
 
These jobs were never intended to be jobs for life. If you choose to stay in those professions, distinguish yourself and advance on up into the hierarchy.

The result of this will be fewer employees, giving even worse service.
I don't think a Big Mac is worth what it is now and I know it isn't going to be worth 6 bucks.

Bottom line is, you don't like your position in life?
Get proactive, get more education, quit having babies you can't afford.
Holy crap, it isn't quantum physics for God sake!
You are painting a very broad brush fitty. In Oklahoma, you have many small towns will very little opportunity to advance to higher paying jobs. Many have to resort to a min wage job because there isn't much to choose from. I'm as conservative as anyone on this board but there does come a time where the min wage is going to have to be increased. When I was in hs, it was about $4 bucks. I suppose you were against raising it to $7.25
 
Kind of sums it up. I read an article the other day that says in Seattle where the min wage has been 15 for some time, workers are requesting less hours to stay in the zone so they can still collect benefits. Makes sense because as it states in this article:

"The single mom is better off earnings gross income of $29,000 with $57,327 in net income & benefits than to earn gross income of $69,000 with net income and benefits of $57,045."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-22/obamas-minimum-wage-utopia-just-hit-brick-wall
 
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BW, stop being obtuse.
I don't begrudge anyone 7 or 8 bucks per hour.
One should get that much for showing up on time, with all your faculties intact.
However, for this socialist government to double that amount just because it's the fashionable thing to do is just folly.

I'm gathering by your not so veiled outrage you are the head fries and salads man at uh...Wendy's?
 
BW, stop being obtuse.
I don't begrudge anyone 7 or 8 bucks per hour.
One should get that much for showing up on time, with all your faculties intact.
However, for this socialist government to double that amount just because it's the fashionable thing to do is just folly.

I'm gathering by your not so veiled outrage you are the head fries and salads man at uh...Wendy's?
Spare me the uppety attitude fitty. Raising the mw to 9 or 10 bucks isn't going to kill any business and it could help a lot of people. We shouldn't expect it to stay at $7.25 forever. And no, I don't work for min wage and luckily haven't had to since I was in high school. I do have sympathy for those that do though.
 
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You have sympathy...that's good.

Put your money where your mouth is and sponsor one of these down and out families.
Subsidize some loser that has over extended himself.

'Charity begins at home'.
Fitty I expected more from you than that. What does me or anyone else sponsoring someone have to do with a minimum wage increase? Nothing. Thats the same lame argument that pro abortion people use when attempting to justify abortion. Try to stay on topic. Why would you not be in favor of say a 1 or 2 dollar per hour increase in the mw?
 
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From the department of labor itself...in real 2012 dollars the minimum wage at 7.25 is still historically a pretty high amount. The most in real dollars the min wage ever equaled was a little over 10 dollars/hr in 1968. So yeah, the 15/hr is completely out of line with history.

I would support 15 per hour if all welfare programs were cut off entirely for anyone that has a job. Let's see where that puts unemployment.

http://www.dol.gov/minwage/chart1.htm
 
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From the department of labor itself...in real 2012 dollars the minimum wage at 7.25 is still historically a pretty high amount. The most in real dollars the min wage ever equaled was a little over 10 dollars/hr in 1968. So yeah, the 15/hr is completely out of line with history.

I would support 15 per hour if all welfare programs were cut off entirely for anyone that has a job. Let's see where that puts unemployment.

http://www.dol.gov/minwage/chart1.htm
I'm not supporting $15/hr absolute. In Oklahoma I agree that would be way too high. However, I think $8.50 or perhaps $9 would be a good idea.
 
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Some people are simply amazing with their heads in the sand. We have been shedding low wage jobs for decades. We are losing these jobs to countries with workers who are willing to work for pay grossly under what is the current minimum wage in the US. We are also losing these jobs to innovation that eliminate low paying jobs. Every time you ratchet up the wage scale you put more pressure on business. They streamline in order to take up the slack caused by higher labor costs. Then this socialist Administration opens the border to anyone who wants to come into this country. It is cheap labor that is coming across the border. They are taking these minimum wage jobs away from our young people who need these jobs for entry level into the work force.

Anyone who thinks you can raise the minimum wage without impacting the economic system absolutely has their head in the sand. It is only people who have never had to make a payroll that advocate government manipulating the cost of labor and other business inputs. This administrations EPA is issuing thousands of pages of new regulations that drive up the cost of doing business. Then we sit back and wonder why we have unemployment issues and families have problems balancing their monthly budgets.

Then we have literally millions of these illegals who work off the system on a cash basis. They don't pay income taxes, but they are eligible for all the federal government give away programs. In addition our state legislatures and the US Congress have for decades manipulate the tax laws to eliminate some from the bottom end of tax brackets. This eliminates whole groups of people who don't pay taxes,but use the free services.

Meanwhile, people who are in my kind of business endeavors have very little leeway in what we pay in taxes. I operate in an open environment where all of my business income is reported to the IRS via 1099s. I am so tired of paying taxes while others simply avoid it. My son is a banker and he sees Tax Returns every damn day. Most of the clients he deals with wind up with a net gain in income taxes ... they get more back from the IRS than they paid in to the system.

I think everyone in this country should have to pay a minimum of $1.00 to the IRS regardless of what they earn.
 
I'm not supporting $15/hr absolute. In Oklahoma I agree that would be way too high. However, I think $8.50 or perhaps $9 would be a good idea.

Barking, historically that would be at the tip top level of the minimum wage level over the entire history of the minimum wage. Not saying that is a bad thing and if we could get people off the welfare benefits (yes food stamps/medicaid/WIC/child care/Section 8 all that) then it would be WELL worth 15/hr because having govt re-distribute wealth is a massive waste of money and highly inefficient.

Unfortunately, there will always be those in America who do not have either the intellectual capability, the drive and/or the background to make anything but minimum wage. Just because you are poor doesn't mean you can't be happy. I've known a ton of people who never made a lot of money who were the best people I've ever known and were entirely happy with their lot in life.

People are way to focused on material things to produce happiness because that is how society measures your worth.
 
Some people are simply amazing with their heads in the sand. We have been shedding low wage jobs for decades. We are losing these jobs to countries with workers who are willing to work for pay grossly under what is the current minimum wage in the US. We are also losing these jobs to innovation that eliminate low paying jobs. Every time you ratchet up the wage scale you put more pressure on business. They streamline in order to take up the slack caused by higher labor costs. Then this socialist Administration opens the border to anyone who wants to come into this country. It is cheap labor that is coming across the border. They are taking these minimum wage jobs away from our young people who need these jobs for entry level into the work force.

Anyone who thinks you can raise the minimum wage without impacting the economic system absolutely has their head in the sand. It is only people who have never had to make a payroll that advocate government manipulating the cost of labor and other business inputs. This administrations EPA is issuing thousands of pages of new regulations that drive up the cost of doing business. Then we sit back and wonder why we have unemployment issues and families have problems balancing their monthly budgets.

Then we have literally millions of these illegals who work off the system on a cash basis. They don't pay income taxes, but they are eligible for all the federal government give away programs. In addition our state legislatures and the US Congress have for decades manipulate the tax laws to eliminate some from the bottom end of tax brackets. This eliminates whole groups of people who don't pay taxes,but use the free services.

Meanwhile, people who are in my kind of business endeavors have very little leeway in what we pay in taxes. I operate in an open environment where all of my business income is reported to the IRS via 1099s. I am so tired of paying taxes while others simply avoid it. My son is a banker and he sees Tax Returns every damn day. Most of the clients he deals with wind up with a net gain in income taxes ... they get more back from the IRS than they paid in to the system.

I think everyone in this country should have to pay a minimum of $1.00 to the IRS regardless of what they earn.

Roy, I couldn't agree more about paying taxes. I firmly believe that if you don't pay some income tax, you shouldn't have the right to vote because you have no skin in the game.
 
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Gotta remind the haters who begrudge poor people the minimum wage increases under discussion, the states and cities in which this is happening are a hell of a lot more expensive to live in than Oklahoma. Your $300,000 McMansion would cost $750,000-$900,000 in those areas. And pretty much everything else is proportionately more expensive.

Oh, and Jesus wants to thank you kindly Christians for looking out for the least of his children.
 
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Barking, historically that would be at the tip top level of the minimum wage level over the entire history of the minimum wage. Not saying that is a bad thing and if we could get people off the welfare benefits (yes food stamps/medicaid/WIC/child care/Section 8 all that) then it would be WELL worth 15/hr because having govt re-distribute wealth is a massive waste of money and highly inefficient.

Unfortunately, there will always be those in America who do not have either the intellectual capability, the drive and/or the background to make anything but minimum wage. Just because you are poor doesn't mean you can't be happy. I've known a ton of people who never made a lot of money who were the best people I've ever known and were entirely happy with their lot in life.

People are way to focused on material things to produce happiness because that is how society measures your worth.
Absolute, making a $9/hr min wage would certainly not classify anyone any differently. I realize that there is a place for lower paying/min wage jobs. However, at this point, I just don't think $7.25/hr is sufficient. If an employer can't swing another $1 an hour then they must not be much of a business.

Fitty, classifying someone in their 30's that makes min wage as a loser is simply ignorant on your part. Apparently you have never been an innocent victim of life circumstances beyond your control. Your income also certainly doesn't define anyone as a person. I know a few lawyers and bankers that seem to be much more of a loser than many poor folks. Now step down off your imaginary pedestal
 
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Gotta remind the haters who begrudge poor people the minimum wage increases under discussion, the states and cities in which this is happening are a hell of a lot more expensive to live in than Oklahoma. Your $300,000 McMansion would cost $750,000-$900,000 in those areas. And pretty much everything else is proportionately more expensive.

Oh, and Jesus wants to thank you kindly Christians for looking out for the least of his children.

No one is begrudging anyone anything. If you add up what a person making 29k actually makes after all the benefits...it's about $57,327 whereas someone grossing 69k actually nets $57,045. Tell us again how poor those people are? Also, how is it they pay in (in a lot of cases that I've personally witnessed) ZERO federal tax dollars and get a REFUND of 5k or so? Why doesn't anyone feel sorry for the poor person on the cusp making 40k per year and ineligible for any of these benefits? Those are the poor bastards that are really taking in the proverbial ass.

If someone is making 29k per year and living in a mud hut then they are too lazy to go get the benefits they are "entitled" to.

As I said, let's push it up to $15/hr and do away with all social programs for anyone having a job. Can we do that? If so...I'm in.
 
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Gotta remind the haters who begrudge poor people the minimum wage increases under discussion, the states and cities in which this is happening are a hell of a lot more expensive to live in than Oklahoma. Your $300,000 McMansion would cost $750,000-$900,000 in those areas. And pretty much everything else is proportionately more expensive.

Oh, and Jesus wants to thank you kindly Christians for looking out for the least of his children.
DD,

You seem to have a misguided sense of "haters". Have you ever done Social Work? Those hard working, tax paying "haters" are the ones providing for "the least of his children".

Before becoming a teacher, I was a Social Worker for the state of Texas within the Department of Human Services. I was in that capacity for the better part of a decade. Those children and their families received financial assistance from the state that far exceeded what my family - and other lower middle income families - could afford on their own at the time who weren't eligible for such services.

Back then, a family of 4 earning $20,000/yr or less used to receive $500+/mo in food stamps. I'm sure it's a lot more now than a couple decades ago. When's the last time you spent that much/mo or more on groceries? And, if you think they don't eat well, just stand behind such a family in the check out line at any grocery store and observe what they're buying with their government card ( used to be the Lone Star card in Texas). Steaks and food stuff that my family could not afford on our rather meager - but earned and taxed - income budget.

Such families were eligible for, in most cases, free healthcare (or highly subsidized at the worse). I earned a little more than 30k/yr then and my family did not qualify for such economic relief. We managed but it was not easy.

Other assistance such as TANF (monthly income - an amount that exceeded my personal end-of-the-month discretionary income), WIC, phone service, employment training programs, Section 8 Housing, utility assistance, tax breaks, etc were made available to those folks that were not available to me and mine. When you factor in their assistance with their "reported" income, their total monthly financial well-being exceeded that of my family.

Not saying these folks had/have it easy, but they made ends meet better than my family on our earnings. There are those who say welfare families can't make a living on State and Federal assistance. I saw differently. In fact, I saw families and even their subsequent generation continuing on the dole and getting by quite well through these programs. The ones getting truly hurt were the families making barely above the monthly income eligibility limits resulting in their inability to qualify for such services. They were truly the working poor.

A rise in the minimum wage that was just passed with the help of labor unions and Liberal policies will probably result in a rise in unemployment for such folks insuring their continuance and even greater dependence on such wealth redistribution programs. It's the continuation of financial slavery for those families and most likely their subsequent generation(s).

Boomer Sooner
 
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DD,

You seem to have a misguided sense of "haters". Have you ever done Social Work? Those hard working, tax paying "haters" are the ones providing for "the least of his children".

Before becoming a teacher, I was a Social Worker for the state of Texas within the Department of Human Services. I was in that capacity for the better part of a decade. Those children and their families received financial assistance from the state that far exceeded what my family - and other lower middle income families - could afford on their own at the time who weren't eligible for such services.

Back then, a family of 4 earning $20,000/yr or less used to receive $500+/mo in food stamps. I'm sure it's a lot more now than a couple decades ago. When's the last time you spent that much/mo or more on groceries? And, if you think they don't eat well, just stand behind such a family in the check out line at any grocery store and observe what they're buying with their government card ( used to be the Lone Star card in Texas). Steaks and food stuff that my family could not afford on our rather meager - but earned and taxed - income budget.

Such families were eligible for, in most cases, free healthcare (or highly subsidized at the worse). I earned a little more than 30k/yr then and my family did not qualify for such economic relief. We managed but it was not easy.

Other assistance such as TANF (monthly income - an amount that exceeded my personal end-of-the-month discretionary income), WIC, phone service, employment training programs, Section 8 Housing, utility assistance, tax breaks, etc were made available to those folks that were not available to me and mine. When you factor in their assistance with their "reported" income, their total monthly financial well-being exceeded that of my family.

Not saying these folks had/have it easy, but they made ends meet better than my family on our earnings. There are those who say welfare families can't make a living on State and Federal assistance. I saw differently. In fact, I saw families and even their subsequent generation continuing on the dole and getting by quite well through these programs. The ones getting truly hurt were the families making barely above the monthly income eligibility limits resulting in their inability to qualify for such services. They were truly the working poor.

A rise in the minimum wage that was just passed with the help of labor unions and Liberal policies will probably result in a rise in unemployment for such folks insuring their continuance and even greater dependence on such wealth redistribution programs. It's the continuation of financial slavery for those families and most likely their subsequent generation(s).

Boomer Sooner
It all depends on the size of the family fort. A single mother with no children living at home, making $8 or 9$ bucks an hour doesn't get squat. A raise in the min wage would help those ones out there that are just hard working people and not looking for any hand outs.
 
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DD,
Before becoming a teacher,
Boomer Sooner

Just wait until us engineers and smart entrepreneurs automate everything on Earth including teaching. There will be a handful of people doing R&M on the machines and programming, a smaller handful collecting the profits. The rest of you's will be standing around waiting for the crumbs to drop. What then?

Tongue in cheek, of course. Rhetoric at its best.

The answer is somewhere between both sides, just like any political argument that incites fervor in both sides. There are always smart people on both sides of the argument.

Myself, I believe that there is real disproportionate wealth and it's increasing. SinceFitty's response of bettering yourself if you don't like your lot in life makes sense. It's true to a degree. But if populations grow and top jobs recede, then what? It's easy for people that grew up in an age where the jobs were ripe for the picking to carry tough love. That reality is long gone and getting worse..

IIRC, 80+% of fast food jobs were held by high school aged kids living at home with mom and dad in the 80s. Today, more than 50% of the fast food employees are married and live on their own. Another significant portion have children at home. They should just better themselves and get one of those empty, high-paying jobs out there right?

In the 70s, the single income family made more inflation adjusted income than today's dual income family! Does that mean times are harder? Less wealth on Earth? Of course not. Times are better than they've ever been (caloric affordability and "luxury" versus work week). The problem exists in the fact that the quality of life is improving all over the globe. But people that have been around for awhile find it easy to say, "if I could do it back then, you can do it now too." But that's not the point of humanity. It's to continue the improvement of life. It's not to meet the status quo year in and year out.

People expecting improvement is human nature. Nobody wants what their mom and dad had. They want a better life, and their mom and dad should want a better life for them too.

I can go to a bar at night, and if I want to be served by the bartender on a regular basis, I'm expected to tip them a $1 on a $10-15 order of a couple beers for me and friends. They do nothing than just reach down in a well and pick up 3 beers for me. If I tip a McDonald's employee on a $15 food order for me and my kid, they fear that their employer will fire them for accepting the tip --- yet they did more for me and were infinitely nicer to me than that jackass bartender.
If everyone threw down an extra $1 on their food order at McDonald's (an amount mostly inconsequential to us), those workers might be able to afford daycare and healthcare for their children which has proven time and time again to reduce crime and increase education. But other people want to just point the finger at the outliers that abuse and scam. They exist. They always will. If they get your gourd, you're in for a long, miserable life.
 
It all depends on the size of the family fort. A single mother with no children living at home, making $8 or 9$ bucks an hour doesn't get squat. A raise in the min wage would help those ones out there that are just hard working people and not looking for any hand outs.
In that case, what good is served if she becomes unemployed as a result of this mw enactment?

She may need to get a second or third job - perhaps part-time jobs - to better make ends meet. That's the way it was before '64. I've worked two jobs at a time in my past. In your scenario, she only has to take care of herself.

It's not mine or your responsibility to make her decisions in that situation. But, as soon as she receives government assistance (through our taxes) , I should have a say in the decisions she makes. I'm investing in her so I should have some control in that situation.

I know, that wouldn't work. Just venting.

Boomer Sooner
 
Many businesses, especially small business and the restaurant business, operate at a thin margin. An arbitrary increase in wages will cause the business to increase prices or cut back costs to maintain the slim margin. That margin is what the owner has to live on and invest into the business. Democrats would be pleased to watch the guys and gals who own businesses go broke while "lifting" the low skilled out of poverty. Nobody will be lifted out of poverty by an increase in minimum wage but the increase can sure increase poverty.

I punched out on giving a shit about these career welfare scammers when I heard a lady tell the man that she was with that she wishes she could get back on food stamps because pistachios were too expensive to consider buying with her own money.
 
In that case, what good is served if she becomes unemployed as a result of this mw enactment?

She may need to get a second or third job - perhaps part-time jobs - to better make ends meet. That's the way it was before '64. I've worked two jobs at a time in my past. In your scenario, she only has to take care of herself.

It's not mine or your responsibility to make her decisions in that situation. But, as soon as she receives government assistance (through our taxes) , I should have a say in the decisions she makes. I'm investing in her so I should have some control in that situation.

I know, that wouldn't work. Just venting.

Boomer Sooner
My point is that some people do take advantage of the system, but there are others that could honestly benefit from just a small increase. There is no easy solution but I know we can't expect people to work for $7 bucks an hour forever. Eventually it will have to be raised
 
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They already tried this at Carl's Jr......didn't work

Then they failed. Either with implementation or software. Carl Jr will not be the standard of acceptance of what will and/or will not be accepted with technology in fast food. We as a public won't like it, but it'll continue.

Walmart, Home Depot are prime examples. We as a people didn't like self checkout 10 yrs ago but they are still there and now have even more. Today at Kroger, there was 10 self checkouts. That's nine replaced employees as one employee now handles nine lines of customers with groceries. Pay her $15 / hr and their still saving money. Big money.
 
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Then they failed. Either with implementation or software. Carl Jr will not be the standard of acceptance of what will and/or will not be accepted with technology in fast food. We as a public won't like it, but it'll continue.

Walmart, Home Depot are prime examples. We as a people didn't like self checkout 10 yrs ago but they are still there and now have even more. Today at Kroger, there was 10 self checkouts. That's nine replaced employees as one employee now handles nine lines of customers with groceries. Pay her $15 / hr and their still saving money. Big money.
Maybe it works better in a retail situation. People wanna get in and get out without much hassle. In a restaurant, I think people like more personal attention when ordering a meal.
 
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